Through $40k Failure with Faith: Mark Passerelli’s Journey from W-2 Employee to Real Estate Entrepreneur
Episode Details
Transcript
Feeling like your real estate dreams are slipping through your fingers? Imagine losing over $40,000 on a deal and then miraculously turning it around. Mark Passerelli's story will inspire you to see the hidden blessings in adversity and come out stronger on the other side. Stay tuned for an unexpected twist that will change your perspective on setbacks in real estate investing.
My special guest is Mark Passerelli
Mark Passerelli is a burgeoning real estate entrepreneur and the owner of Phoenix Estates. With a background in carpentry and home remodeling, Mark transitioned from a W-2 employee to a successful real estate investor with over 20 cash-flowing rental properties. His journey is characterized by resilience and overcoming setbacks, including a substantial loss on a deal. Mark's faith played a crucial role in guiding him through challenging times. With extensive experience and firsthand knowledge, Mark offers valuable insights and strategies for aspiring real estate entrepreneurs looking to make the leap into the industry.
“There's a plan that is set in place, and I may not know or see what that plan is until after it happens. I try to use that in all facets of my life, not just in business.” - Mark Passerelli
“If you don't believe in yourself, why should anybody else believe in you that you can do it? You have to bet on yourself.” - Mark Passerelli
“I believe that God has a plan in place for me. It's really tough for us to trust in that a lot of times, especially as an entrepreneur, you're like, 'Alright, where's my next deal? What's going on?' You know, what's happening, right? You like to control everything.” - Mark Passerelli
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Embracing the Shift: How to Successfully Transition from W2 to Real Estate Entrepreneurship
- Bouncing Back: Overcoming Setbacks and Challenges in Real Estate Investing
- Unlocking Opportunities: Strategies for Securing Funding for Real Estate Investments
- The Power of Belief: How Faith Can Fuel Your Entrepreneurial Journey
- Turning Failure into Success: Valuable Lessons Learned from a Failed Real Estate Deal
Embracing the Shift
In real estate entrepreneurship, the ability to embrace a shift from a traditional job to a new venture is crucial for success. Mark Passerelli's journey exemplifies the importance of being open to change and taking bold steps towards a new path. By embracing the shift, aspiring entrepreneurs can unlock new opportunities and chart a fulfilling career in real estate.
Connect with Mark Passerelli
Website: https://www.phoenixestates.net/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PhoenixEstatesLLC
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/phoenixestatesllc
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-passerelli-b97525109/
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Speaker 0
If you are working at w two and considering becoming a real estate entrepreneur, this episode is for you. If you are a real estate entrepreneur, this episode is for you. Mark Passarelli is, a friend of mine. I've known him for well over a decade. And, we walked through his story of of becoming going from a w two, employee, a contractor. When I say contractor, he was a a carpenter and, worked for a home remodeling company. And, going from that to becoming a real estate entrepreneur and how how he decided to take the leap. And we talked through toward the end, how he lost forty thousand dollars on a deal, which was a huge chunk of money for him. It still is a good chunk of money for him. And, but we talk about, how his faith was critical in getting through that time and how god really showed up for him. Earlier in the episode, we talk about a five year period of of darkness and, I guess, rebellion, you could say, how he strayed from his faith. So faith is a critical element of this episode for sure. Toward the very end, at the very end, we talk about, some tricks to get, mental fitness in in check and some things that Mark does on a regular basis to really, keep himself motivated, keep himself healthy from a mental standpoint, and how he's been able to weather the storms that inevitably come along with real estate entrepreneurship. We talk about, you know, how the the family life plays into things and how, it's not just about, you know, your real estate deal and and and your professional life. We really get a glimpse behind the scenes as to, you know, what it might look like for somebody who quits their w two, doesn't have a ton of income, doesn't have a ton of savings, and takes that leap to go out on their own. Mark's in the the Maryland flipping and rental property space. He's somebody that adds value in every conversation, wants to wants to add value in every deal, and just a a really good person, very relatable, person. And and this is a very relatable episode that you're gonna really enjoy. Speaker 1
Welcome to From Adversity to Abundance, the go to podcast for real estate entrepreneurs seeking not just to thrive, but to conquer with resilience and mental sharpness. Each week, join us as we dive into the compelling world of real estate through the lens of mental fitness, where challenges transform into opportunities. Get ready to transform your mindset and expand your understanding of what it takes to succeed in real estate. Let's explore these stories of triumph and resilience together. Speaker 0
Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm thrilled today to have with us a friend of mine, Mark Passarelli. Mark, how are you doing today? Speaker 2
Good. Thanks for having me on, Jamie. Appreciate it. Speaker 0
Absolutely. Mark is, an entrepreneur. He's a real estate investor, the owner of Phoenix Estates. And, Mark used to be in my house quite a bit working Speaker 2
on her working Speaker 0
on our home. This was I can't believe it's been almost ten years since we, you were essentially remodeling, like, half of my house, which was Yeah. Which was awesome. But, It's probably Speaker 2
the probably the worst experience of your life, right, seeing me every day. It was all Speaker 0
I tried to, yeah, that's why I I I forgot about it. I've just pushed it out of my memory. Yeah. No. No. The actual actually, those were good times. But but, Mark, how are you doing today, and what are you up to today? Speaker 2
Good. Yeah. Doing well. So as Jamie mentioned, I'm I'm a real estate investor. So currently, investing in, buy and hold properties, doing some flips, and, just started doing some wholesales as well. So that's kinda what I'm kinda what I'm getting into, is is the real estate field. Been doing it for about four years and, really really enjoying it. It's it's, it's given me a lot of freedom and, kind of allowed me to to pursue things that I that I wanted to pursue. Speaker 0
Yeah. I'm excited to dive in because as we as we briefly touched on before we hit record, I I've got some some real gaps in my knowledge about your story. And, you know, if you see those, like, somebody goes on a well, I know you've lost weight as well. But if if somebody does a a diet and that you see, like, the before and after pictures, it's like, wow. Because I have not been plugged into every detail of your journey, as much as I'm sure you would would have loved that. No. I'm kidding. Yeah. But, it I I it's just that when you you sent me kind of an update with your bio, and I was like, wow. Like, I had no idea that you have twenty some rental properties, and you've done all these flips and everything. And, it's it's, I'm like, what have I been doing this this whole Speaker 2
time? Speaker 0
But, no, it's really impressive, you know, just from my vantage point. And I know we're gonna get into more detail here, but it's very impressive just seeing, you know, quite honestly, you were the the guy working on my house, and I'm not trying to put that down and put you, you know, in any way. And now it's like you're a legit real estate investor. So not that you didn't have value then, but it's just impressive what the the what you've been able to accomplish. And I know it hasn't been easy, and we're gonna dive into some of the adversity that you've been through. So before we jump into your backstory, right now, say in the next month, what's your focus, professionally? Speaker 2
Yeah. So, right now, we're working on a bunch of rental properties, that we purchased. And and we can dive more into this, you know, in detail later, but, essentially, we we're doing the BRRRR strategy. Right? So Mhmm. We're buying them at at a discounted price, adding value through the rehab process, and then, kinda refinancing out of them. So, we have, numerous properties that we're working on right now. And so for the next month, you know, the goal would be to kind of close out those deals and Mhmm. Get some more flips going, because the the flips actually this year haven't been as we haven't done as many as many flips as we wanted to, but we've done more rental properties than we've wanted to. So it kind of, like, kind of, like, averages itself out. Speaker 0
Yeah. I'm curious to dive in later on on how the BRRRR strategy has still been working Speaker 2
Yeah. Speaker 0
Given today's market conditions too. You know, Speaker 2
because I've done Speaker 0
that as well. And, I think, generally speaking, it's not as easy to do right now. I'd say real estate investing is not as easy to do as it was five, ten years ago. So, obviously, you've gotta be good to continue to to be, profitable and productive. Yeah. So and I can't wait to jump in and figure out how, like, the the mindset around kind of deciding when to work you know, leave your job. Essentially, you were working for somebody else, and then you weren't. And that's a big decision and a big transition. But before we get there, let's jump into your backstory a little bit. Where do you wanna start? Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I think just we'll just start at the beginning. Right? So I I wanted to talk about my faith a lot as well because it's Yeah. Something that's really important to me. So grew up in a Christian family, Christian home, always, you know, going to church, doing doing all those types of things. I think I I accepted Jesus into my heart when I was pretty young, like, four or five. Right? Mhmm. And you you kind of go almost, like, go with the flow, right Mhmm. With your family. Right? Your your parents not that they force you to go to church, but it's just you're going to church because your family is going. Right? It's And Speaker 0
you're kind of going through the going through the motions. Speaker 2
Right. Right. You haven't, Speaker 0
you know, you haven't researched as a five year old. Like, you haven't researched, like, Islam and any other Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Religion out there. So so that makes sense. Speaker 2
Kinda just follow in your parents' footsteps. Right? Sure. And that's and that's I feel like how my faith was growing up. And then at at some point, you have to turn your your parents' faith into your own. Right? Like and whether that's when you go off to college or or or whatever, you move out of the house. Like, your parents aren't forcing you to go to to church anymore. Right? You have to decide to make that step yourself. So I I don't wanna get ahead of ourselves because that's a a little bit later on. But Yeah. Let me just kinda go through my journey. So, and this kind of relates to the real estate, the some of my background. I started getting interested, honestly, in construction and real estate type stuff when I was pretty young. We had, an addition put on on my parents' house. It was an in law suite. And I think I was, I don't know, eleven, twelve maybe. And I just was fascinated watching the process and and seeing, like, the different phases and, you know, watching the the framing go up and because it was at our house. Right? I got to see the whole process. Mhmm. And that was just such an intriguing, experience for me. And so I I think that kind of started the gears turning in my head. Like, how, you know, how can I do this type of stuff? I've always been kind of an active guy. I like I've always liked working with my hands, been been an athlete. Right? I'm I'm not like a a sit at your desk type of guy, which, yeah, oddly enough, what I do most now. Yeah. Right. So got in got involved in I think when I was sixteen years old, I started working at a a a, construction company remodeling company. We Mhmm. Install kitchens. Speaker 0
I mean, Jesus was a carpenter. I'm just just Speaker 2
just just saying. Right? Just trying to follow in his footsteps, man. So and we actually for that company, we worked on a on a house that the guy who owned the company, he was flipping in Baltimore City. I have no clue. He could have made hundred thousand dollars or or lost twenty grand. I have no clue. Right. What I do know is I I was like, man, this is this is awesome. Like, I don't have to work for a client. Right? It's we have free access to the house. Because in in home renovations, it's it's it is it's tough sometimes working with clients, not that they're tough people. I mean, there are tough clients. Right? Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
But you have to work around them and and Right. You know, their schedule and and all that type of stuff. So, that that part of the house flipping intrigued me early on. Speaker 0
Yeah. Because you this is a just a it's a vacant property. That's an investment property. Speaker 2
Yep. It's not a retail. PM if you wanted, you know, as long as you're not Speaker 0
Making too much noise. Speaker 2
Yeah. Bothering the neighbors. Right? Yeah. So but I just I never I never really took the action to make those steps happen to, like, get into the real estate field. Mhmm. And and this is kind of where some of the mindset stuff comes into play. Right? Mhmm. I realized, you know, I don't know, eight years ago or something that I am just a life procrastinator. Mhmm. And what I mean by that is just everything I do, it's like, oh, I can I can do that tomorrow? Like, I'll do that later. I'll do that later. And that's how it was, like, my whole life. Right? And it it kind of affected my my grades in school and things like that. Like, I just didn't I was like, oh, you know, I'll do that later. And then the next thing you know, I have to write a ten page paper in, you know, one night, and it's like, you gotta cram it in. And Yeah. So I had to shift my mindset at at some point, and that's that's that happens kinda later on in my story. But Mhmm. Kind of worked for construction companies off and on, throughout, you know, my my early adulthood. Yeah. I have actually had a college degree in cybersecurity, and it has been collecting dust on my shelf inside. Speaker 0
I I think I remember when you were you were doing that, I think. Speaker 2
Yeah. So it's it's one of those things where it it took me eight years to get the degree just because, like I said, I just I didn't care about the classes. You know? I wasn't doing well. I was taking off semesters, going back. And I I felt like, I felt like I I was kind of, trying to follow in the footsteps of my brother, my older brother. He's Speaker 0
seven years Speaker 2
older than I am, and he's he's a computer engineer. And I'm like, oh, man. Like, I I gotta do that because Mhmm. I look up to him and all that. And then Yeah. I finally realized that, like, that's just not me. I gotta pursue what I wanna do. Right? Right. Speaker 0
Well and so just I I like it. And I because I observed you. I mean, you were the main person, honestly, consistently working in our house, and that that's a small, you know, window into your your life. But Right. We but I I what I observed is you were always on time, always working hard. So I don't want the listener to get the impression that you're saying you were lazy, like, from a from a day to day physical standpoint. But and and correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm what I'm gathering is maybe from a strategy or or life, like, big picture intentionality type thing. Like, who am I really? What what skills you know, what should what what's my mission here? What's my purpose? Speaker 2
Yeah. Speaker 0
Maybe that was you were avoiding that and and pushing that off. Is that fair to say? Speaker 2
Yeah. That's fair. I mean, I've always been a really hard worker. Like, when I'm when I'm doing something, it's like I try to put my all into it. Yeah. But I think I just lacked the the mental, you know, like, savvy of, like, how, you know, how can I improve my life, or how can I Mhmm? What do I actually want? It's just it's just you just kinda going with the flow. Speaker 0
Well, and as much as I wanna be you know, pile on and beat you up no. I'm kidding. But I I I think that's super common. Right? It's it's just it's it's pretty I think a lot of our listeners can relate to that. So Yeah. It makes sense. Speaker 2
Still kind of working through my life. Right? I'm I'm I'm sixteen. I I was a a carpenter. Moving into, like, my early twenties, I I went through a period where, like, I stopped going to church probably for about five years. Mhmm. And I just wasn't following Jesus. Like, to me, like, as a Christian, like, my my sole purpose is to is to follow Jesus and and to trust in him as my savior. Right? I I I'm a sinner. I need to follow Jesus. I need to put my faith in him that he is my savior. Right? And I still think I I knew those things, and I still believe those things, but I wasn't, like if if you looked at my life, you would have said, like, this guy is not doing what he believes in. Right? I was, I was living out, you know, on my own with a couple other guys Mhmm. Who were drinking, smoking weed, like, every day, like, just doing all these, like, crazy things. Right? And I I won't dive, like, too much into that, but it's, you know, it's it was an issue. Right? Mhmm. It was I was I was addicted to I was addicted to weed. Like, I felt like I had to smoke every single day Mhmm. To, like, to get through. It's it's a it's not like a physical addiction. It's like a mental addiction type thing. Right? Dependency. Yeah. And so that I mean, that I think that was part of what affected, my mindset of, like, you know, I'm just I'm just smoking and having a good time. Right? Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
It was Speaker 0
a short term day to day Speaker 2
Yeah. Yep. Mindset. And then sort of in my later twenties, I I came back to the church, and kind of rededicated my my faith in Jesus and kinda stopped all that all that type of stuff. I'm not What what do Speaker 0
you think was the what was the change? Like, why the because I think it's easy to go drift away. So Yeah. I'm not quite as interested in in why that happened. But why did you come back? Speaker 2
I just I just always knew that it wasn't right. Like so that Mhmm. As a Christian, you believe in, like, the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit works in your heart. And and I constantly felt this this tug on my heart, like, hey. Are you doing? Like, yeah. Like, let's let's go here. And I just was kinda it's like I said, I'm a procrastinator. I was like, you know what? I can go back to church tomorrow. You know? I'm still a Christian. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
But I'm just gonna put that off. I don't feel like doing that right now. You know? Right. And Speaker 0
Your your sins are forgiven. Right? So Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely. And and, yeah, that's how it works. Right? Like Speaker 0
like, Speaker 2
God forgives all of our sins through Jesus. But, it's you you you can't just say, oh, my sins are forgiven. Let me go, you know, do all these crazy things. Right? Speaker 0
Yeah. That's something that gets left out these days is the repentance Speaker 2
Right. Speaker 0
Side of things. But we'll I'll stay off my soapbox for now. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, one thing that I attribute it to so I, my brother was a missionary, and he ended up coming back to the States, for good. And he invited me to come play soccer. Soccer is one of my greatest passions in life. Uh-huh. I absolutely I still play today. Speaker 0
Nice. Speaker 2
Played all through high school. I played one year in college at just a, you know, a community college. It was no big deal, but, nothing like your story was Speaker 0
Still still impressive, though. Speaker 2
Yeah. So he invited me to come play soccer with this young adult group at at the church. Mhmm. And I I started, you know, playing soccer, and then I I started going to the church where the young adults were from. And Mhmm. That's kinda how I how I came back. I just you know, I I think I felt for a while, like, I wouldn't be accepted because of I knew the things that I had been doing. Right? Mhmm. But that's a a false reality that we try to con maybe that was just an excuse. Like, hey. I'm not gonna be accepted. I don't I'm not gonna go back to church. Right? But I felt accepted in this group. And so I felt like, hey. I'm gonna I'm gonna go back to church and and see how it goes. And and it's it's been like, I feel like my faith is so much stronger and different now than it was prior to this. Just because I went through this time of darkness, it helped me realize my actual need for Jesus. Mhmm. A lot of times, if you Speaker 0
Yeah. Go ahead. Speaker 2
I was just gonna say a lot of times, if you grow up in a Christian home and and you don't have a period of darkness, you kinda just, like I said, go with the flow. Right? Yeah. You take it for granted. Realized in my own mind how much I needed him. Speaker 0
Yeah. Gotcha. What, approximately, what year was this that we're talking about that that you kind of returned to the faith? Speaker 2
Probably about eight years ago. Okay. That's So Got it. Yeah. Speaker 0
Got it. So you're working on my house during Speaker 2
probably working on your house. Yeah. Speaker 0
Hey. I was twenty twenty fourteen. Job. Speaker 2
I wasn't snacking on the job. Oh, yeah. Speaker 0
Gotcha. That so and look. Yeah. I I I I just did a ten week, small group at my church called Rooted. It's I think it's a national program. But, I mean, some of the you know, not that you wanna get into comparing too much, but some of the stories that I think we we all have this kind of natural, like, oh, I'm not good enough. I'm somebody everybody in the group's gonna know more of the Bible than than I do or something like some something along those lines of I I don't measure up or I've done too many bad things to be accepted. And then, man, once you get to know, like, these other guys and the the group I was in, wow. It's like some of the stuff they've been through or have Mhmm. Chosen to do. And and, again, I'm not putting not, minimizing things I've done or anything, but it's just like, okay. We've all we've all fallen short. Right? Yep. So, that that's really comforting once you realize that no nobody can really throw throw the first stone. Right? Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And something I something I relate to, like, your podcast from adversity to abundance is Yeah. You know, I went from this time where I had so two two of the friends that I was hanging out with at that time Mhmm. Have passed away from drug overdoses. Wow. And, like, to think that, like, that could have been me. Right? Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Now they were they were, you know, involved in some some other crazier stuff that I was never really involved in. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
But I could have easily You could have gone down that path. Gone down that path. And, you know, it's, it's just something I think about. You know? It's like Yeah. I to go from, like, this dark time in my place where I I could've, you know, died, baby, right, to where I am today, I still have, you know, I'm I still have a ton of room to grow, right, in my faith For sure. In my business, you know, in in being a good spouse, and and father. Like, all those areas, I I still need to grow in. Mhmm. But I it's good to look back and look where you came from because For sure. It's like, man, look where I was and look where I am now. You know? Speaker 0
Yeah. Well, I haven't read the book, The Gap and the Gain. I should. Speaker 2
Oh. But I've Dude. Speaker 0
I've read a couple It Speaker 2
is a great book. Okay. That's I just recently read it, like, a couple months ago. Speaker 0
Awesome. That that's just what popped into my head when you just talked about that. Looking back and appreciating how far you have come and how much growth has been accomplished, if you will, is important. And I know as entrepreneurs, it's very easy not to do that. It's very easy to just look forward, you know, and just the next deal. Okay. So let's cover the the the last eight years, both, from, like, a mental fitness standpoint and and an actual real estate investing standpoint. First, how did you decide to quit your job? What did that what did that look like? Speaker 2
Yeah. It was, so right when COVID started, I was working for a a remodeling company, and we had a furlough. Mhmm. Speaker 0
I don't know. Speaker 2
It was maybe eight weeks or something. Mhmm. And it just it gave me a lot of time to think about what I wanted. Right? And a lot of I had a lot of free time to to kind of do some research. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
Right. About a year or so prior to this happening, I had been listening to podcasts. Like, like, BiggerPockets was a big one that I started listening to, and started reading a lot of books. And I'll be honest with you. Prior to to me, like, listening to BiggerPockets, I don't know the last book or if I ever read a book for pleasure or for, like, to gain knowledge. By choice. Right. Hey. You have to read this book for school, and I'm gonna Cliffnote it and barely read it anyway. Right? So, like, that's that is yeah. That is me. And I think I mean, part of it was because, like, I always struggle with reading. Like, my reading comprehension was never the greatest. And so I I I would read something, and then a page later, I'm like, I have no clue what I just read. And so it's like Mhmm. Why should I read? I'm not gonna understand this stuff. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
But on BiggerPockets, they always talk about they always ask each guest or they used to. I don't know if they still do. But I don't know either. You know, what are your top three books that you like to read? And and one of the ones I kept hearing was Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Mhmm. Sure. That was the first book that I had read, and I I it, like, blew my mind just to to think differently. Right? Like, how I had been thinking about assets and and liabilities and and just a different mindset of thinking. Yep. And so after I read that book, I I just started reading all these other books and and Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
Listening to podcasts and stuff. And, I was trying to just gain as much knowledge as I could before making the jump into real estate. Sure. I have a I have a good oh, go ahead. Speaker 0
Well, I just I I think it's I had a similar you know, might have been a little bit little bit earlier, but, of course, I'm a little bit older than you too. But, no. Similar thing Speaker 2
where it's Speaker 0
just a mindset shift, and it's just like you surround yourself. You know, it's not like just changing your thoughts by that by itself can just make you wealthy overnight or something like that or just create success instantly. Of course. That's that's kinda ridiculous. But, I mean but but it's amazing how your thoughts do lead to your actions and your behaviors and your habits, which is really what ends up producing results. So I know we're gonna get there, but I had a similar kind of, I guess, mental transition in around twenty fourteen. Yeah. Right. Probably when you were working, at our house. But, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen is when I really started getting serious about listening to to BiggerPockets podcast different podcasts and reading books. And it just the mental shift that it creates for you when you change your thought environment is you can't be overemphasized. It's it's just so valuable. Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. I think a lot of people, like, who don't do that type of stuff Yeah. It's kinda bogus. Like, oh, you know, your mindset. But it's I mean, it is so true. Obviously, you still have to take action. Right? You can't just have this this great mindset, and all of a sudden things are gonna start happening. Right? Speaker 0
Right. But, like, Speaker 2
It's I don't know. I don't remember who said the quote. It's like, whether you think you can or you can't Mhmm. You're right. Speaker 0
You're probably right. Speaker 2
You know? Yeah. Yeah. So it's like You you have and I think some of it's a, confidence thing too. Right? Confidence is is a huge momentum builder Speaker 0
It's huge. Speaker 2
In my in my opinion, in any Speaker 0
For sure. Speaker 2
In sports, in in, you know, business, just it's it's a great mindset tool. Speaker 0
Yep. For sure. And and I know for me, it is I switched to okay. I stopped and it's easy. Like, this isn't I still fall in still fall into the negative mindset stuff. So don't I don't want anyone to think that I'm just saying I'm perfect with this. But but I definitely had a an intentional shift toward wait a minute. What are my strengths? What are who's on my team? Okay. My my father has been a real estate agent for decades. I used to work for a title company and a mortgage broker at that. I never considered that a real strength, right, or valuable experience. You know, all these things, you just start looking at your network and who's on who's on my side. What are what resources do I have? And and it does create a a a shift toward the positive and toward confidence of maybe I can do this first deal, you know, something like that as opposed to, oh, I have to work this full time job, and and I don't have time or you know, it's just a mental shift, which is really powerful. So you started listening to all these podcasts, reading books. For me, cash flow quadrant was actually more powerful. I I liked Rich Dad Poor Dad, and and it is definitely a mental like, it encourages you to think differently. Mhmm. Speaker 2
But Speaker 0
I liked getting into the kind of the difference between an entrepreneur, self employed per or self employed business owner, investor, and employee, I think, are the four. But in the his other Speaker 2
book as well. Yep. Speaker 0
So take it from there. What what what you know, how did that that kind of education and and intention of of get soaking up all this real estate investing knowledge, how how did that eventually turn into you quitting your job and and maybe doing your first deal? Speaker 2
Yeah. So early twenty when did COVID hit? Twenty twenty? So early twenty twenty. I was up late, like, you know, researching stuff and and kind of trying to figure things out, and I just I just pulled the trigger. I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna start an LLC. And I don't advise, like, making big life decisions without consulting your spouse. Like and and my wife has been absolutely amazing. Like, she biggest support of mine, you know, because it hasn't been easy on her either, the transition. Like, it's it doesn't just affect me. Right? It affects her and our whole family. Yeah. But I I I woke up the next day. I was like, hey. I'd I'd, you know, create an LLC. She's like, you did what? Like, what what's going on here? Yeah. I mean, she was on board, but it it just was like a surprise to her. But Sure. I just I just was sick of not taking action. Right? Yeah. And I think that's a huge thing is the analysis paralysis. You could think about something so so much Mhmm. That you just you overanalyze and you just don't take the action. Now I'm not saying just do things without thinking about it. Right? But you can only think about something so long, and then you just have to do it. And you're gonna make mistakes. Right? But that's how you learn. You you, you know, you're you're gonna figure it out. Right? So I started this LLC, and, I I I I think something that's interesting and and for anybody who's not an entrepreneur yet or is is, like, trying to get started, you don't have to have any money to to start stuff. Like, I I literally had no money to start the business. Like, we had money. Right? But I I didn't wanna use, like, our savings or anything. I just wanted to try to get it started. So Mhmm. I had an agreement with my wife. I was like, alright. I'll I'll, you know, figure out how to get the money to start the LLC in the business on my own. So I literally I took a bunch of old Pokemon cards and video games and and sold them on eBay and made enough money. I think it was, like, fifteen hundred and two thousand bucks to kind of, like, start the LLC and get things going. And so I just wanna you know, I I don't want new entrepreneurs to to, like, be like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't have any money. Like, how how am I gonna get this started? Just figure it out. You know? And that's what I did. Right? So I bought my first property in two thousand twenty, I think May or something. I'm not sure. Mhmm. We also had a baby, like, right around that time. So there was a lot of stuff going on. Okay? Speaker 0
Especially with with COVID, there's a lot Speaker 2
going on. Right. So so we got COVID. Right? Yeah. We have no help from our family, because, you know, it's like we couldn't receive each other. We have a new baby. I'm trying to start this business. I'm still working a full w two job. Right? Mhmm. And I I was trying to do all of that at once, and I I felt like I just wasn't doing a good job at anything because it's like Yeah. I had too much stuff going on. Right? Like, I wasn't home very much. I wasn't helpful to my wife and the kids. Mhmm. I I was going to my w two job, but I wasn't fully mentally there because I was also trying to do this flip at the same time. Right? And so I think maybe in September, I realized it is I just I have to quit. Like, I cannot do both at the same time, and I was I just I just took that leap of faith, which was it was tough. It was really tough. My wife was working at the time, so it made it a little bit easier. Right? So because, you know, when you go into real estate, if you're gonna flip a house or or anything. Right? Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
You don't have a paycheck for however long that first split takes. Right? And so I don't think I paid myself for the first five months that I started it. But it did help out that my wife was still working. Right? Yeah. And Speaker 0
And so Speaker 2
yeah. Who It can it was definitely thought of. Speaker 0
Can you say who you were working for? Speaker 2
I I I can. Do you want me to? Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
Smith House. Speaker 0
Yeah. So we had Dave Smith on on a prior episode for the listener to go go check that one out. Speaker 2
Great company. Speaker 0
It's yeah. Great company. They they do fantastic work in, in Maryland custom, high end remodeling, and I think maybe some ground up construction. I'm not sure. But, yeah, I I think it's cool that, like and and, obviously, you could speak more to this than I can, but you had exposure to the investment side of things before. And now even if Dave isn't specifically in, you know, in in real estate investing, their company I mean, he built that from scratch, and I know you were a big part of the growth of that his company. So I just think from an entrepreneurship standpoint, you got to see, some of the ups and downs and the and the pain points and the successes of Smith House and and the growth they've had. So I'm sure that benefited you as well. Speak to so people say, well, don't don't quit your job, and and there's no there's no one size fits all. Speaker 2
Right? Speaker 0
We know that there's everybody's situation is different. Mhmm. But people say, well, wait till you have enough, you know, income that matches your w two income, from your side hustle before you quit. We know what you actually did, but what would you say to that about that guidance? Speaker 2
Yeah. I would just say sometimes I think people use stuff like that as an excuse because they're just afraid. Right? Speaker 0
Mhmm. Yeah. Speaker 2
I think if you say, I I need to get to this before I do this, that can hold you back. Right? So it is going to be it is going to be a risk. Right? There's I mean, it's to me, it's it's kinda like a slightly high risk, but even higher reward. Mhmm. You're gonna you you might have to take a step back. Right? So I would say if you have some reserves in the bank, right, for three, four, five months worth of living, right, can you afford or can you stomach to not have a paycheck for that amount of time knowing that you're going to come out on the other end and and and start to rise. Right? You almost you're you're investing in yourself. Right? So you gotta believe in yourself. Speaker 0
Betting on yourself. Absolutely. Speaker 2
And and that's kind of the mindset thing too is you have to if you don't believe in yourself, why should anybody else believe in you that you can do it. Right? So you you have to Yeah. Don't be arrogant about it. Right? But, like, you you have to have this mindset of I'm going to get this done no matter what. And to me, it was like, I'm willing to do anything I have to do because I know it falls on my shoulders to provide for my family. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
There's nothing that I'm not willing to do. Like Yeah. I will never go back to a w two job even if my, like, real estate career, like, failed. Mhmm. Not because I didn't you know? I mean, my my employer was great. Right? But, like, it's the freedom and the the ability to kind of build my own thing that I was looking for. Yeah. Speaker 0
Love that. Speaker 2
It it it was definitely hard early on. Mhmm. It it put some stress on on our family, on our marriage just because I wasn't there as much as as I wanted to be. Mhmm. So, you know, that was tough. That was probably the one of the hardest things. But, now As Speaker 0
far as Speaker 2
I'm I'm able to be home more than I was before. Speaker 0
Yeah. That's awesome. And when people talk about that income matching your income thing, I just always think, well, okay. If you're matching let's say, Mark, you were making seventy five thousand working for Smith House. Obviously, I'm just making numbers up. I didn't know. I had no idea. Dave, oh, Dave always sends me everyone's paycheck. No. Speaker 2
Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Speaker 0
It was just a guess. But, you know, and then you're making seventy five thousand consistently through your flips. I know that's, like, nothing's consistent with flipping, but and then you quit your w two. Well, you still lost seventy five thousand dollars in income. So you're you're still, like, taking a big cut when you quit your w two. So Speaker 2
Right. Speaker 0
No matter what, it's like it's not like it's just, oh, you feel no pain when you quit your w two from it from an income standpoint. So the point is there's never a perfect time to do it. And I am not sitting here saying everyone should immediately quit your your jobs and go jump into entrepreneurship. Trust trust me. It is not easy, and it absolutely can have an impact, on your on your marriage and your relationships and can be super stressful, just entrepreneurship in general. So, you know, I like to keep it real on the show, and it's it's not all rainbows and butterflies and unicorns and but I I one hundred percent agree with you. I mean, you know, most people are just procrastinating if if they think they wanna be an entrepreneur and they're not doing it yet. Do it now or do it in the next year. Set it up in the next year to be able to quit your job if this is really what you wanna do, and bet on yourself. And and here's the thing. I'm I know you said you'd never work a w two again, but let's say it just absolutely failed. Your business was a total failure, and then you tried another one, total failure. Do you do you think you could get a job like you had before? Speaker 2
Oh, absolutely. And I and I honestly think, like, I bring more value to the team now than I did before. Right? Speaker 0
Because Speaker 2
I I have a different mindset. I know what it takes to to run a a business, and that's something that I can always fall back onto. Right? And so that that was my mindset. Like, if if it fails, if I need to go back, I can. I know, you know, I know several companies that would probably hire me Mhmm. In in a heartbeat. Right? And so that gives Speaker 0
me a little bit of comfort. Yeah. Even if is what I like to say. Even if this happens, I'll be okay. Speaker 2
Yeah. So Yeah. But there's a, there's I don't know if it's anybody has this quote, but I heard it on, like, a motivation. I listen to a lot of, like, motivational, like, violations of people actually on YouTube. Mhmm. And, the one guy said, if not now, when? Right? So it's like now when is the time? Now is the time. If you really want to be an entrepreneur Mhmm. Figure it out. Don't don't quit your job today. Right? But but sit down now and figure out, like, what is it gonna take for me to take those steps. Right? Is it sure it might be a month from now. It might be two months, but, like, make that sit down now and figure out what are you looking for. It's different for everybody. Right? What you want is different than what I want. So it's gonna look differently, but the the steps are the same. You gotta take action. You gotta have a a a goal in mind of what you're looking for. Speaker 0
Right. Instead of having, like, I should quit my job someday mindset. Yeah. It's okay. Not today, but, okay, I wanna do it in six months. Okay. Then backwards in the military, we had Speaker 2
Reverse engineering. Speaker 0
Right. Backwards planning because Speaker 2
we were in Speaker 0
the army, and that those were more simple terms than reverse engineering. But, yeah, you're like, okay. Then what do I need to accomplish in five months? Then Then what do I need to accomplish in four months? Three, two, one. What do I need to do today then? Right? Okay. So your first deal, how did that go? And then I I know you had a major loss on a deal with Deep Creek I wanna get to. Speaker 2
So Exciting. Good stuff. Speaker 0
Yeah. Let's focus on your your losses. Right? Speaker 2
Not talk about that one? No. Just kidding. Yeah. So I'll kinda dive into a little bit about, Speaker 0
like Yeah. Speaker 2
How I how I funded it and all that type of stuff. It's because there's a lot of different, a lot of different ways to do things. Yeah. You know, there's more than one way to skin a cat in terms of real estate. Speaker 0
Now is this this is your first deal that we're talking about? Speaker 2
Yep. Just a quick So my very first deal, I think purchase price was around a hundred thousand. We bought it off the MLS on Okay. An auction site, Hubzu. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
And, I had my agent like, we my good friend was an agent, and we used to, like, just go look at properties. And and this one kind of, like, fit fit our criteria, so we've been on it. Had to up our bid a little bit, but ended up getting it. Immediately had buyer's remorse. I was like, what am I doing? Mhmm. I'm buying this house. I have no clue what I'm doing. Right? You know, I was sometimes I still get nervous when I buy it. You know? It's like, is this gonna be good or bad? Who knows? So but I I had no money. Like I said before, I I had, like, zero dollars to my name in terms of the business. Right? Like, you Speaker 0
know, I Speaker 2
have my own personal savings or whatever, but Mhmm. Zero dollars in the business right now because we're just starting. So I'm like, alright. How do I how do I do this? Right? It's not like it's it's the the mindset. Like, oh, I can't do this because I don't have money. Well, I don't have money, so how can I do this? Right? Mhmm. I had another friend who wanted to get into real estate but was working a full time job and didn't have time, but he had the cash available. So I I coupled his cash. So he funded, all of the it's called a gap funding. Right? So when you when you buy a property, typically, a lot of investors or most investors will use what's called hard money. Mhmm. And, you pay a a premium for the interest, and they they charge an upfront fee to use their money. Mhmm. And it's it's generally more expensive if you've done no deals. Right? So Mhmm. The more deals you get, the less expensive it gets, and it gets easier to to come by. Sure. But they won't lend on the entire deal. Generally, they'll lend, like, up to ninety percent of the purchase price and then, like, maybe a hundred percent of the rehab. Right? So I have to come with ten percent down and pay for closing costs. So I used, my friend to and say, hey, man. Like, you go into this property. You fund all of the money I need, and we'll we'll split the cost fifty fifty of the profit, whatever that is. Mhmm. And he was like, alright. Let's do it. So and I did all the work. Right? Mhmm. I'm I'm a licensed contractor myself, so I did a lot of the work myself, but I obviously had to sub out, like, some of the trades and things like that. Mhmm. So halfway through the deal, I was like, okay. This fifty fifty split scenario is not gonna work in the future. I wasn't gonna back out on it now. So I Sure. I went to him and said, hey. I know this is working now, but in the future, like, this is not gonna work, just because it was it was a ton of work. Right? And Speaker 0
And mind you, I wanna just this was twenty twenty still just to paint the picture. So it's like, everything will like, the world was shut down. Like Right. So just the fact that you're still taking action, I think, is impressive because Speaker 2
Yeah. Speaker 0
It'd be so easy to say, well, let's see how the next year shakes out with market conditions and things. And so just wanna point that out that the fact that you're still moving forward during that time, you know, is just impressive. Alright. So you're doing all the work. You bring the sweat equity. He he put the money up, and you're supposed Speaker 2
to do Speaker 0
a fifty fifty split of the profits. Yep. Speaker 2
So we get we get to the end. We list the property, and I think I mean, this is when the real estate market, like, just skyrocketed. Speaker 0
Oh, right. Right. Speaker 2
You know, everything was going for over asking. I don't remember exactly. I think it was, like, twenty or thirty k over asking, which I I almost, like, fell off my chair when my agent called me and said, oh, we got this offer in. I'm like, oh, wow. Now we didn't make that much money. I think we only made, like, forty grand. So, like, have we not got the over asking that we got? Mhmm. Like, it wouldn't have been that great of a deal. Right. But my mindset was, if I break even on this first like, that was my goal. I don't wanna lose money on this first deal. I just wanna get a deal under my belt. If I break even, I've learned the process. I've built some relationships. That was my, you know, bottom line. Mhmm. So to walk away with, you know, I guess, twenty grand from the sale, like, a little less than twenty grand from it, was huge. Was he was a huge Speaker 0
win. Absolutely. Speaker 2
I Speaker 0
mean, plus you got the education. You got the you started your track record to say, hey. I already I have this successful deal under my belt for the next one, and you made money. I mean, that's win win win. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yep. And I still use that same the same guy as as, like, a private lender. It's just not an equity based lending. It's just Speaker 0
a Gotcha. Speaker 2
Interest type thing. Speaker 0
Yeah. It's it's a loan. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. So that that's kinda how my first deal went, and and I was I mean, I was hooked after that. I was like, okay. How do I keep how do I keep doing this? Now they're obviously and we'll get into this. They're not all wins. Right? Like Yeah. Sometimes you lose money, but yeah, sometimes you But I Speaker 0
think that's that's interesting. An interesting point though is because, is the fact that that can you know, if you'd lost twenty grand on your first deal, I don't know. Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I I do think about that. It's like, okay. If you lose twenty, thirty, forty grand on your first flip, like, that might be it for you, to be honest. Yeah. And so I think that's what scares a lot of people away. But Mhmm. Yep. You know? Speaker 0
Yeah. Obviously, that's not what happened. So okay. And then how many deals did you do before you got to this the the the deal we're not gonna talk about? Speaker 2
I don't know. Maybe maybe another five deals or so. Mhmm. Okay. Speaker 0
And just to your your goal with all this, your strategy is is is what? Fix and flip and then peel off some rentals if it makes sense, or what's what's your approach big picture? Speaker 2
Yeah. Big picture is, rental portfolio. Like, that's big picture. Mhmm. I wanna have a rental portfolio, maybe up to at least sixty rentals, sixty doors. Because then I think that gets me the the truly, truly passive net income Mhmm. That I'm work looking for. Now Yeah. You say I say passive. It's it's a full time job. If I'm managing those properties, that's a full time job just to manage sixty rentals. Right? But where I don't have to look for other deals, and it provides the income that I need. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
And that's my long term, retirement. Right? So in thirty years I'm I'm thirty I'll be thirty six this year, actually, tomorrow. Oh, perfect. Thank you. And so in thirty years, in theory, all of these rentals are gonna be paid off because that's generally what I I do as a thirty year mortgage Uh-huh. Thirty year note. Yep. It'd be nicer if we paid them off earlier. Right? If we get a lump sum of, you know, cash, like, maybe maybe we throw some of that cash at them to kinda pay them down a little bit more. But in theory, in thirty years, like, they're all gonna be cash flowing a significant amount. Right? So that's my retirement. And I can sell one property probably per year. And Yeah. Just from the sale of that property, it probably pays for my expenses for the for that whole year. So that's kind of my mindset of, like, why I wanna rent a portfolio and and why I've chosen, like, sixty doors is kind of, like, the minimum that I you know, if I if I get to sixty, I can stop. Mhmm. And that's not just like a, hey. I want sixty doors. I've I've thought through, like, Speaker 0
Right. The reason behind it. Speaker 2
How much money do I need? How much are they gonna bring in? All that stuff. Sure. Speaker 0
And so but in twenty twenty, you might have been a little more focused on flips because you needed the income Correct. Large chunk of capital that comes in all at once to to pay your bills for your for your family. Speaker 2
So in so in twenty twenty, I think I just did that one flip. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
And then in twenty twenty one is when I started ramping up. Like, I think we did, like, five rental properties in twenty twenty one. Nice. It's hard for me to keep track of, like, the years. Like, it just kind of all Right. Meld together. Right? And then, you know, I think we did, like, four or five flips that year. But it's it's hard for me to remember quite logically what happens, like, when. But Yeah. That's kind of a general general Speaker 0
I'm helping you work on your your story. Speaker 2
Yeah. Speaker 0
But, so okay. Let's talk about Deep Creek, the the deal we're Speaker 2
we we said Speaker 0
we're not gonna talk about. Yeah. Adversity to abundance. Right? Speaker 2
That's right. Speaker 0
That's that's the point of the show is to talk about the real, you know, pain points in some of this stuff because if you can't handle, you know, pain points and adversity, you should not be be an entrepreneur. I mean Speaker 2
It's every it's an everyday it's an everyday thing. Speaker 0
Absolutely. So, what happened? What was the talk us talk us through the the deal the details on this Deep Creek deal. Yeah. Sorry. Maryland sorry. But Deep Creek, Maryland, for those listening who are not familiar, is a popular vacation spot, on a on a lake in Western Maryland, that can be nice in in both, all seasons, really. So it's pretty and it's really grown a lot. Speaker 2
Ski resort ski resort close by. It's got a a nice lake. Speaker 0
Yep. Speaker 2
Yeah. So here so here's here's the deal. Okay? We bought we bought a, a a property that we turned into an Airbnb. Like, that was the goal. So because we wanted a we like the Deep Creek area. We wanted a a kind of, like, a a vacation house that we could go to that was also cash flowing. So that so it was like, okay. Deep Creek's a pretty good Airbnb spot. So we bought this house. It it was tough to find, like, contractors and people to work on it because, it's, you know, it's we're in Baltimore, and it's, like, three hours away, right, from where we live. And so it it was just a hard process to to find that. But then we finally eventually found the people that, you know, we needed to use, and and things were moving and grooving. The property turned out well, air quotes. It it appraised for significantly more than what I thought it would. And so if Speaker 0
if Speaker 2
people don't understand the process of of, like, burning, which is the buy rehab, rent, refinance, repeat strategy Yeah. The goal is to is to buy houses under value, add value, and then refinance out of your short term hard money loan Mhmm. And cash out all of the cash that you've invested and sometimes more. Right? Mhmm. So it appraised for such and and it all it's all driven on the appraised value. The appraisal after you fix it up is what drives everything. Right? Speaker 0
The ARV. Right? Speaker 2
The ARV. Yep. So it appraised for significantly more than what I thought it would. And I I was, like, blown away. I'm like, man, I need to buy all these properties in in Deep Creek because this this thing is is insane. Speaker 0
What kinda what what kind of numbers do are we talking about? Speaker 2
Yeah. So it appraised I think we bought it for, like, a hundred thousand and maybe put a hundred and fifty into it. Oh, wow. And it appraised for, like, four eighty or something crazy. So so we cashed out a significant amount of money Sure. After you know? Now those numbers sounds like, oh, it's cost a hundred thousand. You put a hundred and fifty into it. Well, you made, like, you know, two hundred thousand dollars. Well, that's not true because there's a lot of other lender fees and, like, all these other things. Speaker 0
So Holding costs. Speaker 2
Closer yeah. Holding costs. It was probably closer to, like, sixty thousand or something Speaker 0
that we Speaker 2
cashed out. Okay. So, essentially, we had this this cash flowing Airbnb that we we got paid sixty thousand dollars, essentially Yeah. To to own. I mean, it's it's not like income, but it's because you're you have a different you just have a different loan. So you've leveraged a different loan to to basically have a little bit more money. Yeah. So I'm like, okay. Wow. This is incredible. I'm gonna I'm gonna start investing heavily in Deep Creek. Right? Mhmm. Well, here's the issue and and for any new investors out there, you gotta know your area that you're investing in. I thought I knew it because I had done one deal, and I was, you know, puffing my chest out and was like, man, I can do anything up here. Well, come to find out, like, the contract that we had used did not do a good job. Mhmm. And we didn't know this until afterwards. Right? Like, the the, the kitchen sink was never connected to the main drain, and we had a garbage disposal. So there was, like, we were like, what is that snow? Like, we went up there. There was all this food in the crawl space. I'm like, dude, come on. Speaker 0
Wow. Speaker 2
So so so what happened was we bought another property up there because I was like, I need to start heavily investing in in, Deep Creek. It it wasn't as close to the lake. Mhmm. And so the the market, like, right around the lake is is is very good because that's where peep investors buy there. Right? But we were maybe this new property was maybe ten minutes off the lake. Mhmm. Whereas the first property was, like, right on the lake. Right? Mhmm. Totally different market even though it's, like, fairly close. Right? Like, in in in Baltimore, if Yeah. Speaker 0
You have a house very block by block. Speaker 2
Yeah. Right? So it's it's kinda the same thing, whereas, you know, it might be the same ZIP code, but it's, like, totally different boundary. Speaker 0
Has a house in Little Italy. And if you go little bit northeast, it's, extremely different. Speaker 2
Yeah. So I experienced that, you know, firsthand. So we bought this property, had the same contractor that we worked on before. This is prior to us realizing his quality of work was not great. And we put it on the market. So we finished the rehab, put it on the market, and I think we put it on for, like, three twenty five. And this was back in, like, September or October or November or some sometime towards the winter season. Mhmm. And we had, like, one showing in several weeks. And this is when the market was like, you know, you get Yeah. Thirty showings in a weekend Speaker 0
of offers. Speaker 2
And, you know, multiple offers, and you're under contract in less than a week. Speaker 0
Not a good sign. Speaker 2
Yeah. Not a good sign. So then then we drop the price by, like, twenty twenty five thousand. Still not many showings. Dropped the price another twenty five thousand. Still not many showings. So, like, we dropped it seventy five grand. Right? And we were projecting to make, like, fifty off of it at our original price. This is the quote that we're working on just so I'm clear. Yeah. Speaker 0
You still have the the the short term rental that you that you can use. Right? At this point I still Speaker 2
saying at that at Speaker 0
the not not today. Speaker 2
Right. I'm saying at this time point, still have the short term rental up there. Right. Right? Speaker 0
And you're trying to sell this flip Speaker 2
at the same time. And the short term rental was going okay. You know, it wasn't cash flowing as much as we wanted, but it was still it was still cash flowing, so we were fine there. Speaker 0
Gotcha. Yep. Speaker 2
So in my mind, I'm like, I'm freaking out because I'm like, okay. We might lose how much are we gonna lose on this property? Mhmm. I don't know. How long is it gonna sit on the market? Mhmm. It had been on the market at this point probably five months. Speaker 0
Wow. Speaker 2
And we had, like, maybe six showings and no offers. And I'm just like, okay. And I'm I still haven't done that many deals, and I don't have a ton, a ton of capital in the bank to, like, suffer through, like, a huge loss. Sure. Because we'd at this point, we'd already bought some other rental properties and had to invest some of our cash into those rental properties. Right? Speaker 0
Uh-huh. And you had, like, some more kids at this point and maybe Speaker 2
I think we may have so we had one for sure at this point. And and I think, yeah, I think we had I think we had had our second at that point. Speaker 0
Yeah. So there's a little more pressure from that angle too. Speaker 2
Definitely a lot of pressure. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was in a a pretty dark place. Like, very, very dark. Like, depressed is a strong word, but, like Yeah. You know, I'm generally not a depressed person. I I don't Mhmm. Generally get have depression. But I was I was, like, on the verge of, like, do I need to stop what I'm doing and go back to work or something? Yeah. It was it was it was tough, and it and it definitely, I'm thankful that I went through that experience because it it helped me grow in my faith, and I'll I'll explain that in a minute. So we finally got an offer on the house. We were gonna lose, I think, the offer I think we lost, like, over forty grand on it. Speaker 0
Wow. Speaker 2
But interestingly enough, before we got the offer, we were like, okay. Let's sell our Airbnb Mhmm. Because we can make a we can make a profit off the Airbnb. And it was it was just hard for us to manage too. We were self managing it. It was it was tough. It was tough to do from being three hours away. Right? So my wife and I talked, and we're like, alright. Let's just sell the Airbnb. You know, that'll release some stress, and, you know, hopefully, we'll we'll get some cash to, you know, kinda offset this loss. Yeah. And this is where, like, my faith because I I believe that that God has a plan, everything in plan and in place for me. It's really tough for us to to trust in that a lot of times. Especially as an entrepreneur, you're you're like, alright. Where's my next deal? What's going on? You know, what's happening? Right. Speaker 0
You like to control everything. Speaker 2
I do. I do. I like to control. There's a lot of that questioning between me and God. Like, I I'm trying to trust you here, but what is going on, you know, with this property? So before we were under contract on the house that we were losing money on, we put the Airbnb up on the market. Mhmm. We ended up getting an offer on the house that we lost money on and on the Airbnb. So we were under contract on both. Mhmm. And they both we've sold and settled on them on the exact same day. Wow. Which to me is, like, mind blowing. Like, God really had this in plan. Right? Like, that was not an accident. And the the the proceeds from the one house that the Airbnb that we sold and the loss from the other house that we flipped Speaker 0
The flip. Speaker 2
Were almost, like, a net even. Like, so we almost broke even. So we lost, like, you know, forty some thousand on the one, and we gained, like, forty some thousand on the sale of the Airbnb. So that to me is another was another testimony. Speaker 0
Huge blessing. I mean, it could've been so much worse. Speaker 2
It I mean, obviously, you know, if I didn't lose the the forty or fifty thousand, like, that would have been nice. Right? Speaker 0
That would have been great. Sure. Speaker 2
But it has it helped it has helped me it helps me even today. I think back to that time often when something's not going the way that I want it to go. Yeah. Is that, hey. There's a plan that is set in place, and I may not know or see what that plan is Mhmm. Until after it happens. And I think I can I try to use that in all facets facets of my life, not just in business? Speaker 0
Love that. Speaker 2
So so that was that was hard. That was tough. Yeah. I'm glad I went through it because it has helped me grow Right. To where I am today. Speaker 0
So now you're seeking out more adversity? Speaker 2
Yeah. That's right. I just look for bad deals to buy because I wanna say grow. You know? Speaker 0
I wanna be I wanna be so much more thankful. Yeah. But so a couple of quick questions because we're about out of time, and I do have some rapid fire questions for you too. Speaker 2
Sure. Speaker 0
But, did you consider I'm sure you did, but consider renting out the other the second property, the flip? Speaker 2
I did. I mean, I looked at all different options. I was like, okay. If I rent it out, how much because I was gonna lose money each month if I rented it out. Uh-huh. But I'm like, is it worth I like to look at all different angles. I was like, okay. Is it worth losing, you know, five hundred bucks a month or whatever it was? Speaker 0
Like, spread out that loss of time. Speaker 2
Loss. Right? Or is it better to lose forty grand at once? Speaker 0
Right. Right. Speaker 2
And I was on the verge of saying I'd rather just lose five hundred a month because I can stomach that. If I had millions and millions of dollars in the bank, a forty grand loss is is no big deal. Right? But I'm still I was still a newer and I'm I'm still new today. Right? Yeah. You know? Newer. Right? As a newer entrepreneur, it's it's harder to stomach those things. Mhmm. Right? So, yeah, the thought crossed my mind. It just it just didn't make sense. And when the offer came in, it was like, okay. Let's let's just cut the losses and move on. Speaker 0
Well, the other thing I wanna point out too is for the real estate investor out there who's looking for deals, you don't know what the seller has going on. So in this case, Mark had, you know, a lot of things going on that had nothing to do with that short term rental. Yes. The short term rental, the the craftsmanship was less than desirable from your your contractor. And, you know, yes, you made money on the deal. Like, yes, you were self managing. But, like, the the property itself, it sounds like, was in a good location and was is still a good investment, you know, for somebody. What I'm saying is they don't know about your other deal that is really taking your focus away from the short term rental. And so people say, like, why would the seller there must be something wrong with this with the seller selling this. You know? It's like, well, they may need to sell for some other reason. And I know you Absolutely. You get you buy deals at at a discount all the time, so you know this as well as anyone. But it doesn't mean that there's just something inherently wrong with this property is my point. Is you're you're whoever bought that deal from you really solved a big problem for you. Speaker 2
Absolutely. Speaker 0
And, you know, and it wasn't just because that of that property by itself. So there's a there's a lot of factors that go in. There's a human element, and there's a Mark's personal story and and the family elements and and all this play plays into this, that particular deal that you sold. So, you know, when people say, well, why is this guy selling this? There must be something wrong with it. Well, he might just need to sell for reasons completely unrelated to the property itself. And I shouldn't say he There's Speaker 2
always there's always a a form of motivation. You just gotta figure out what it is. My motivation was I need to sell this because I need to offset this other loss. Right. Exactly. You know, somebody else who's selling is might have a completely different motivation. Speaker 0
Yeah. So if you look at the Deep Creek experience, those two deals as a whole, what were one or two of your biggest lessons learned? Speaker 2
Focusing on, like, having having a laser focus on what you're trying to achieve. Because I'll tell you, as soon as I sold those properties, I felt like my business was so much more, healthy or, like, successful. So Yeah. I mean, it just was a very big distraction because, number one, it was so far away. It was hard to get like, I as an entrepreneur, I'm I'm I'm like, let's get stuff done. Like, if I have to go do it myself, I'll I'll go do it. But Yeah. I'm not gonna drive three hours to go change a light bulb or something. Right? Whereas if I have a property in Baltimore, I'll just drive, you know, however far and Mhmm. And change something really quick if I absolutely need to. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
So I think I think I got distracted and, was trying to do maybe too many things at once. And Yep. I wasn't fully submersed into my own market before I started to go try to tap into another market. Speaker 0
And I Speaker 2
think that was a mistake that I made. And, you know I think it's a common Yeah. It was Common entrepreneur. Kinda bittersweet selling the Airbnb because it was, like, you know, a place that I, like, envision our family going to for years to come. Right? And it's like, okay. We're gonna we're gonna pay this down. It's you know, we're gonna have this for however many years. But in hindsight, it it was the best thing that we ever did in terms of getting rid of it just because it it kind of relieved a lot of stress, helped us offset that loss, and we learned a lot of lessons kinda moving forward. Speaker 0
Well, you you still have time to get another Deep Creek property. You're only, what, thirty six, you said, tomorrow? Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Are you ready for rapid fire questions? Speaker 2
Let's go. Speaker 0
Alright. What is one thing that people misunderstand about you? This one's a tough one. Speaker 2
Misunderstand about me. I don't know. I I think sometimes, I've always looked to young. I don't know if this is this is a good answer, but I'm just gonna go with it. I've always looked really young. Right? And so I think people look at me. I've had so many comments over the years of, like, oh, wow. Like, you look so young to be, you know, doing this or doing that. Like, I don't know how old people think I am, but part of it's like I can't grow facial hair. Right? So, like, this is this is like a week worth of facial hair for me. So You Speaker 0
did that for the podcast? Speaker 2
I did. Yeah. Specifically, you know, I wanted to look a little older. So I think I think people maybe, have some sort of preconceived, mindset of of, you know, who I am because it's like, oh, this, you know, this ten year old Like, Speaker 0
how much how much knowledge you should have at this point Speaker 2
or something. Yeah. If you Speaker 0
could give your eighteen year old self some advice, what would that be? Speaker 2
Don't smoke so much weed. No. I think just taking action. Like, I honestly think that taking action is one of the biggest things that that people miss about doing anything. And and for instance, like, you know, people will say, oh, I'm, you know, I'm just I'm praying that God will provide x, y, and z for me. And it's like, okay. Yeah. That's great. But he's not gonna do that for you if you don't take the action. Right? Like, I heard this quote. It was from, Andy Andrews has a book. What's it called? The seven decisions. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
Do you know do you know Andy Andrews? Speaker 0
Read that one, Speaker 2
though. He he also read the traveler's gift, which is really Oh, I've seen it. Book. Speaker 0
I know who you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2
It's it's just a it's just a fun book to listen. It's kinda like a story. Right? But, anyway, in the seven decisions, he says he makes the comment, and I think he's a Christian as well. God pro God promises to provide for the bird. Right? That's a scripture. In in scripture, it says Yeah. You know, he provides for the for the sparrow or whatever. Yeah. He doesn't he doesn't promise to put the worm in the nest. So I I took on, like, that is, I mean, that is, like, so good. Right? Like, you have to take the action for him. Like, you can pray all you want, but if you're not taking action, nothing's gonna happen. Speaker 0
Yeah. Absolutely. Right. My wife and I are working through the the chosen series, and, Jesus and the disciples definitely took a lot of action. That's for sure. What is one or two books that you could recommend besides the ones you've already mentioned? Speaker 2
It's funny. I thought about that as we as I was coming on because I was like, if he asked me, I'm gonna I'm gonna recommend the traveler's gift or the seven decisions. But Okay. Would say either one of those books or, I mean, I I really I go back to Rich Dad Poor Dad. It's probably not the greatest book I've ever read, but it was a it was a good book, and it's what kind of started my whole mindset shift. Right? Yeah. And and mindset is everything to me. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
I constantly have to work on my mindset, every day about, you know, what what am I thinking? What am I what am I trying to achieve? Things like that. So, I I always go back to that book as as one of my one of my go tos. Or any bigger pockets book. They're all good. Speaker 0
Yeah. And my book. Right? Speaker 2
Well, I was gonna say there's a book right in the background right there. That's phenomenal. Speaker 0
From adversity to abundance. That's what you meant to say. Speaker 2
Yeah. I I failed that question. My bad. Wrong. Speaker 0
What is one thing that you've seen in real estate investing that's controversial or potentially unethical, just broadly speaking? Speaker 2
Yeah. I think there are, some investors. I think house flippers get a very like, get a bad rap. You know? It's obvious house was flipped. It must be trash. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
And that's and that I mean, that is the case for for some, like Sure. You know, there are some con some flippers who I've heard, it's like, okay. You know, there's there's rotting wood in in the walls. Cover it up with drywall. You know? Speaker 0
Leave it. Yeah. Speaker 2
Yeah. Leave it and and just hope nobody notices. So but to me, like, I don't I don't care if it costs me more money. I would rather fix those things because of who I am. Right? I don't wanna sell somebody. Even if they're never gonna know or never gonna see it, I don't wanna sell somebody a house like that. Right? So, I think there's there's an easy, it's easy for for real estate investors and entrepreneurs to get caught up in, like, I gotta I gotta have more of this. I gotta have more of that. I gotta have more of this. Mhmm. And maybe to, like, you know, screw somebody else over just to, like, help yourself. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
Now that's not to say, like, most of the people in our real estate field, like, it is kind of like a it's a large group, but it's kind of a small community. Like, most of the people are helpful. So I don't wanna say that you know, give all these people a bad rap. I'm just saying Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
If if there was something negative, it would it would kinda be those those types of things. Speaker 0
I mean, unfortunately fortunately and unfortunately, there's a low barrier to entry to become a, quote, unquote, real estate investor, and that can take on many, many shapes and sizes. But Mhmm. Therefore, and same thing in the mortgage note space where I'm more focused, there there's some shady people. And, yes, it's probably less than five percent of the the group, but, there are ripple effects. But, so looking forward in the real estate investing space, you know, whether we're talking Maryland or just broadly, what are some emerging challenges that you see, for real estate entrepreneurs moving forward? Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I think I think the change in the market potentially, it's it's still still pretty good today. I mean, I've seen it it depends on the area. So, like, when COVID first hit and I I find myself lucky because I feel like I got in at a good time. Right? Because right when I got in, it was like houses were selling over over asking, and everybody was waiving inspections. And that type of stuff is still happening today Mhmm. But in specific areas. Right? So, like, I had a house, in the city recently that sat on the market for, like, four months. Nice house, like, decent renovation. Just the price point was higher, and it was surrounded by other house like, other like, the neighborhood was nice. Right? But you go one block over, and it's, like, not a nice neighborhood. Mhmm. So, I think that's a that's a challenge moving forward is even for me, like, trying to figure out, like, what is the market doing, it's just a little bit harder. Mhmm. But I do also think that that brings opportunities because I think that people are gonna be nervous. People are people are always nervous and scared about the market. Right? Especially, like, with, like, the election coming up and stuff like that. I don't I don't wanna get into politics, but that type of stuff affects the market sometimes. Right? And so Sure. For me, like, I'm I'm definitely making sure that I'm, when I'm analyzing deals, I am giving myself a good margin. I'm still making offers, still trying to buy properties. It's just you gotta buy right Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
To make it work. Speaker 0
Be a little more careful. Yeah. Makes makes total sense. So who should reach out to you? Who who are you trying to connect with? I know you you deal with hard money lenders, private lenders. You need a a lending source in general, and you need deal flow. Those are kinda and you, obviously, you need subcontractors and things to to do the the deals. But who, who are you trying to serve, and who should who should connect with you? Speaker 2
Yeah. And and I didn't talk about this that much, but I I do want like, I want to bring it's part of the reason, like, why I was excited to to come on a podcast. I wanna bring value to every to anybody. Right? Mhmm. Bringing value. There have been so many investors that have brought me value, and I wanna I wanna return that favor to to whoever. Right? So Mhmm. Anybody who's a new entrepreneur or trying to get into the real estate field, I'm happy to answer any questions or or help them out in any way I can. And I'm always trying to make connections with with other private lenders, which private lenders are, like, just, you know, regular individuals like, you know, your uncle or friend or whoever, to invest with me. I always wanna make connections with other wholesalers. And it's it's not just about, like, what what what can I get from you? It's like, hey. How can we how can we work together? Like, if you're a wholesaler, you bring me deals. You bring me value by bringing me deals. I bring you value by by buying your deals. Right? So it's kind of it's kind of like a circle of value type thing. Sure. No. I love it. I mean Anybody who wants to reach out to me. You know? I mean, listen. I I've been doing this for four years, so I still have a lot of room to grow. Right? And sometimes when I'm in a room with other higher higher level entrepreneurs, I'm like, man, I don't know anything. Yeah. But then but then when somebody who doesn't know anything talks to me, I feel like I have so much information to share with you. So it's kind of Speaker 0
like much you've learned. Speaker 2
Yeah. Right? So Speaker 0
And you've been doing I mean, yes, actively for years, but, you know, like I said, you've been in construction most of your life. You've, worked for investors and entrepreneurs most of your life before, you know, before becoming one yourself. And so, you've been involved in real estate and construction for longer than four years, but but, absolutely, I hear what you're saying. There's always a ton more to learn and somebody that's way ahead of you, but but you're we forget. You know? I I I do mentorship in mortgage note investing, and some of the sometimes I forget that you know, some of the questions I'll get are how do I start an LLC? I'm I'm just like, oh, I I forgot that's a thing that you have like, you know, that's important. Right? Speaker 2
And then how Speaker 0
do I get a bank account? Oh, I need to get an EIN from the IRS before I can get a bank account. That's right. You know, these little things that you you might take for granted depending on how far along you are. And and, also, your path is very different from somebody else's, like you said before. So you're gonna have even if someone's ten years in and you're only four years in, you're gonna know things that that person doesn't know. So we can all help each other. And I can tell from the Facebook groups that I've seen you in that you're always trying to add value and make it a mutually beneficial scenario so you can grow with with others. And and, you know, that's that's what we need more of. I mean, capitalism and entrepreneurship gets a get get a bad rap because of a few bad apples. But, ultimately, we're trying to add value, like you said, and flippers, generally speaking, add value to a neighborhood and, and add value to everyone they come in contact with. So awesome. Well, Mark, where can our listeners reach out to you? Where can they find you online? Speaker 2
Yeah. We don't have, like, a massive social media presence. I mean, I I'm I'm on Speaker 0
Well, now this episode's out, so that's gonna change. Right. Speaker 2
Yeah. It's we're just gonna, you know, go we're gonna go from one one follower to, you know, two. Yeah. So, you can I mean, you can reach out to me on on Facebook? I have, you know, my own Facebook, but we also have a, Speaker 0
And spell your last name. Speaker 2
P a s s e r e l l I. So you can reach out to me on Facebook. You can find us on on Facebook and Instagram as well. Phoenix Estates, is the is the company name. Speaker 0
And Why'd you pick that name? Speaker 2
It's a it's a faith based thing thing for me. So, actually, I have a I have a tattoo of a phoenix, and I was trying to think through, like so the so the the this is kind of a long story, so I'll just I'll try to be as short as I can. The the phoenix to me is like a revitalization of my faith. Right? So, like, the phoenix, like, it it dies, and it turns into ashes. And from the ashes comes a new a new phoenix, a new bird. Right? And it's renewed and restored. And that's kinda how I feel like my faith. Like, yeah. I had this faith, but then I, like, I kinda had to, like, die to myself. And, like, from the ashes, like, god brought me out of of those things. And so that means a lot to me. Sure. And I was I was trying to like, as I was coming up with the company name, I was like, how can I, like, how can I incorporate my faith? Because ultimately, like, that's one of my main goals is is to share my faith with people. Right? And so it kind of and it kind of works into, like, revitalizing houses. Right? Like, I'm taking these houses that are kind of, like, trashy, most of them, and turning them into, you know, trying to better the community by by by fixing Speaker 0
up houses and Yeah. Yeah. I had a guy work who worked for me for a long time, Stephen Berkey, and he he had his company name was Phoenix Notes, and I never I never asked him why it was called that. So, I have to follow-up and ask him, but I'm I'm glad I asked you. Speaker 2
Yep. One one last thing I wanted to say I was thinking about is, in terms of mindset, is I think exercise is severely underrated Mhmm. Like Speaker 0
Absolutely. Speaker 2
With mindset. And because and I'll tell you why. So I used to work for, like we talked about before, a a Yeah. Higher end remodeling company. Right? A lot of these people were pretty successful. Yeah. And I noticed that because you're in their house a lot, you you speak to them. Who they are. Right? Right. Most of them had some sort of exercise routine. Like, they would go to the gym or whatever. And it and it kinda, like I was like, I like, why is that? Okay. The act of exercise doesn't make you successful. No. But it it, like, primes your mind Speaker 0
and For sure. Speaker 2
Gives you a routine of doing something. And I have been I've been you know, I'm an athlete. I've been on and off, like, exercising. Right? But I over the last, like, three or four or five months, I've been, like, really exercising a lot more. Mhmm. And it just it if especially in the morning, it primes my mind for the day. Right? So I would just say, if you're newer to to entrepreneurship and you're not exercising, or even if you are an entrepreneur and you're not, I would highly recommend and I don't honestly do it even for that long. Sometimes it's, like, thirty minutes. Sometimes it's twenty minutes. Right? But it's, like, some sort of exercise with weights and running that just gets me going. So I just wanted to throw that in there. Speaker 0
And I and I probably need to weave in a more, intentional set of questions about, you know, tips for mental fitness, but couldn't agree more. It's, you know, won't get into it too much, but I I've, been pretty heavily focused on on mental health in the last couple of years, not not just for me, but, you know, for various reasons. But, it's so I mean, exercise consistently is top three in, you know, just contributing factors to healthy, you know, mental, conditioning. And and, you know, relationships, exercise, diet, I think are are the three that kind of are all they were always there, but I couldn't agree more. So even if you don't wanna do it, it doesn't mean you should, you know, I mean, sleep is critical too. But, yeah, I I I've been, doing a cold plunge in the morning actually now, and it's it's Speaker 2
all about the cold plunge. Speaker 0
It's so good. Every morning. And it there's some mornings it's easier than other mornings. And some mornings, it's just a matter of it it's much more of a mental thing than anything else. I'm like, no. I'm I'm in charge. I am in charge, and I'm getting in this in this cold plunge right now. Speaker 2
Yeah. Speaker 0
And there and it's been pretty and it's only been a few weeks since I got it, but, man, it's been great. And, Speaker 2
I've been doing it consistently for about a year, and That's awesome. It's like everybody laughs at me. And I'm I've been taking more cold cold showers now than than baths because it's it's, it's easier for me to because with the with the backpack, like, fill up the tub and on, it just takes a longer period of time. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
But the cold showers, it is so revitalizing. Like, you get out. It's it's awful getting in. Right? But when you get out, you feel so good. And I think Tony Robbins I think I heard something that Tony Robbins said where he's like, he's training his mind to to do something right away in the in the morning that he doesn't wanna do. Right. And he's training his mind to just do it without thinking. Like, you don't sit there and, like, contemplate, should I get in the cold shower or the tub? I don't know. You don't I don't even think about it. I get in, I turn it on, and it's like, woo. Speaker 0
Yeah. He's been doing it for years. And Speaker 2
Yeah. So I would recommend that as well. It sounds goofy, but it's it's it works. Speaker 0
Right. Absolutely. And just so you know, I am going to play pickleball here in a little over an hour, so I'm getting my exercise in. Speaker 2
I'm all I'm allowed some pickleball, man. That's an old man's sport, I thought. Speaker 0
Exactly. Exactly. It's way more fun than I expected it would be. But Mark Passarelli, this has been awesome, my friend. This has been great. Thanks Speaker 2
for Yeah. Speaker 0
Thanks for joining us and, sharing, you know, opening up about the loss in Deep Creek. And but but really so much more than that, more about your your faith and, overcoming, I guess, your own personal negative thoughts and beliefs and and and things and and just reconnecting with your your faith and how that's contributed to your success. I think, there's so many other things I could point out, but those are some some key highlights that I got from this episode, and I know our our listeners got a lot as well. So thanks a lot for joining us. Appreciate it. Speaker 2
Yeah. Thanks for having me. Speaker 0
And to the listener out there, please check out our website adversity to abundance dot com. That's the number two. And we love five star reviews, and we love it when you share episodes with your friends and family. Thanks for listening, everyone. Take care. Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire. 
