Wrecked Physically and Financially to the Top 1% of Mortgage Originators with Industry Veteran Aaron Chapman
Episode Details
Transcript
In August of 2008, Aaron Chapman’s life was turned upside down. At that time, he was doing well in his career, and life was good. However, that all changed in an instant when Aaron was caught in a motorcycle accident that put him in a severe medical condition. Aaron went through years of rehabilitation, eventually regaining his ability to walk. Aaron has also dealt with massive financial struggles but always displayed the tenacity and perseverance to emerge and come back stronger. Aaron’s story is the perfect case study for From Adversity to Abundance.
Aaron Chapman is an expert in residential real estate investing; with vast experience works as a real estate investor and a mortgage lender. Aaron, a veteran in the finance industry since 1997, his expertise is in the complicated. Aaron is ranked in the top 1% in an industry of over 300,000 licensed loan originators after closing more than 100 transactions per month. Aaron is that battle-worn partner every real estate entrepreneur needs to walk thru the tough parts of building a real estate business.
Aaron walks Jamie through a roller coaster ride as he describes his challenges and how he overcame them, currently leading a team of 32 people and becoming the best in his field.
“Embrace the time you get the shit kicked out of you.”
“You're destined to take a beating to learn what you need to learn.”
Tune in as Aaron and Jamie talk about:
· Who Aaron Chapman is today and the services his company provides.
· His life with a wife and an infant but without a job.
· How he became a telemarketer in December 1997.
· In 2008, Aaron was caught in a motorcycle accident and had a serious medical ailment.
· He spent a decade of his life trying to be fully recovered.
· Aaron arose from a huge debt he had.
· His life was reset from a business, health, and family perspective.
· Rising up the rankings after being left by his business partner.
· Lessons in forming a partnership.
· Factors resulting in the growth of a business.
· Worrying about what people think of you.
· How Aaron serves others.
· Lessons from all the challenges he faced.
Books and Resources
Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill
The Master Key System by Charles F. Haanel
Connect with Aaron
YOUTUBE https://www.youtube.com/@AaronChapmanSNMC
WEBSITE: https://www.aaronbchapman.com/
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronbchapman/
FACEBOOK: https://facebook.com/aaronchapmannjo
Haven Financial:
https://www.myfinancialhaven.com/jamiebateman/
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Speaker 2
00:00
This episode is sponsored by the Integrity income fund which is managed by yours truly and Mighty Med. Labrador lending, the Integrity income fund is for accredited investors. It aims to pay an eight percent preferred return and an 8.5% preferred return for early investors. It aims to pay out monthly distributions. There's a 25 thousand dollar minimum and only a one-year lockup. If you are an accredited investor and you're looking to get away from Wall Street, letting looking to beat inflation and looking for an asset class that is backed by hard physical real estate, then look no further than the Integrity income fund. Check it out at Labrador lending.com. What's up, everybody? This is Jamie with the form adversity to abundance podcast. And man, this was I know I say this every time but this was a fantastic episode. I got the opportunity to chat with Aaron Chapman. Aaron is a licensed loan officer in Arizona, who does a ton of business across the country. He works a lot with Real Estate, Investors and man, we talked a lot about Financial challenges, when he found himself without any money, but barely able to even afford diapers or gas, when he had a wife and a, an infant. And then, we also talked about His motorcycle accident that left him lying on the road, you know, for dead basically not to be overly dramatic, but he had a long battle, I think was like a year and a half to get back to some level of normalcy and then even, you know, I think he referenced a nine or ten-year kind of struggle to get back all the way back and physically that is. And obviously there's A lot to unpack there. But and then also additional Financial struggles that were massive, which were related to the, or the result of his motorcycle accident. So, he went from, he's had some real highs and lows with regard to Financial Security, I guess. And, and abundance, Financial abundance, and financial adversity, as well as health challenges, massive, health challenges, I think he's 48 years old down, says, he's in the best shape. It feels great. He's doing great now. And.
Speaker 1
02:39
This one, he just drops.
Speaker 2
02:42
I am going to have to listen to this one again because he drops a ton of Truth bombs. He's there. He's just a full of energy and full of Knowledge full of passion. He's clearly a grounded individual who has his principles extremely hard worker and it was just doing some awesome things, really a unique individual. Cool. And it's hard for me to have to convey how to live life to the sodas. So we are all guaranteed. How will we handle the adversity? It out. Join us to be moved by every day, people who have turned poverty and prosperity, and weakness into wealth Be Inspired as these relatable Heroes. Get vulnerable and former counterintelligence investigator Jamie Bateman puts his interviewing skills to the test, restore your faith in humanity as you experience. True Cinderella stories of Average people turning surreal struggle and deep despair into booming, businesses and financial Fortune. Take ownership of the life. You are destined to live and turn your adversity into abundance. Welcome everybody, to another episode of the form adversity, to abundance podcast. I am your host Jamie Bateman, and I am super pumps today to be joined by Aaron Chapman of security. Excuse me, Security, National Mortgage Company. Aaron, how you do today doing really? Really well, Jamie, how are you doing brother doing great? It's a little cold here in Maryland, but that's what you get in November. So I mean, there's.
Speaker 1
04:12
Almost a little cold everywhere there was ice on the car this morning, so, there you go. Okay. You look forward to that though man. We're so yeah we are spoiled when we get a cold. Do we love it. Will go walk around on it with no shirts on in this weather.
Speaker 2
04:26
Definitely. Yeah, I was actually in Scottsdale, I don't know how far that is from you, but probably a couple of months ago for a mastermind, those pretty neat. And the I know that people make fun of people when they say dry heat is just dry heat. Well, dry heat is not as bad as humid heat and my opinion, but.
Speaker 1
04:47
Then agree with that. In fact, some of the people from that Mastermind. I hook up with, when they come into town, I used to be part of it. But yeah. Somebody's, you know, they're coming to town. It's 15 minutes from my house to go up there and hang out and got a good time. But, you know, I do travel a lot. So I get out to the South and the Midwest during the summer and you guys can have that crap. I mean, I have had some people say, where would you live at? Sometimes you're sick. I might stay in Arizona during the summer time, because it's not only it's tolerable, but It's not so much. The heat is the bugs psyche. That the.
Speaker 2
05:20
Bugs you guys have over? Yes. Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1
05:23
On the East Coast already been saved. Those things that hunt you down in Arizona. They run from you. There they your their prey?
Speaker 2
05:31
Yeah, we have had a serious mosquito problem this year. But so for our listeners out there who have not heard of you Erin, could you give us kind of overview of who you are today? What's, what do you have going on today with you, your family, your business? Who are you And then we will jump back into your backstory?
Speaker 1
05:49
So I am the in the mortgage industry. I focus in the conventional lending space because it's there's one point four million people, United States that do this job and I start focusing on the real estate investor back in 2003. So now, right now I am ranked in the top 10 in the United States, for amount of transactions that I closed, remember right? Number one in Arizona, according to the mode X, who tracks. All this stuff? I have got four kids. Most three of them are married. My youngest is 16. Teen wife of 26 years and I have been walking around on this rock since 1974 and I have got a background of cattle ranching heavy equipment. Mining welding in the oil fields and then stumbled my way into or driving truck and stuff like that and stuff on my way into the mortgage industry. 1997. And here, I have just stubbornly kept trying to work it out after problem. After problem, after failure to appoint Now, read a pretty remarkable spot but does it And I don't have another a****** from coming down the pass.
Speaker 2
06:49
Now, that's a great, great synopsis and great way to put it. Yeah. So before we get into some of the adversity that you have faced and overcome, what is your, what is your business look like today?
Speaker 1
07:02
Today, you know, being the fact that word conventional lending for Real Estate Investors. It's still very, very good. Comparatively speaking, right? The industry as a whole is down 65%. I just ran the numbers on my team. At the, as of the end of October, we were down, twenty-six. Percent. So, significant difference from what's going on in our industry doesn't mean that we're not due for something to come to keep beating us up because it is getting increasingly hard to keep business coming in because there's a lot of fear out there but the more that you can help Real Estate Investors understand it. This is a time that you want to dig in because this is when other people walk away from amazing deals because there's a lot of amazing videos out there. Still, awesome deals. The problem is we have sold the s*** way to wrong for too long because it was so, Easy to make any deal work because of cash return metrics since 2000, really 10 up, until now that doesn't work so well. So they're having a hard time selling using the exact same sales pitch because that was the easiest sales pitch in the world. Now, it shouldn't have ever been a pitch. You should always been analyzing the deal from the depth of it and then the greatest asset in any transaction is the leverage. And if you can elaborate 30 freaking years, it's going to perform.
Speaker 2
08:15
Period unless You bought a piece of crap that's just eating you alive. Yeah. Now that's really good. Yeah, I love single-family rentals. We have got a portfolio in Maryland and Florida and like I mentioned before we hit record I am mostly focused on mortgage notes today that I will say. The Leverage is one of those things about rentals that it's just not there with mortgage notes that you know, as far as buying the note itself, it's you can, you can do it, you can make it work, and that's a whole different Rabbit Trail, but it's much. Easier to walk into a bank and say, Hey I want to, you know, but or contact you and say hey I want to buy the single family rental and make the numbers work than it is to do that with a the purchase of a mortgage note. But and you mentioned before, we hit record that your team is 30. Some individuals, is that.
Speaker 1
09:03
Right? 32 staff members to achieve what I have achieved as far as many transactions, that we do. A lot of times in the industry, will find that a person like myself a licensed loan originator have like six or eight more licenses. Loan Originators underneath them, out ferreting out business and bring it in and putting under that person's name. That's not how I would. I am the only licensed loan originator, Mighty but I have all operators and staff put in place, and we put them in, and we're actually rewriting our operational procedures as I speak because now the things will slow down a bit. I am able to really tighten stuff that I am going to do for the last three years, and I was it the CEO of Toyota back in the 70s referred to something, as String Theory, not quantum physics. This had to do with his business. He said Toyota is like a stream bed. And you can flow. Only so much water down your stream bed, but naturally you would have big rocks appear. You would have dips, you'd have valleys, you have pumps in it, and it would impede the flow of the water and your stream bed, when it impedes that it would overflow the banks and you would lose that forever. So what you need to do, periodically is, damn it up. Bring the water level down, we can see all these imperfections are and clean it out. I couldn't do that for last 4 years. I kept adding and band-aiding to make the business and doing everything on the Fly and push putting more hours and more Or overtime in now the business slowed itself down because if I quite dammed up before it would cut new stream, beds for other people to capitalize. I couldn't let that happen now. Business has slowed it down enough for, I can go in and dig all stuff out. So, I spent an enormous amount of money getting consultants in here, going through this whole thing paying hours for people to look at this and really, really dive into it. So when things open back up and our water levels come up even higher, we will be able to do faster than anybody else in the industry. So I am excited about the slow down. I am excited.
Speaker 2
10:46
What I have been.
Speaker 1
10:46
Wanting to do my team's freaking out, right? You wrong. There's a little bit freaked out back there because there's, I have got an enormous expense without enough coming in to really handle it. But I am hanging on by the skin of my.
Speaker 2
10:59
Ass, that s.
Speaker 1
11:01
So when everybody else is getting ready to throw their hands up, I am still here, and we're going Lion's, Share. Well.
Speaker 2
11:07
Unlike you already alluded to you haven't you didn't start this two or three years ago. So you know, I am sure there will be new challenges and everything but you have got the experience to Into the Storm for sure. So let us dive into your background. I know the reason I reached out to you was I read a passage in a book that I obtained it, that, that Mastermind actually. And, and you talk to you, wrote part of this book and you, you talked about a motorcycle incident. So I don't know if you want to start there or before that, but I would love to touch on that a little bit and kind of, you know if we can focus on some of the adversity that surrounded that and pull out some lessons. And then we will move closer back to you today. That would be great.
Speaker 1
11:51
Sure. Yeah I don't mind talking about. That was sort of fact let me take it back just a little bit. Sure did kind of give a little bit more color to the background going into that, you know, I spent my high school years on a cattle ranch, right? Very, very simple business plan. When you're talking about dealing with that kind of stuff and developing cattle, and selling it for beef. And then from there, went to the oil fields of Wyoming from their drove truck, ran heavy equipment. I found myself in the minds of Northern New Mexico with my dad and it was awesome by Family sold the ranch is Partnerships went bad. And, you know, I have seen bad Partnerships and it was ugly. So well, when the mines the my job is when the best ever had your several hundred feet underground. You're drilling your playing with explosives, it was a great job running, heavy equipment, loved every bit of it. They start shutting down the project. Well I had a great resume anything I have a problem getting a job. When I came back to the Phoenix Valley from Northern New Mexico, I had a wife and infant son here, come back and forth every 13 shifts. I couldn't find it. Save my life. I kept getting turned down for opportunity after opportunity, because I was what they kept calling overqualified. I didn't understand this. That guy can do the job or I couldn't but in this situation, they're telling me I couldn't do it because they were, I know, now why I am over qualified as a business owner that there are going to go somewhere else. I remember going to get, I was completely out of money. My wife gave me a coupon for free diapers because we're completely broke and can't even afford diapers. I was on my way to another place to drive truck to haul landscape rock. For 10 bucks. An hour went in there. That interviewed shot down again, as I am driving away wiping tears. From my eyes, I couldn't believe I was in this financial position. I am driving to a grocery store. My gas light comes on my truck again. Another punch in the face, pulled up to the gas pump outside of grocery store. The only form of payment I had been a debit card. Swipe it got a decline. I mean, I said a prayer when I swipe that thing in my prayer, I thought was answered. I right? Right. Kind of found some change. Then I started walking that parking lot and I found enough change in what felt like Couple hours to get two gallons of gas, that was back when people carry change and that can get 80 some odd, right? So I don't know how that in work. Today, I went in there with my coupon, got my diapers. And as I am coming out, I am trying to avoid eye contact with anybody because it just felt really, really. I felt really s*****. I mean, the one I had to get a coupon for free. As I am walking out, a person recognized me and I tried to avoid him, but he ran me down. Ask me how things were explained, the same thing. He said, let us go to dinner with you. I can't afford dinner. There's no, I got a gift certificate. If get to Red Lobster from a client. So it turns out he used to be the guy who did all the schedule. Where can I dug swimming pools. And now he was in the mortgage industry, he took me to dinner me and my wife. He sure this didn't just industry with me sleepy a business card for a branch manager. And a broker shop, I made the call and when I went to go meet with my kind of fed off of my hair, I shaved, my mom, bought me some businesses like clothes, so I look like a perfect my in there, and I started as a telemarketer in December of 1997 and that's a miserable way to start in his industry. But A job back to driving truck to Sacramento back. Then running heavy equipment. Again, I work two jobs for a year before the rates went down below 7% on owner-occupied and I could replace my income when I did that. You know it started to work and I got could make a really good living and then 2008 happened, I was doing really, really well coming up to that when going Mach 2 of my scalp on fire again, working together, beeping four hours, a night to try and keep things moving. I decided jump on the bike spends, three days, riding through New Mexico. Clear my head. I love the reserve X Korea. A lot of wind erodes. The destination was the ride 15 minutes into that ride. I was doing 70 plus miles an hour. A kid came in to me, push me in another car. I hit the throttle get away from, so I am thinking as 80 plus. When I took that tumble, and I went skidded to a stop, it's if I end up at 17, broken bones, a collapsed, right lung and the memories, only lasted three minutes. So I don't know if you ever been on. In August, but I laid on the payment on August 8th of 2008. It's always been my lucky number. So indicates I laid on that pavement at 12:24 in the afternoon I baked for about 20 minutes till paramedics, got there, because the heavy three-day weekend traffic and first memory that comes to me was waking up in the hospital bed that night 12 hours later asking where I was at what had happened for the had to be the hundredth time. My wife was repeating into finally stuck with it hurt with curd but intermittent memories of things. So it was learning how to walk. Again, had to resuscitate my breathing, but then the worst of it all is, you know, after all that process of learning how to walk. Again, was training my brain on how to remember things because I went. It would pinwheel all the time. So what I did was I carried a notepad with me. And I had to people coming to the entire industry was fragmented all the people. Since with were out, nobody was left. Except for two people, my mom, Chapman, who's a realtor here, in Arizona, still Another world. Carolyn Derby who I think she still cranking out there. I just don't like nurse and what they do is they call me up. They give me a referral and then call me back. Five minutes later. Hey, did you call that person? I would be like, what person saying, get your pad, get your paper and then have him, and they're very patient with me. And then I call these people and take notes. And.
Speaker 2
17:07
If I look on my pad and there.
Speaker 1
17:09
Was a nun crossed out thing I know to call that person, there was a lot of people, I would call because I failed across town. So hey I am Eric Chapman. Man so-and-so. Gave me a name said yeah, we just talked. Wow.
Speaker 2
17:19
Like really, that is what you talked.
Speaker 1
17:20
About and they're like, are you kidding me? I am like, let me just explain and there's a lot of people that, you know, they're done walk away, but is amazing. How many have patience for me and help me so by the grace of God, and by the grace of others, was able to reason that my memory back, I basically trained it back myself with other people's help and I learned how to walk again. And once I learned how to walk again, I learned how to hike again. I learned how to run again. Then I went into the to the mountains of the superstitions. I Came a technical rescue for the sheriff's office for nine years. I led their Rescue Unit which is all ropes and high angle and helicopters and that kind of stuff until it just got to where they didn't need us as much in the works. They got more equipment and more funding and so tired. After nine years of absolute amazing badass experiences out there, where it was my life, my life, and other people's lives are on the line a lot and it was great. I had a really good time and.
Speaker 2
18:11
I feel like there's we have got about 45, you know, episodes. In what you just shared. That's amazing. It's crazy, scary, awful, amazing. I mean, and this is the I have said this on other episodes. The risk we run into in this with my show frankly is, oh yeah, we just glossed right over all these, you know, massive challenges that people go through, and we don't want to make it sound like, you know, like it was easier or quick and painless at all but obviously we, you know, we can't focus on all the details, but As far as like, how much time are we talking between that the accident and when you were kind of back to 100%. So that.
Speaker 1
18:55
Was you see here, the accident was August 8th and I didn't start with the sheriff's office till the end of 2009. So it was late 2009 when I started there and then it was about a year of K back and I wasn't even really back. I mean, I will just be honest. The thing is, I was, I am so always driven to do, do, do. Umm, but I didn't enjoy laying there and healing and that's that was a problem, you know, to them actually did more damage to myself than I really needed to. It took me 10 years to get really rehabilitated back together to honor to get because of all the soft tissue damage that I didn't allow time to heal and not until literally this last year. Was I able to back to a point of really physically be able to do any damn thing I want right now? You know, my body was not. I have torn both shoulders since then I have had Both shoulders, repaired, all this crap, because I push things too hard, and I didn't allow things to heal 282. Now, I am in some, of the best shape I have ever been. I can do any damn thing I want physically and I feel awesome, but I am 48 years old, right? And I am glad I am on down stroke, but I am going to take care of it. I am never going to heal again. I have broken 56 bones in my life, I spend nearly a decade of my life and even in recovery, and I am done with all that crap. A lot of soft tissue damage, a lot of joint. Damn, all kinds. Crap, I have done.
Speaker 2
20:17
It done with that, got it. No. It's that's, that's crazy. So and you said so the what was your business looking? Like at that point when you had the accident.
Speaker 1
20:26
It was good. I was still decent six figures. I was everything was doing well but it's like the whole world came to a halt right around the same time that I went into the hospital is really kind of crazy, but people were doing, okay. And then everybody got fragment. So sure me. It was an absolute blessing because think about this during that period of time, a lot of people are losing their homes. They're Foreclosure having to fit having to go into bankruptcy. Well, I like matter that it's tell you, I went into that 190 pounds, maybe 10% body fat. I got wheeled out a few weeks later at 156 pounds. It just completely just. I cannibalized my body to heal. When I came back out of there, everything was obliterated and the phone wouldn't stop. I was, how had houses. There were a bunch of houses in time that were just way underwater, everything that I had in the market was gone. I went in worth about You know, some are close to about three million dollars, and I was a negative net worth of 1.5 million when I wheeled out in that wheelchair. So when the, when the creditors were falling, I had a great story to build offers. Hey, what's your fax number? I would facts in my just my first weeks, medical bill does the first week 1.7 million dollars, the total value of all my expenses in the hospital for that couple weeks that was there was over and over almost three million bucks. So when Robins that on people they backed up real quick and it's awesome how the curves to hey what can we do for you? And so, I was able to negotiate with people. I had a certain amount of money left, that was it, that was squirreled away. And so I talked to every creditor to take. This is what I have. Will you take it? And I worked it out with every single one where they're all willing to take a certain amount. I paid them all off and they're gone. I went from massive, credit card debt to nothing. I went from being able to, I had to get rid of a bunch of cars. I had one left, actually, they too left. So we can drive or whatever and people backed up off, we'd let me keep my house. Let me keep my two cars. I started over not quite as 0, but I am pretty freaking close, right? So it's good to be able to go from needing eighteen thousand dollars a month just to exist that could exist on nothing. So now I live that same life, I could really exist on a house payment and that's it. Everything else will pay for. I make her want me to be way, way more money than I ever did and I don't have as much my best as s*** ton. So I have a scattered all over the market right now is having its way with it but sure. Smart Dude, I could literally live take my Jeep in my camp trailer and I would be.
Speaker 2
22:49
Happy now. That's, that's awesome. So it was primarily the medical bills that led to the financial challenges that along with the fact that your business, you know, essentially dried up at that briefly. At least is the dried up the extreme.
Speaker 1
23:05
Yet that I had because I was living, like an idiot because I had heard what great five years in the industry. It's only up from there. When I hit five years, I was making like three hundred grand of my gets up from here. Here, I can get stupid and I did get stupid 118 thousand dollars a month just to break, even every month is where I was at and it was I didn't make any sense whatsoever. How is operating sure? So for me at that point it was the debt. It was the loss of income. It was a complete reset of the entire industry because sitting at, and so I had to come back start over and building new contacts, new business, but I did anything eating at me financially. It was Probably one of the best thing that could have ever happened because everybody else was on payment plans. They were on bankruptcy. All that crap. Everybody's white hands of me saying this guy we can't mess with because you're not gonna get anything out of them. Sure, looks so bad on paper. Got it. Working it. Literally, the best thing could happen to me. It was a blessing. Well, everybody else is fighting with their creditors. I am like, bam. Trump card bit.
Speaker 2
24:10
Sure. Now, that makes a lot of sense, so hateful for years. Yeah, no, I absolutely. Lately so 2008-2009. Essentially was a complete reset for you from many perspectives from a business standpoint from a health standpoint. Sounds like you were already married and had some children but so maybe not so much from a family standpoint. But in a lot of ways that period of time was a complete reset for you, is that fair to say true and it was a.
Speaker 1
24:37
Reset in the Family Stone standpoint because I had four kids and my youngest was about two years old, who is now 16 and do it. I would I will admit I wasn't the greatest spouse of the greatest father at that time. I was so focused on everything else and things that when you're laying in that bed and you can hit in other people do things for you. In person who's coming around and who's putting their energy into you start to get to know us, like, wait a minute, who are.
Speaker 2
25:02
These people? I think I like them and then you have got your will jumped up and does something.
Speaker 1
25:07
Really, really cool. And really funny? And you laugh about it and then it hit you in Psych. I will never see that again. That moments gone, how many moments have missed now? Does it mean I have like done an about-face on those amazing attentive? Father, and husband will not, I still gotta drive around, I got to build this but I have a very good friend of mine, Allenstown Juniors, got a phenomenal book out there, look him up, but he likes to say be where your feet are and I have found some becoming better and better being where my feet are sure is scattered on my stress all over the place. But I am actually building My business to allow me the opportunity present where I am at and all the people that worked on me.
Speaker 2
25:47
It's really good. Yeah I think a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with that and just you know just type A people in general, not just entrepreneurs but anybody who's always pushing. It's like you're always getting the next goal. The next thing and you never take the time to stop and appreciate where you are now and it sounds like you have liked you're saying you have built that into your schedule in your business now or at least you're working at. That.
Speaker 1
26:10
Better at it. Let us You're not going far from here. I have got it. My first grandkid. She's I think 12 weeks old now. So I am starting to see some of the things that you missed it, it's amazing. It's amazing to see. I have got her husband lived. Next door, it's a great life. So cool. So.
Speaker 2
26:26
Yeah, like we said, you're not looking for the adversity that you have been through. You're not looking for that to repeat itself, of course, but a lot it sounds like you have got your priorities were really well-defined coming out of that and you have intent, you know, built your life in an intentional way. After that motorcycle in the accident and the ensuing kind of rehab. And so now you mentioned to me something about, I think 2015 it can you walk us through 2009? From 2009 up to today and touch on some of the challenges you have had during that period? So.
Speaker 1
27:01
What how it came out of that, right? It's, you know, I work for Country at the time, the Bank of America took over all, I was coming back, and we will just let me tell you a going to work for Bank of America and Aaron Chapman's opinions like serving time for I didn't do. But at the time, I had a client come across, it was going to buy what they call an FHA flip. You buy the house, whoever we had, they have owned it less than 90 days. And FHA, wouldn't would let that happen Bank of America wouldn't. So I left, I took that with me to another company. Another person within the office that make Mark said, hey, I have the exact same thing when I flip it to you. So I took it and the other companies said they do it. I called the seller on it, which happened to be the same seller on both properties. Said, I am going to go ahead and I got these deals. I am gonna get these done this and well, can you do a fakie flip? And I say, yeah, I can they said, well everybody says that and nobody actually does. Well, I believe it happens. I closed that deal within, 30 days both of them. At the same time, they call myself. You got to come to our office. So I came to the office to introduce me entire staff. They say, every person talks to him before except a contract period, what the same time? This big TurnKey outfit that takes investor all across the country, by turnkeys was just coming into Arizona, and they targeted them for one of their sources of business. So they brought them in, they / had several lenders. We work with that turkey, outfit that marketing company if you will, and they were putting their lenders in this office that note if they don't talk to him first, we do not accept your clients that opened me up to the turnkey, investor, coming to Arizona. And all you have to do is be very, very good at communication and perform every single time. So we performed, you know, I had 11 work. At working with me, your name is Ellen Schmidt, and we perform every single time we work our guts out. Sometimes we're only sleeping for our Knights versus coming in at five am I leaving at 9:00 10:00 PM that kind of thing. Got deals done, and we were very consistent with it. Well, because that consistency, one of the original lenders. Would that TurnKey outfit day? He cornered me in 2015, actually the end of 14. It says, hey, we should merge our businesses. Like, well, I ignored him because I thought it was kind of dumb to even consider. Well, then I had to call him about two weeks later because he was like a mentor of mine. I call him the problems, and he would guide me through it. So I called start talking to something he goes. By the way, I was really serious about what I said to you. I said, what was that says about us merging, our businesses will come you. What that looks like So explained it and then I just had surgery on my right showed my left shoulder and had a rod removed from my right leg from the original motorcycle accident. So, I am literally, I fly out to Utah with a cane and a, and a sling on. So, look like a bad term that chicken plate, you know, one bad wing and one bad leg, right? So I sat in the explain what this looked like, it looked like a great deal. So, we merged our stuff together, he based, I pushed all my database into his but legally can only put them in the name of every one name on? Every deal. So we chose His and after six months, he decided he was just going to destroy it all in. Keep it for himself and I had to start over at zero November 1st 2015, and what happened there, I fought for him, not to do that, but he was insistent. So we had no choice by Scott deals in the pipeline of his. So, I guess getting paid on those deals where they were closing out. And, and I sat down my little team at a couple people with me and said, okay, what are we going to do for the phone ring when the phone rings, because it's going to ring? It always, does he still have a brand out there? We still have an email is going to come in, what do we do about the life of a deal? And we decide how we're going to do it, and we started getting better and better at it and that following year in August, so that was 2000, November 2015, August of 2016, we're at this big company-wide meeting and the CEO's that they're talking about production and whose what? And my ex-partners there and he's ranked. Number two in the company lo and behold. I was ranked number 9, that is 300 some odd people, like it realized I just had my head.
Speaker 2
30:40
Down. Sure grinding yet.
Speaker 1
30:43
100%. And then later on that year, I became in the top five. And then by the end of, by the next year, I was number one. And I kept krinkle, he left to go to another company and then another company, okay, he hasn't been heard of since he's been at the youngster, he destroyed.
Speaker 2
30:57
So, let us so, you know, because a lot of our listeners may have either formed Partnerships or thought about it and you know, it's, you know, I am curious what your thoughts are on Partnerships in general or what you would do. Friendly their lessons learned from either forming it or just the time that you spent in partnership with him.
Speaker 1
31:19
So if informing I think we had a great partnership that could have gone awesome, right? But the problem is we didn't Define the roles well enough. We all the other thing it is there was nothing really legally saying you couldn't pull this crap. Anyway, a person could do whatever they want. The thing is sure found is a partnership is needs to be where the two people are so opposite. And in common Such different things that one person can't say, I can do it all myself here do it all, or they can do it all then it's not a partnership that's just my right. I think amazing Partnerships. I saw some guys do some amazing things and I wanted that yeah that's velvet is don't need a partnership. I can still be at the helm of it. I just need good people and places where I suck and that's putting people where I am not good at but don't close me to stay where I am best and then pay them extremely well to where they want to go. Anywhere else because you can't do their superpower, get paid so well doing their superpower and that's why I have decided now and that's how I am going to developing this. Does it mean that this can't flip around? Do something? Teach me another lesson. It sure as hell can right now. It's worked pretty dang. Well.
Speaker 2
32:28
Here. No, that's awesome. So yeah so from that low point in 2015 to 2016 sounds like 2015 you it was the low point and then by 2016 you are already building your own business back up. So for those Between in the last seven years. I mean, that's some amazing growth. What would you say was, where couple of the main factors with that growth?
Speaker 1
32:51
Really? The first thing is, I never allowed my brand to die. I kept growing my brand, even though we were under kind of under his brand of fuel or our new brand. See you never let your brand. I am always unique. Always be a person that people want to know and so that's right. And then I just start getting out there even more, so a lot more time on the road a lot. Face-to-face time, a lot more speaking to people directly a lot. And so now it's, you know, the brand went from, you know what it was too now. It's my entire goal of becoming the most well-known person on MySpace and I would say I have achieved that but I haven't achieved it, well, that I am satisfied. The, the intent that I have here is when people hear the name, Charles Schwab, they think, you know, trading And Trades. I want them to Aaron Chapman to think real estate investment, Finance, not the toughest match to a person because I That mean to endure with respect to what it is that we accomplished and so do it (differently) than any sumbitch out. There is not a single person that looks Acts or does things the way I do it. We have now taken to the extent of digging deep into understand, the real estate investor better than anybody else understand what they're really seeking, not what you're being sold and then create tools to help them do that. I got an app out there to help show people that when you're leveraging something in an in the high inflation or just a plain inflationary environment. You're never getting back with your borrowed, and it's your winning just because you leveraged it.
Speaker 2
34:15
Hmm. What's the name of that app?
Speaker 1
34:17
How you go to the, to your app store? And just go get the qj0 investment tool which stands for the quit jerking off. Investment tool. The reason I call it that is that people that are spending time, just shopping for rates, are wasting their time, jerking off on things of zero value. If you really understand that getting the leverage done and getting the right property to keep recently, rented for the entire time you own it, you can raise rents on it just Lever. The damn thing is going to pay you at Ten point two, five percent return on investment just getting some else to pay off the loan. That's it, right? And then to the point of appreciation you to appreciate tax benefits then you get the cash flow and cash on cash return to me, that's the lightest metric. We have in the real estate industry poorly sold, the worst metric as something to be the one you focus on. Because when the market shifts, you can't make those numbers work anymore. And now you got to come up with something else. Now, you need to raise to go down, or you go find like a five-year arm or seven your arms to supplement your soup. It was Pitch. Don't do all this. When people go get in those things, we don't know the future. Well, enough to be able to say that you'd be safe in one of those instruments. And we have had a lot of foreclosure due to a poorly closed. Deal.
Speaker 2
35:24
Sure. Got it now, before I fire off some questions for you what? So what are you looking for and you know you already touched on as far as the market conditions? But what are you looking to do in your business as far as altering things with this High rate, environment and high?
Speaker 1
35:41
Inflation? It. So really just continue to build relationships with everybody and helping people to understand where the real value is the other tactics and strategies might change with the principles, always remain the same the principle that's got changed. And so as a result of that because those principles are the same, it's just allowing people to understand the principle and wrap their head around it that are being pulled into a tactic or strategy benefit somebody. But it isn't the person buying the real estate has been eating those in selling you. The real estate in the person selling you will note or the loan not You the investor you are actually always pray. You know, we are, we are as humans are the apex predator and fall prey to know the species except other humans and right now is when the Predators come out. And so that's good for me. It's standing my ground and not allowing anybody to sway me for what is sexy right now. Or what? Selling right now, I am going to stick with my principles and what I know will benefit people. Not what's just going to get the deal.
Speaker 2
36:39
Closed. That's awesome, that's really good. All right, so some few a couple of personal questions, what do people misunderstand about you? Well, that's a good question.
Speaker 1
36:50
Don't know because I am very, very forthcoming with every damn.
Speaker 2
36:50
I.
Speaker 1
36:53
See you do seem.
Speaker 2
36:54
Like you wear your emotions on your sleeve if you were in sleeves and.
Speaker 1
36:58
They know exactly who their deal with when I walk up and I don't let for Allah for a lot of guesswork but I think probably the one thing that I get very underestimated if you don't know who I am. A lot of time when I come into it to an event, and I am not known, and they will say that there's a real estate investment Finance expert walking has been doing this for 24, 25 years. They have a Certain idea in their mind of what they're going to see step onto a stage. Then I walk on there and now look any different. I look, now I am had a button of Dickie shirt, or plaid shirt, still wearing the Stihl chainsaw hat, and all rock, a single braids, or double braided beard nearby. What in the hell is that here? And I appreciate the fact, they asked that question because if people don't ask questions, they can't hear the answer. I need to ask a question because they're going to listen intently to hear. What do I have to say? And I now I have noticed from feedback from the audience's that they won't be on stage with some pretty big names, and people forget the big names of the Dead were remembered me? Because here, it changes their mindset, the big-name, they expected everything that got out of him, but they got from you is way different from expected.
Speaker 2
38:03
So, I wasn't planning on asking this question, but popped into my head, I saw a short clip by part of the Mastermind group, I am in is a guy named Sharon. For about sahih, he's part of the group, but he posted something as a short video. How about you know, how his mentor's have always told him, don't care about what people think about you. But the reality is, you know, this is my opinion, is that you do. If you're going to be in business and you're going to try to add value to people, you have got to care about on some level, what people think about you, because you're not going to be able to listen and add value and actually solve their problem. So, I am just curious. How do you frame that from your perspective? What are you? What are your thoughts on? You know what on worrying about? What people think of you.
Speaker 1
38:51
So I for me I don't worry about it as much because I go after everything from the most benevolent position, I can to give people the best information I possibly can from the knowledge that I have also done it from a perspective of being very, very comfortable with who I am. And what I offer as far as my appearance, my speech and the actual message that I am bringing as long as I am doing that from that space. I really don't care what they think as if Do have a negative thought process to what I am offering there's nothing I could possibly do to drama in period. If all I did was change it and sugar Kota and the and then cost you myself up to be able to meet what they expect. Just, so I can talk to find out, they're not going to like, what's underneath the surface anyway, if all I did was suckered them in with bait. Then the walkways thing I was laid to, then that in, truly, I was lying to people. My appearance, my dress differently now because I come up, come, I am sorting through people immediately. I am what there's a lot of people like to invest their money in different things. I investment into people. I am a people collector, I collect relationships. I fly first class, not because it's a comfortable seat because the conversation is different from I get to meet are different. They the expansion of my Holdings as far as peoples concerned experience all the time. I know so damn many people, it's ridiculous. Me, even the guy who serving me my steak and there's a place in Utah, Carver's, and I am risking even saying this, you dumb because I don't want people freak out my damn place, but when I walk again, they know what I want, they actually special cut me my specific steak but I walk in the new exactly this. I get the exact same guy waiting on me and I overpay. Every single person I kicked the s*** out of these people. Why? Because when I come back I get that service and better every single time if I kept him one time more than I should have, and they don't live up to. Then there's the Last time I deal with that person, right? I collect people. I got people all over the world wherever I.
Speaker 2
40:54
Go. They know who I am. Yeah that's really good. There's so many gold nuggets there that I have I haven't listened to all of my episodes again but I think this is one. I am going to have to re-listen to. So what would you say? Looking back? Let us say if you had to give yourself your 18 year, old self some advice, what would that be?
Speaker 1
41:13
Oh, I do maybe treat people (differently) than I did back then. I was a very, very angry person growing up. I could, I could go to fist at the drop of a hat. I come from an Irish, father in a Spanish Mother, right? To. It's a when you're when they would hit heads and be like an Unstoppable Force hitting an emblem, movable object, write, and rewrite and work for a long time. I needed the ass beaton's of life and gave me to soften me to when it came to other people, I needed. And I think everybody does, if you want to be successful, you have to embrace the time you get the s*** kicked out of you. And actually, I am working on a book right now it's done. It's written, it's in, it's in edit. Robert. Allen is the one who's doing the rafah, the rough headed on it in the forward and now it's going to be a copy editor do in the rest of it. But it's in my voice, it's in my tone it's in the s*** that I say as being very blunt sitting around a can't like I am putting myself in position sitting around a campfire with 18 year olds today saying This is how life is and get ready for the ass-whoopin and you have the capability to decide the Appleton you're willing to take to achieve what you want to achieve. But one is coming whether you get it without knowing it or ask you actually plan for the beating but you can plan your Beating. I have planned my beating more than one time with was mind and pain and I believe achieve things that was unachievable in my mind until I wrote it out but you got to pay for it and it hurts but it's so worth it to reach that Plateau at least that point on the trail and you're looking back over what it was and I thank God that he put a lot of mist and fog. On the trail. So I couldn't see how steep how treacherous how Rocky and how many poisonous serpents were on that damn thing. Because I was never walked it to begin with and now I look back on it and that he will was worth every bit of it. And I know there's more coming, I just know just one step at a time and I will gain more, get more ground and more knowledge and more information more. Everything just by continuing.
Speaker 2
43:08
On the trail. Yeah that's really good with. Did you have a title for the book yet?
Speaker 1
43:13
We have two of them, and I am not in my mouth. Shut about himself. Got it, got it. 12 talks about everything and you need to shut up. Yeah.
Speaker 2
43:25
If you could have coffee or a drink or something, with, with any historical figure, who would you choose?
Speaker 1
43:30
Um, right now I mean I am going to go with kind of cliche one but Abraham Lincoln the guy was fascinating to me in the sense that how he handled problems and how we told stories I tell an s*** ton of Stories, We would swap stories like crazy. I would love that conversation because I think that there's not a story attached to a lesson than it's not a lesson learned. It is more merely just statement but when you equate it to something that happened and drive home stories things get done and for a person to be so decisive another person that is for him to be continued to endure, a beating after being to be basically the greatest president that we have ever had in the strongest country ever that faced a Civil War and segregation. I mean, I segregation but the Emancipation Proclamation, all the battles has bought That's an amazing individual to fight all those things. There's a lot of great people. I mean, don't get me wrong, amazing guy, whatever. But what Lincoln took on everything to have gotten into that, from all the beatings of his life. That's the guy I want to sit with the only other person. I was it was guy by the name of Puerto rock. Well, when was badass some b****** ever walk this planet?
Speaker 2
44:36
And who was that? I feel like I have heard the Rockwell. Yeah, who is that? What Joe forget her name.
Speaker 1
44:44
Have you ever heard of Wild? Bill Hickok? Yeah. Okay, so guy was killed in some Deadwood South Dakota. To the known as the, the fastest, with a pistol in history. Yeah. Well, he was said he was, it was said that if he ever saw poor Rockwell walking down the same side of the street is going to be across the street. Keep walking, that one is credited with killing well over 100 people. Well, I have been shot out, like crazy, never touched by a bullet in one of the meanest, some b****** ever walked this planet. But also one of the kindest men that's ever been around.
Speaker 2
45:11
Hmm. So it is possible to be both.
Speaker 1
45:15
We both it's one of these things that you be what you have to be at the time that you're.
Speaker 2
45:18
There. Sure, that's really good. Little bit off the wall, but if you had to try a different business entirely different business, or occupation outside of the mortgage industry, what would that be?
Speaker 1
45:32
And a very good question. I am. I have been so dead focused on this problem. Probably go straight into like commercial or residential real estate Investments. He was going full all the way into that. Had to go into an occupation itself. I have probably started that I really, really enjoyed the automotive industry. I have done a lot of stuff there and then probably get into that. And the only other one that I get into is, is guiding, you know, for hunts, I love Gotcha going on tonight, that video rap of us. Moose hunt, whatever I go. Guided.
Speaker 2
46:06
Hunts. That's awesome. Cool. Other than your own book that's coming out. What's a book or two that you would?
Speaker 1
46:12
Recommend the greatest book that's ever written. In my opinion, outside of scripture is the Master Key System by Charles handle because correspondence course in 1910. You get the course every month, every week they give you a lesson, you'd read the lesson over and over again every day for a week and do the exercise at the end of the lesson every day. So you're doing your training, your And how to focus and how to push out things of zero that they're just trying to take your attention from you after 24, which you can pretty much Focus, your attention. What's awesome about that in 1910? He talked about things mentally that was going on inside your brain that we didn't know about until 2000's, when you got a guy like Joe dispenza who shows you in real time, how the brain works with the neurons connecting and firing and rewiring your brain. He talked about this 1910s. Amazing bonus. 5.99 on Amazon. Get the damn book? Do not, or without that book, second greatest book, I believe is that is the Napoleon Hills? Outwitting the devil? Yeah, yeah, couples. That one so well, right. So this was teaching you how to focus your mind and that when the premise that when the devil is that, you know if in this interview with Satan himself, he says how he could have drills people is influencing them to drift. If you can't focus on any one thing, you can accomplish anything so it Through the outcome of you, not gaining control your brain and here are the lessons on how to control your brain.
Speaker 2
47:37
Well, those two books seem like very relevant in today's world where we're so distracted by social media and everything else. That's really.
Speaker 1
47:45
Good weapons of mass distraction is what we're.
Speaker 2
47:47
Finding. There you go. What about other podcasts that you enjoy? You have your own show.
Speaker 1
47:53
Right? I just do it twice a week. I do a video to my database just explaining what's going on the market. And My perspective on it. I get a lot of people saying hey we can get you ten thousand viewers Mike. I don't want 10,000 viewers, I am happy to be able to subscribers because it's targeted to them now but make it up. Pick it up. As far as it me who doesn't listen to Joe Rogan, right? I don't listen to him all the time but for me, I head is down working just looking at the markets and understanding how things are shifting. I have not, I do listen to National real estate post very, very often and, and, and, and rogin. Those are when it comes to podcast. That's where I focus my energy. I have, of course, listen to Andy for Sela who doesn't like getting punched in the face verbally over and over again. That's kind of knows that. That's where I put my energy at. Got it.
Speaker 2
48:39
Awesome. So you have touched on this already. But how do you like to serve others?
Speaker 1
48:44
Really, by being the absolute best person? I possibly can be as how I serve other people. A lot of people ask me why I am what drives me what motivates me to keep doing and doing well, have to be sitting on the boat of the time. I was asked that question. It was a, it was Kevin at one of Kevin, the lyrics business partners and ask me a question while sitting next to a guy. Do a lot of business with by the name of Mark. Oh, Cinderella. And I put it over to him. I said he surprised me to do business and to do what I do. What do you mean by? How do I drive? You said you and your staff. Drop my name all the time and because we do I need you to look like a rock star because you drop my name. If I suck at what I do, you automatically suck at what you do because you're the one who my name first gave them. My name and we immediate my whole team and up being bad asses that just made you a badass because you OS. I need you to become better and thought of as, as a better individual, or a great resource because you recommended me. So, I have to get better. That's how it is. I serve other people by ensuring that everything we do is to, is, to be better at what we do, not for us. But for those who are willing to drop our.
Speaker 2
49:49
Name, that's fantastic. That's I haven't received that response. That's really good. So, now, looking back at the adversity, we have talked about the, you know, the financial challenges. Is the motorcycle accident your rehab and then your partnership gone bad, and could you touch on two or three things that are kind of just Lessons Learned, and we have already covered a ton, but just what would you say kind of comes to the surface? When you think back on those.
Speaker 1
50:17
Challenges that the greatest blessings in life that they ask meeting that you take period, you will not let me tell a story all the way back to years old. I didn't go to kindergarten, my parents put me into a Pentecostal school because There was a great score and started me in first grade. There was a point in that where they kept us separate who is first added to senior. I mean they had all 12 grades in this the school being run inside their Church. Well, we are off learning the alphabet as first graders, and we are going through every letter and back. Then they were filmstrips is this. It Was 1980, right? So had these filmstrips that it would, you had the music on a tape and then when it is, we flip it to the next, next frame. Well, we got to the letter M, and that's about this, mule named Milton. And the Limerick went Milton, the mule he made a mistake as he read a map. He walked into Lake now, I am 48 years old now, and I remember what I did at six years old. So, 42 years ago, I remember leaning over to little girl sitting next to me. She was my neighbor at home. And also, my neighbor here, and I sat next to her, and I redid the Limerick, and instead of me, Alton walking into a lake I had in pissing in a bucket. Stupid sounding thing, right? But that's what I said, she told my teacher heard, it she grabbed both of our ears, took us to the principal's office set us down where I had to repeat what I said. Now, the principal is a very, very big man. Well he turned around pivot in his chair to reach underneath his desk and pulled out an aircraft. Aluminum briefcase doubt in the code. Ceremoniously crack it open and turned it, so we can see the contents inside. It was a paddle. A very, very ornate paddle with holes drilled in all kinds of stuff in the padded interior. He made a stand up, turn around, put our hands on our chairs, that you walk behind us, and give us both a SWAT. Now I had taken a lot bigger beatings for my dad. You know, my dad. He whooped our ass growing up. It wasn't the fact that the beating hurt or the swapper gravity, the situation now because of that and I do is going to face my dad that might get another woman. Now, how many letters are in the English? Alphabet? 26:26. I had to Google that s*** cuz I was 26 letters. How many do you think I remember the Limerick for?
Speaker 2
52:35
How many? I don't know how many just the one.
Speaker 1
52:39
Just the letter M. Why? Because got my ass whooped for it. Sure, 42 years later, I remember the beating I took and every single word associated with that beat we as humans have to get our ass kicked to learn the lessons. Got it now, unless you're going to go out there and learn Lessons directly and understand things directly in really, really focus on them. You're destined to take a beating to learn what you need to learn. Don't shy away from beaton's. Sometimes you gotta love to Taste the Blood. There's a lot of times that blood you're doing, you will be tasting, is your own.
Speaker 2
53:12
So are you seeking out beatings now? Or you just as the as you experience them, you're just framing it differently.
Speaker 1
53:18
What it is as I am experiencing less and less because I have learned from the ones that had now, does it mean that new ones are coming, but they Often saw as they go because you don't need the massive beatings to learn. You're right. One of the biggest lessons. I learned some of the biggest lessons. I learned were just devastating at the time of the greatest thing that ever happened to me. I like to always ask people what's the best the worst thing that ever happened? Meaning the worst thing that could have happened at the time, was the best thing that could have happened for you. And we need to embrace the times, we get our ass kicked. I like to say that there's this big ominous foot that's walking around kicking your ass all day every day, but you have got to get up before the foot do I It weigh a wakes up at 7:30 because if something is waking up at 7:45, you get to work. They're getting the s*** kicked out of all the time. I wake up at 4:30 AM and I go about my life with my purpose to get done, what I need to get done before the rest of the world wakes up, and I am never behind the in front of the foot. I am so far ahead of the foot that sometimes it works. Sometimes, it doesn't get any, but if it does get me, what you will find that when you get kicked, it propels, you, you get up and keep running, and you will be far ahead of it. It's when you lay there and lick your wounds, that the entire world passes you in that leaves you behind and don't lay there. Get up and get moving and take what you just learned to as and apply it towards that next moment and keep applying every lesson. You have got you will be amazed at how far you advance quickly after beating.
Speaker 2
54:41
Man so much good stuff. Wow. So Aaron Chapman, where can our listeners reach out to you? If they want to reach out.
Speaker 1
54:49
You go to the quit jerking off investment tool, right? The qj0 investment tools, how you find it in the upper left corner? There's a question mark. Get that will take you to my site. You can also Google Aaron Chapman. There's only one bald bearded redneck lender on there. There's a soccer player, a pastor. Another author, you have got. You can also go to Erin Chapman.com. I am right there. You can look me up on YouTube. Just search here in Chattanooga. Find my YouTube's on there again. Another ball bearded redneck with a little pizza. Okay, right. There's, yeah, there're ways to find me if you can't find it because you suck.
Speaker 2
55:19
I would, I would second that it wasn't very difficult to find you. So now this has been fantastic and I really appreciate you opening up. And sharing your story about these challenges you have overcome and you're very real and just, you know, the fact that we know that more challenges are coming, but you have been able to pull out these Lessons Learned, and I am positive that our listeners are going to get a ton of value out of this one. So, is there anything else you want to share before we sign off?
Speaker 1
55:46
That's it guys. Just be willing to take the beaten and learn from it. More beans are coming. Try not to give yourself any more than you have to. But walking the biggest beans we take to the ones that were.
Speaker 2
55:55
Self-imposed. Fantastic stuff. Thanks. Aaron. And to our listeners out there, thank you very much for spending your most valuable resource with us and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the form adversity to abundance podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts, that helps others find the show, and we greatly appreciate it. Thanks again for listening, and we will catch you in the next episode.
