The Verdict Is In: Attorney Sharon Tasman Beats Cancer and Fulfills Her Entrepreneurial Aspirations
Episode Details
Transcript
Resilient lawyer-turned-entrepreneur Sharon Tasman fights for accessibility in law, embracing change and overcoming obstacles to make legal expertise less intimidating and more attainable for all.
Meet Sharon Tasman—the epitome of resilience. She's revered in her field as an attorney and mentor with over 30 years of experience. Additionally, Sharon has ventured into entrepreneurship, founding HT Biz Law, a firm that champions mission-driven companies. Her journey is as inspiring as it is instructive; a cancer diagnosis right out of high school derailed her initial plans of studying engineering, but it didn't drown her spirits. Instead, it became the pivotal moment that propelled her into metamorphosis. Driven by a desire to help budding entrepreneurs and small businesses, Sharon navigates the legal landscape with a combination of passion and unparalleled expertise.
“No matter how far you've gone down the wrong path, turn back. It's never too late to change gears and find the right direction.”
In this episode, you will be able to:
· Marvel at how adaptability can turn seemingly insurmountable challenges into stepping stones for success.
· Acknowledge the unspoken importance of legal contracts in the smooth running of any business.
· Contemplate the subtle dance between financial success and personal fulfillment.
· Gain valuable insights into the risks and rewards that come with the territory of being self-employed.
· Recognize the pivotal role uncertainty and discomfort play in shaping your growth trajectory.
· Visit the website of HTBizlaw, Sharon Tasman's law firm, to learn more about their services and how they can help your business.
· Contact Sharon Tasman directly to discuss your legal needs and see how she can assist you in building a solid legal foundation for your business
· If you are a solo or small business owner, recognize the need for legal support and consider working with Sharon Tasman to ensure that you are protected and compliant with the law.
The Balance Between Financial Prosperity and Personal Contentment
Sharon’s journey sheds light on the delicate balance between financial prosperity and personal contentment. While acknowledging the importance of financial stability in decision making, Sharon underscores the equal significance of finding fulfillment and pursuing passions. This balance, Sharon suggests, helps us to build not only financially secure, but also personally satisfying lives.
Books and Resources
Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah
Age is an Asset: Surviving and Thriving as a 40 Plus Entrepreneur (to be released on 2024)
Connect with Sharon Tasman:
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharontasman/
COMPANY: https://www.htbizlaw.com/
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/htbizlaw
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/htbizlaw/
Connect with us
WEBSITE: https://www.adversity2abundance.com
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChYrpCUlqFYLy4HngRrmU9Q
Leave us a rating or review: https://www.adversity2abundance.com/reviews/new/ or here
Got comments, feedback or suggestions? We’d love to hear it! https://www.adversity2abundance.com/contact/
Connect with Jamie
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-bateman-5359a811/
TWITTER: https://twitter.com/batemanjames
Speaker 0
Sharon Tasman graces us with her presence on this episode. Sharon is a wealth of knowledge in, many things, ballroom dancing, law, big law, small business, a lot in the medical, and health, world for sure. So, she's the founder of HT Biz. So she's a small business owner She's been an attorney for thirty years, and she was a pleasure to chat with. In the last ten years, she's owned her own company. And she really focuses on small business and providing services, legal services for technology health and life sciences. Businesses. And, man, her one of her mottos is it's never too old. It's not too late. She talks about a Turkish proverb about, you know, if you're going down the wrong path, it's always the right time to turn around. And she's done several pivots in her life. She is a cancer survivor. She her high school, graduation gift was a stage four, ovarian cancer diagnosis. She was, you know, those are her her words as far as her her way of viewing it, but and then both of her parents died of cancer as well. So she's, dealt with. In fact, she was actually more recently diagnosed with a less serious version of cancer. So she's absolutely faced a lot of health challenges in her life. And and, Man, she's a she's a she's a ball of energy. She's got a ton of information. She, in her own words, geeks out on a lot of different topics. She has a lot of programming, experience as well. So the hard part here was she's just an expert in too many fields, and it's really you know, not that we weren't focused, but, man, she's just, could go down any rabbit hole and provide value. And I know that's exactly what you're gonna get from listening to this episode. Speaker 1
Welcome to the from adversity to abundance podcast. Are you an entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur, then this show is for you. Each week, we bring you impactful stories of real people who have overcome painful human adversity to create a life of abundance. A life of abundance. You not alone in your struggle. Join us and you will experience the power of true stories and gain practical knowledge from founders who have turned poverty into prosperity and weakness into wealth. This podcast will encourage you through your health, relationship, and financial challenges so you can become the hero in your quest for freedom. Take ownership of the life you were destined to live. Turn your adversity into abundance. Speaker 0
Alright. Here's the deal. You work hard for your money. Isn't it about time you put your money to work for you? If you are an accredited investor, check out labrador lending dot com. Our integrity income fund provides monthly cash flow from an investment backed by hard physical real estate. Our income fund, which is uncorrelated to publicly traded stocks and bonds, invests in first lien mortgage notes, diversified by geography, property value, and borrower type. So you're not investing in one project. You're investing in a diversified portfolio of first lien mortgage notes. Our integrity income fund aims to pay its investor monthly distributions at a preferred rate of return of eight percent annually. Possibly, the best part, though, The fund showcases a short twelve month commitment, so you can invest your capital today and have access to that capital in one year. Check it out today. Labrador lending dot com. Welcome everybody to another episode of the From adversity to abundance podcast I'm your host, Jamie bateman, and I'm thrilled today to have with us Sharon Tasman. Sharon is an attorney and a mentor, and she is the found and partner of HD Biz Law. She's been an attorney for over thirty years, even though she's only twenty nine years old, Sharon, how are you doing today? Speaker 2
I'm doing great. It's the wonder of time travel we age backwards. Speaker 0
Absolutely. We're gonna get into some technology and maybe you've invented that that technology or something. But, yeah, talk to us a little more. Obviously, you know more than I do about you're up to today? Talk to the listener out there who's unfamiliar with you. Who are you and what are you up to today? Speaker 2
So as you said, my name is Sharon Hazman, and I've been a technology business and life sciences lawyer for more than thirty years, and it does shock me every time I say that. And for the last ten years, I've actually had a small firm that I founded after working in big law and big corporate for, you know, the first fifteen twenty years of my law career. And what I like about having the small firm, which is HD Biz Law, is we are able to focus on for our larger, larger clients mission driven companies that feel good to work for, but also the flexibility to work with solo and small businesses because I truly believe that law shouldn't only be for big companies. It's more important the smaller you are because you can't afford to take as much risk. So my personal mission is to make law not scary and to help solo and small businesses realize that contracts are their best friend. Speaker 0
Love that. It's really good. Yeah. So you're you're able to provide your your you have more control over who you work with than you did ten years ago. Sounds like Speaker 2
And the rates and the rates that's it. Speaker 0
Sure. Absolutely. No. And and our listener out there is is is primarily an entrepreneur or or budding entrepreneur who, you know, I work with attorneys all the time, and so I definitely see the the need for sure. And and that's awesome that you're kinda bridging that gap between, between law and small business. Speaker 2
And and that's that's really the goal is it's it's my passion project is to help, especially women and members of the bipoc community to level up because it, you know, we do have to work a little harder. There's there are some barriers to overcome, but also for all entrepreneurs, no matter what type of business you're in, you just have to protect yourself. And there are some things that kind of catch people backwards, even big companies and small companies really need to get it Speaker 1
right the first time if they can. Speaker 0
Absolutely. I love it. So we're gonna drill down into what you do, you know, a little bit later, we're gonna drill down in some more specifics. Let's jump back into your backstory. Obviously, the podcast is called from adversity to abundance. So you and the listener know that we're gonna talk about some adversity that you faced. And, In your case, we've we're gonna focus on on health and and, some major health challenges that you've overcome. So I'll let you take it away. Where do you wanna start? Speaker 2
So I I will start it graduation in high school. So I originally had planned to be an engineer. My mom started programming in the nineteen she was like one of those hidden figures women. My brother started programming. They taught me when I was twelve, and I was totally on the of, I'm going to become a programmer, and that's what I'm going to do with my life, except my graduation present from high school was stage four cancer. And when involved a lot of chemo and a lot of treatment. And that kind of chemo when you are young and your brain is still developing actually can affect your brain. So my ability to do higher math processing was affected. Logic wasn't affected. Overall, IQ wasn't affected. My ability to learn foreign languages wasn't, but higher math processing was. So staying on the scientific computer programming at a top engineering school path was not exactly the right path. It it took me the first two years and I'm getting admittedly a seventeen on an exam, which which no. Thirty five was passing or thirty seven was passing, but you know, I just realized it just wasn't where I was going to go. Speaker 0
So I Mhmm. Speaker 2
I first switched into business programming because you have to pivot when life throws things at you. And that's Mhmm. Speaker 1
You know, Speaker 2
I think that's been the biggest lesson of my life overall, which is One, you're never too old and it's not too late, which is more now. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
But another I think it's actually a Turkish proverb, which is no matter how far you've gone down the wrong path, turn back. You know, it's never too late to turn back and to change gears. And I think That is, I think, a key trait for me that I was able to embody early on. In fact, and a cousin gave me that quote on a piece of paper when I was going through this. So it's really stuck with me, which is you have to be able to be nimble and move. Yeah. Now the health thing kind of always was there because when you have that much chemo, you have side effects kind of for the rest of your life. Sure. But So Speaker 0
yes. So paint that picture as far as, just what what that looked like. I mean, and again, Speaker 2
I'm I'm an I'm an open book. So, I started coughing. The doctor thought I had bronchitis, then I kept coughing and thought he had asthma. He thought I had asthma. I started throwing up. He thought it was the medication. He stopped the medication. He was still throwing up. So He pressed on my stomach, and this is true, but slightly funny. He said, is there any chance you could be seven months pregnant and not know it? And I kind of hauled off and slapped him slightly indignantly and said, I have a three point nine five GPA. I know if I ever had sex And I'm just like there's just it was not possible unless it was the immaculate conception. I was, you know, the ultimate good girl in high school. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
So it turned out that the tumor was so big. It was compressing my lungs. It had shifted all my organs around. And when I had the surgery, it was ten inches and seven pounds, which is why he thought it was the baby. So that yeah. I I ended up ending up having a year off before I went to school. I had chemos in the hospital for for weeks at a time, and I got out, and I was determined to try to go to engineering school, but Mhmm. It it became apparent that wasn't necessarily the right call, but I was determined. And I still think of it as my alma mater. It just Mhmm. You know, that much chemo and back then the Speaker 1
Sure. Speaker 2
The side effect drugs basically were things that knocked you out and it was like being on, not narcotics, but Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Tranquilizers almost all the time. And it takes time to get out of your system. Speaker 0
Sure. Gotcha. No. That's that's I mean, wow. So, yeah, that's Speaker 2
So I ultimately ended up graduating with a degree I changed schools halfway through. I worked for a while for GE as a programmer. I was good at it. I didn't love it. I mean, I'm very glad I have the skills to be a programmer. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
Because logic wasn't affected just math. And at an engineering school, you had to have these really high level math class. Speaker 0
I Speaker 2
had taken some business classes. I had taken some law classes, and I loved them. So I'm like, okay. Let's go. So I switched. And that was the first, you know, sort of overcoming adversity part beside the physical health and getting through it. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
It was Well, this isn't how I thought my life was gonna go now what? Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. Well, talk to because I also am very different story, and I I didn't have to deal with that. That adversity for sure, but I did transfer schools in in college. And and, so, you know, I I know from that standpoint what it's like to kinda navigate when should I be persistent and put my head down and work through this this hard time, this adversity versus this is the wrong path as you as you mentioned in the the Turkish proverb, and I should back up or chain or pivot. So I know there's no one size fits all answer, but for the listener, how do you navigate that, whether it's in your personal life or professional life? Speaker 2
You know, it's interesting as I faced her probably younger than most people have to face major life decisions, but it it's sort of it was the voice that was in the back of my head for a while that I was trying to fight against because I'm very competitive with myself. And I and I just wanted to be normal. It was my way of coping was I just wanna be normal. I wanna be able to push through and do the things I was going to do. And it took a couple semesters. And in the last semester, the the I was there two and a half years, is what did it for me was I got this seventeen on an exam Mhmm. Which was the best I could do, which was really shocking to me because I had a you know, ninety nine average when I had math in high school, and now I had a seventeen. And I couldn't do better. And I cried a lot for a couple months because it really at that point hit me and it was, what do I do? I went to work for a few months through a co op program, still stayed up at college, and thought about the classes that I had had I had had a business law class, and it just made sense. And I liked it and I went, well, okay. I like this. It makes sense. I had an a in it. I'm good at it. My dad was in business. So I knew that I didn't need to stay at a top engineering school if I was gonna be a business major. So I looked around. My parents were in Maryland, university, Maryland, is a great school. So I transferred to University, Maryland and went into business, but also still kept doing the computer classes. So ended up of about a year and a half. Sorry. A degree and a half, but split between business and computer science. Which in the end was a great combination. Speaker 0
Sure. Yeah. Speaker 2
And then I went to work again, this time for IBM and I went Yeah. No. Still don't love it. Speaker 0
Yep. Speaker 2
Went to work for MCI. Went. No. Still don't love it. And I want, again, sitting down and thinking, and and part of it really is, it's paying attention to that little voice. If you Yeah. Let yourself get quiet. And I realized I'm about to sound woo woo and a little sin, which is which is never who I used to be, but I am now. It is you have to you have to give yourself the space to hear the voice to know when it's time to change. Yeah. You might fight against it, and I did fight against it for a while. But I got reminded of the no matter how far you've gone down the wrong path, turn back. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Yeah. That's really good. That's I mean, that's great advice. And it's very easy for, especially the entrepreneur out there, not to take time or to create that space. You know, I I read a book about, I forget what it's called, but creating that intentional space for thinking, like, actually blocking off on your calendar time to think. And I can't say I've I've executed that well, but that creating that space is critical. To be able to reflect because how else are you gonna look at the big picture to make those high levels kind of strategy decisions that are actually more important than how do I put out this this fire today? Speaker 2
And and, actually, over the last couple weeks, I've actually been coming back to exactly what you said is I'm not giving myself enough space, the realizing that I'm not doing the thing I need to do as well as I should. So I'm I've been saying, okay. Now in the middle of the day, I just need to take fifteen minutes. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
Turn off the electronics. Go you know, leave my office. Maybe if it's a nice day, go for a walk outside. No headphones, no phone, no music, and just listen to myself. And it's it's almost not even active listening. It's if you just let your mind clear The answers are there. Especially as we get older, we've experienced enough. It's just you have to give your brain the space to pull the things together from different parts of your body. And that's really what intuition is. It's your brain making the connections on information that may be stored in disparate places in your brain and pulling it all together. Speaker 0
That's really good. Speaker 2
You know, I did a pivot you know, it was four years ago when I said, I really wanna focus more on helping solo and small businesses. How can I how can I do that more? It's I did the same thing when I said, I need to rebrand the name of my law firm. It was the health and technology law firm. I always did business law, but it wasn't obvious. So when I chain when I added this focus, I knew that I needed to do something. So it was elevate the business part to make it more obvious and to move with the times. Yeah. So that really is the thing, which is once I realized, you know, programming, it just I worked for a couple different places, knew it wasn't for me. I was good, but it didn't make me go yay. I said, okay. I had more some more law classes as part of my undergrad. Went to my labor law professor, and I said, would you, by any chance, write me a reference for law school? And she cracked up. And she said, well, I always knew you'd be a lawyer. You were just fighting it. Speaker 0
I Speaker 2
told my mother, and she said, I've always despised lawyers, but I think you'll make a very good one. Twitcho is like, thank you, I think. Speaker 0
You're right. Speaker 2
But, you know, what I do now, it's not pardon me out there to the types of lawyers who do these things. I do what I feel like is very clean law. I don't need another shower at the end of day. I never go to court. I'm not using kids' wishbones. I'm not chasing ambulances. I'm helping businesses build solid foundations on helping companies with good missions Yeah. Achieve their goals safely. You know, I I represent a research foundation where they research solutions and cures for diseases that have such a small patient population that the big companies won't touch it because it's not as profitable. That's true. A a bunch of guys from the, you know, the FANG, Facebook, Apple, etcetera. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
One of them one of their daughters had one of these diseases. And he got all of his friends to help him start a foundation. And I'm very excited because they're getting ready for clinical trials. So it's like something that feels good at the end of the day. Mhmm. And Speaker 0
I Speaker 2
could never have done it working in big law. Week law, again, knowing when to change. Yeah. Big law was hugely valuable to me. You learn You don't learn how to be a lawyer in law school. You learn how to learn. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
When you go to a a big law firm, the the training is extraordinary. And and I loved it, but I also knew that listening to the voice Yeah. Over time, rates rose. Clients had to get bigger to match the rates, and you become a strategic missile. That wasn't for me. As you can tell, I'm very shy, and I'm not outgoing at all, And I don't like people, sarcasm. I missed when I was a younger attorney and my rate was lower I could work with a client over a longer period of time and really get to know them. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
And which enabled me to head things off at the past. Because I could see things coming. So Speaker 0
Yeah. I get that. Speaker 2
I started my own practice because that gave me the control. Speaker 0
Sure. I love that. Yeah, absolutely. We had a an an attorney on the show recently seth Bradley. Don't worry. He's not a competitor. Different different type of Speaker 2
You know what? There is enough work for everybody. Speaker 0
Absolutely. But he spoke similarly about the his, I guess, big law He's a securities attorney, but Speaker 2
Mhmm. Speaker 0
You know, it it his experience at the big law firm gave him a lot of valuable tools and and learnings, if you will, that he's now, you know, using in his own practice. So but although I in a bit, I wanna talk more about the the transition for sure, you know, professionally because that's I'll make it, you know, blanket judgment, you know, not all attorneys are make great business people. And so I'm curious to get that some insights there from you. Before before we get there though, let's talk. I know you've dealt with some more health specific health related challenges within your family. Let's let's talk about that a bit. Speaker 2
Absolutely. So in my family, we're evidently mentally genetically blessed but medically genetically cursed. I come from a cancer cluster family, although I was the first. My father got cancer and passed and then so did my mother which that part wasn't a surprise. It's very difficult to manage that while working. For my father, I was still a big law. When my mother got sick, I had gone to a client for a couple of years to see if I liked that side of things, And then I had decided to open my practice. You know, one of the pieces of advice I always give people who are thinking of starting their own business, you know, making the leap from an employee where you have someone who takes care of taxes and all those things to employer. When you're a solo, it's all you. And what I tell people is you really should bank about a year's worth of salary and living expenses before you make the leap. Whether that means, you know, starting your job at night while building savings, your new job, while you still have your regular day job, or just putting every spare penny you can into saving so you have that one. You're cushion. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
And fortunately, this was a case of I did, as I said, not just, you know, do as I say, not necessarily as I do. I did the right thing too because I started my law practice and then about a month later, my mom went out of remission Mhmm. And got cancer for the fourth time. Speaker 0
Wow. Speaker 2
In three years. So I ended up pretty much not working at all. For the first year, I started my law firm. Wow. Which is not how anyone should start a business. But but you just don't know. You don't know what the future's gonna hold. And I had I had put away almost an entire year's worth of living expenses. I mean, I worked a little bit. Maybe maybe I worked ten hours a month. Speaker 0
Make for Speaker 2
the first year, which is it's not at all what I recommend. It's I I don't recommend starting and this is true. I and I don't mean to be glib about it. Don't recommend starting a business when somebody then gets sick. Now you never know. I I had a clue. It was possible because my mom had relapsed before. But I knew I needed to make the change when I made the change. Speaker 0
Yeah. I Speaker 2
was able to protect myself. But Right. If there are people listening and you are in the middle now, of a family health crisis or some other crisis. Hold on to your current job. Speaker 0
That's good advice. Speaker 2
If you are really desperate to start this second career started as a side hustle because you need the guaranteed income while you're dealing with health issues, whether it's a parent, a child, and for people in their, you know, thirties and forties, it it's the sandwich generation. You typically have kids and parents who are getting older. And you you have those responsibilities on both sides. Absolutely. Having that guaranteed paycheck is a good thing. Speaker 0
Absolutely. I agree. Speaker 2
You don't wanna add that extra stress of Yeah. Oh, where's the money gonna come from? Speaker 0
Right. And then you're stressed and then you're not as good of a care caretaker for for your loved one, etcetera. It, you know, bleeds into other areas of of your life. Yeah. I can yeah. My my mother-in-law was sick for years. She passed as well. And and my my wife, I mean, was You know, it was, very taxing on my wife and her her sisters and the whole family. Just from a time and energy standpoint, let alone the emotional out of it. And so, yeah, I can't imagine my wife starting a business during that time at all. I didn't intend to. That's great advice. Yeah. Right here. No. Hindsight's twenty twenty. Right? Speaker 2
Yeah. Hindsight's twenty twenty. I I and that happened one other time in my life. Yes. The hindsight being twenty. So after my mom passed, after I dealt with the estate, because I only have one other sibling, and my mom was an only child, and my sibling is not local at all. So I was the only local child. After I recovered from my body failing after all of that stress. I ended up from the stress of dealing with my mom and trying to start a business. I ended up in the hospital twice in one year with sepsis, because my immune system just collapse. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
Because I did not follow the number one rule, which is and I know the rule because I I mentor patients and families on this, which is the caretaker must take care of themself first. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
I I did not. Speaker 0
That's really good. Speaker 2
I did not. I ended up in the hospital twice. So after I recovered from that, recovered from dealing with my mom's estate. I went back to what has been my passion my whole life, which is dancing. And Okay. I used to go swing in ballroom dancing about five nights a week for the decade leading up to my dad first getting sick. And then from when my dad got sick, until my mom passed, I didn't dance at all for almost ten years. Maybe I went once a year. Speaker 0
Okay. Mhmm. Speaker 2
And I missed it, and I hadn't done anything for me because I had been the good girl. I did what society expected. Yeah. And I found a new dance coach and dance partner, and I might have for a year or two been more of a dancer than a lawyer. Just I just might have, which in itself wouldn't have been a problem, but then, of course, the pandemic hit right after him, like, oh, well. So Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Again, fortunately, I had rebuilt some of my savings. Yeah. Because then when you have the pandemic Yeah. You never know what's gonna happen. And and Sure. And especially with everything that's going on for people out there. You know, the, unfortunately, COVID seems to be around for a long time. Right. It it's never gonna leave. It's constantly mutating. And unfortunately, there'll probably be something else after that, which is you just have to be prepared because you never know. You really, really, really, if you're starting a business, you have to have that year of savings available. Yep. No. Speaker 0
It's It's really good advice. I I, I took seven years. I was, blessed in that I was able to work part time. I I worked full time for a while, for a Fort Meade at at for the, DOD, and then I switched I know Speaker 2
that place. I know lots of people there. Speaker 0
Gotcha. And, from twenty fifteen through twenty twenty two, I worked part time. And this is even within the federal government, it's one of the few places you can you can do this at least at least as far as I know Speaker 2
Mhmm. Speaker 0
And still keep your benefits now. So I just simply say that to say I had that op And, I mean, that was my way of building my businesses, on the side. And you know, in a in a more methodical and slow fashion, basically. But it's the same, you know, result of having that cushion and that ramp up. You know, don't just rip the Band Aid off and jump in. I mean, everyone's situation is different. Some people that's what they need to do or they'll never do it. Maybe Or Speaker 2
you don't have a choice because you got fired. Speaker 0
Absolutely. That's and that's exactly what happened with, Seth Bradley. He got fired and he was like, oh, I guess I need to open my own firm here. But long but that's a that's a separate story. So, so talk to us, you know, as far as the last okay. So you started your business ten years ago. Is that right? Speaker 2
Two thousand thirteen Speaker 0
Okay. So and then kinda talk to us over the last, like, five or six years of your business. What does that look like? Speaker 2
So You know, obviously things always slow down for everybody at the beginning of the pandemic. Fortunately, my clients were used to me not being face to face. I have pretty much been remote or dealt with clients that I've never met my entire career. Because I have clients around the globe and I always have. I I've had clients in Singapore and France and Ireland and South Africa all over the United States. So people were used to not meeting me. The one thing that really changed with the pandemic was, it used to be that clients just wanted phone calls. When the pandemic hit, everybody decided they had to have Zoom. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Yeah. They'd never met me before, but now all of a sudden, because people were doing it socially like, oh, Let's zoom. I'm like, okay. Fine. You know, I I never got rid of my suits from Big Law when I was in the office. They're they're in a closet in my office. I, you know, so I look like a lawyer whenever I need to. Right. Right now? Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
But the interesting thing is even as the pandemic has sort of wound down, everyone still wants zoom, which is fine because I like seeing people. It's nice to see who you're dealing with. So that's been one change is all of our practices have become video, not just email and and calls. Yep. But, you know, as I mentioned, I've been really focusing on helping solo and small businesses. I still have my larger clients I mean, now my clients are in the, you know, five to fifty million range as opposed to the two hundred to a billion plus range. Speaker 0
So so get get specific with sort of your ideal client and and what services you provide. We've we've talked around it a little bit, but, you know, what what is it you actually provide, as far as legal services? Speaker 2
So what I provide falls into two discreet buckets for larger businesses in the, you know, five to fifty or even a hundred million. Those are typically where I'm providing technology or life sciences biotech kind of deal advice, research agreements, clinical trials, developing software licenses for them, client agreements, user agreements, software as a service, and counseling around all of those things. For the smaller, the solo, and small businesses, the startups, or the ones that are growing, I provide One, I provide a lot of advice through all my social media channels. I I'm not as good as the the marketing part of me should be, and that I really want to genuinely help. So, you know, it it's you're supposed to teach Yeah. The what and the why, but not the how. My problem is I tend to teach the how. Yeah. Because I I truly wanna help. And it really is a passion for me because I generally believe that having the right contracts as a solo and small business is even more important. So I work with businesses to set up as an LLC because Speaker 0
Mhmm. You Speaker 2
don't wanna be operating under your own name. If you operate just under your own name, there's no separation between you as a person and you as a business. So if your business gets sued, all of your personal assets are at risk. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
And given the barrier to entry of about three hundred dollars, to set up an LLC, it's a no brainer. Speaker 0
Right. Unless you're in California, but Speaker 2
Unless you're in California. In most in most states, it's one to three hundred in those days. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
And I work with a lot of the initial suite of agreements that you need. And I I kind of write myself out of a job But I believe in build it once, use it a hundred times. So having your own client services agreement, and no matter what type of services you're in, Speaker 0
you Speaker 2
wanna call it a consulting agreement, a web agreement. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
So I help businesses set up their client agreement so they can get money in without having risks that come with signing what a client puts in front of them or just something they've grabbed on the internet because Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
A services agreement may look the same on the outside, but there are significant differences between drafted for a client and drafted for a consultant. Speaker 0
Sure. That makes sense. Speaker 2
Have you ever played poker? Speaker 0
A little bit of dabbled. Okay. Speaker 2
Yeah. Whoever in poker, whoever puts the money you know, or the cards on the table first loses usually. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
But when it comes to law and contracts, Whoever puts their form of the contract on the table first wins almost every time. Interesting. When small businesses have their own templates, Yeah. It actually reduces their legal spend, and it reduces their risk because they don't have to wonder what somebody else put in front of them or hire a lawyer to figure it out or worse just sign it. Because there are some things that really can be fatal that you may miss, like copyright law. Pretty much everybody is touched by copyright law, whether they think they are or not. Because it covers reports, drawing, software, code, apps, the content of a podcast algorithms, macros, your tools, all of that. If you assign what you have done for a client, to the client, and you have included any of your background things that you use that make you special over and over. If you assign those to the client, you don't have anything left to use ever again with anybody else. Speaker 0
Yeah. That makes sense. Speaker 2
Yeah. And I've seen that happen, or you'll you wanna be nice. When you're starting up, everyone wants you to get the money in the door. You wanna be, right, you wanna be nice. I'll just sign it and the contract will say, you'll perform the services until the client is reasonably satisfied. It sounds reasonable. Right. Speaker 0
How do you define that? Speaker 2
Exactly. The problem with that is if you sign something that says, You will perform services into the client to satisfied or reasonably satisfied. You have agreed to legally be bound to keep working as long as they until they say I'm good. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. No. I I I work with attorneys a lot with, in we do mortgage note investing and real estate investing and and and also contracts, you know, for for small business and that kind of thing. And and, absolutely. I mean, there there is an art to being a small business owner and deciding when do I pick up the phone to call my attorney? It's not, you know, because you can go the other way in my opinion. And and over analyze and over, you know, focus on risk. And, there are times there are times where I'll just sign a contract. I mean, I'll read it, but I you know, I don't always run everything past my attorney. But I will say, in general, it's not that expensive to get a legal review done upfront or draw up the contract as you're saying, and, you know, we present the the first contract, the first version of what we're even gonna talk about. And that's one time. It's a one time expense upfront. Speaker 2
And it's not that expensive. So Yeah. Because I've been doing this for thirty years, I know how long it takes. I know the questions I need to ask. So for these basic contracts, we offer them on a flat fee basis to create the templates. And Yeah. I think every company needs three things. They need a confidentiality agreement to protect themselves. So when they have these pitch meetings or talk with potential third parties, they aren't literally giving away their advice for free. You need to protect it. You need some form of client agreement. Whatever business you're in, whether it's a sales agreement, a client agreement, but you only need one. That you get to then use over and over and over and over, you just change the description of what you're doing. Speaker 0
Mhmm. And Speaker 2
the third thing is if you're at the point where you're ready to hire contractors yourself, a template that gives you the rights you need. So we create packages that include like those three agreements, or we do a website protection package that is your terms of use, your privacy policy, any disclaimers for your business to protect your presence on the web. Speaker 0
And we Speaker 2
do it all in flat fee, and it includes training And that way businesses know upfront what it is. But I I completely understand people the goal in the beginning is you have to get the money and you have to get the money and you have to the money in. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
If you only did one thing okay. Two things. A client agreement and your confidentiality agreement. I have literally seen people because of the until the client has reasonably satisfied language. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
I've I've seen people literally have to do more in free services because the client kept going, no. Can you change it? Can you do this? Mhmm. Then the original contract value. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Okay. Wow. Like, twice. And sometimes it's just because the client doesn't know what they want. Sometimes it's because the client knows that they can do it. I've seen both the innocent and the malicious. Speaker 0
Right. Right. Sure. Speaker 2
Unfortunately, same effect. Speaker 0
Right? Whether you're whether you're negligent or or intentional about about it. Right? Speaker 2
Very lawyer. Where is negligence intentional? Exactly. But the thing is it's what people don't realize is when you're in that situation, you're losing both the money that you would have made on this contract, had it been drafted right but the opportunity cost of a different project that might have paid you Speaker 0
more. Yep. That's absolutely true. An opportune opportunity cost is something that's easily overlooked. So, yeah, couldn't agree more. So, yeah, that's that's really good. Now and and so you find it sounds like you also not only I assume do well financially with the business, but also get a lot of kind of internal value and and, I guess, purpose, sense of purpose in in working with the clients you serve. Is that right? Speaker 2
It is. I mean, for me, you know, one of my tag lines is ages and asset. Most businesses are started by people over forty. And people, you know, when you're older, you have more at risk, but you have, you know, sometimes they're more barriers to start it up or you feel like you can't and is why I truly believe, beside the fact that no matter how far you've gone down the wrong path, turned back, you're never too old. It's never too late. I started my first business in my forties. I, you know, and every time I've set up a company, it's been an LLC because I want to protect myself. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Sure. Speaker 2
But now it really is how can I help more sometimes than the money? Right? I Yeah. And if I was more money driven well, one, if I was completely money driven, I never would have left big law because At the end of the day, the salaries can be insane. Sure. Absolutely. You have no life, but boy, are you well compensated for having no life? Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
What I love, you know, what I love about having your own business is it gives you flexibility. Speaker 0
Yes. Absolutely. It gives Speaker 2
you flexibility, and these days, have laptop will travel. Speaker 0
Right? I Speaker 2
Absolutely. If you set up the right systems, if you are connected and And this is where having studied computer science is very handy. I'm a geek. I freely admit it. I may not look like one, but I am a techy geek. Love Star Trek. I love Star Wars. I love my laptop. My iPhone, my, you know, my Fitbit. I I'm I I don't even know what laptop number I'm up to at this point. But and every com every business has its own computer for tax purposes, you know, different offices, different computers. But I love having the flexibility. I'm I'm still ballroom dancing competing. I'm not as crazy as I was because you know, there's the time in your life when you're all about work and then you take the break and you maybe play a little bit too much. And now it's balance. Speaker 0
That's good. Yeah. I mean, so talk about that. And I wanna touch on the marketing thing again as well, but talk about the importance of dancing in your case, but just more generically hobbies or interests outside of your professional life, especially when it comes to being an entrepreneur. Speaker 2
And and it can be hard to do, but you absolutely have to do something besides work. There are days when I am at my desk till way too late. My fiance is at his desk until way too late. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
And it's not healthy. It's like literally physically not healthy. For me ballroom dancing is, like, the best possible combination because it is music, and art, and movement, and social because I'm I'm with my dance partner, not my fiance, just my dance partner. And it also fuels a little bit of my competitive drive. And I'm a girl, so who doesn't love address with five thousand rhinestones on So my my competition dresses are are great, but it's it's something I love. And it it's completely the opposite of what I do. What I do is sedentary. And if I don't set my timers, all of a sudden, it could be four hours and all I've moved is my fingers. So I try to set timers to remind myself to get up and just run around the room for five minutes. Speaker 0
Sure. Yeah. That's good. Speaker 2
But it's finding something that takes you out of your job that puts joy in your life. It's gotta be something that's pure unadulterated joy because life is too short. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
It's just too short to Sure. To just work. And, you know, I got I got reminded of it. Last year. I you know, when I was younger and I had cancer, it's always you remember never know how much time you have. You never know how much time you have. And then as, you know, the years pass, you forget just a little bit. Now I always knew in the back of my mind, but one, the pandemic hit, and then all of a sudden, people realized, well, that changed everything. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
But then last year, because several relatives died of pancreatic cancer, I was I did screening to make sure I didn't have it. And they found esophageal cancer instead. Now fortunately, they found it super, super, super, super early. So early that The first time they looked for the pancreatic cancer, it wasn't there, but ten weeks later it was. Wow. So this time it was no chemo, no radiation. Thank goodness. Speaker 0
Wow. Speaker 2
All the surgery was done. They Speaker 0
go down your throat. Speaker 2
But you know, you hear the word cancer again and you go, yeah, I have to enjoy my life just a little bit more because it's that reminder. We We don't know how much time we Speaker 0
Yeah. Tomorrow may never come. Right? Speaker 2
Tomorrow may never come. And you could be completely healthy, and I'm sorry people, listeners. You could be hit by a bus walking across the street. You just don't know. And I guarantee none of us on our deathbed will regret working more. I mean, we'll Sure. Will not regret Yeah. If we could have worked more. No one is gonna think, oh, I wish I worked more. There'll be no. I wish I saw the pyramids in Giza. I went on the Caribbean cruise. I spent more time with my family. I did that thing I always wanted to do. For me, I always wanted to be a dancer, even when I was a kid. I'm Mhmm. But I got to do it. And it was this perfect point in time. You have to find that moment that gives you flow where it takes you out of yourself, whatever it is Mhmm. Art, music, sports, knitting, I mean, anything, that thing. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
That gives you a purpose. Speaker 0
I love that. Love that. What would you say? And I do have some rapid fire questions. Sure. But before we get there, what would you say as far as you know, some people and, again, it's never one size fits all, but advice to the person working at w two, who has a passion outside of their professional career. Right? And they're thinking about starting a side hustle related to that passion. What do you do you have any advice there? I mean, some people say, do, you know, do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life. The other extreme is Hey, leave that leave that passion alone. Don't try to make money from that passion. You're gonna ruin that that hobby and that fun thing. So any anything you can add there Speaker 2
So I absolutely can argue both ways. Speaker 0
Well, you're you you're an attorney. So you should be I'm Speaker 2
an attorney. I I'm I'm also a travel agent on top of all this. Because I've loved to travel. I've been to fifty five countries. I helped friends for years, and they kept going, why don't you become a travel agent? Like, nah. And I kept saying this and I said, okay. And then I'm like, oh, we'll do it as my act too. But then I started doing it sooner. And this was something I love more than anything. But so I I can speak to experience on Speaker 0
this, both of Speaker 2
the dancing and the travel. The travel it it was more fun just helping friends just because than running it as a Now I do I do have it as a business. I have a couple of agents who work for me. Speaker 0
Uh-huh. Speaker 2
And within that, it's been narrowing it down to the type of travel we want to work with and Speaker 0
we're Speaker 2
more like travel advisors, then true, we'll just book whatever. Try to find the right thing for you. Dancing, I have not turned into a profession. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Yeah. Speaker 2
It I mean, when I'm preparing for competitions, it is work, but it is passion. What I would say is if there is your outside interest that you are debating whether or not to turn it into a second career. You have to think really hard and you have to be really honest with yourself. And what you do is you have to look into what it means If I took this as a business, what does it actually involve? What what are the day to day things that happen if it becomes a business? Yeah. Do I need a team of people? Am I giving up sleep that I'd rather have? Will I have to learn all these other systems and take care of care of all these little minutiae, which are not as interesting. The only way The only person who can make the decision of whether or not you make the change is you. You have but it requires Difficult honesty with yourself. Will it bring you enough income? Because thank god. I was not a full time travel agent during the pandemic. I mean, for three years, I would have had no income at all. Speaker 0
Sure. Yeah. Speaker 2
But at least so I've changed my law part to love what I'm doing. I love helping people start businesses, get it right, level up, stay out of trouble, get paid what they're worth, that that fuels me. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
I'm writing a book about it. Speaker 0
Okay. Nice. Speaker 2
Come out in twenty twenty four. It it's gonna be in fact called ages and asset. Surviving and thriving as a forty plus entrepreneur. Speaker 0
Awesome. Love that. Speaker 2
Yeah. Part memoir, part how to. But you have to figure out whether one, that hobby can realistically become a creator. Speaker 0
Well, that's then I think that's a key point is if people just that they don't, not everyone, but oftentimes people are really only focused on themselves and, hey, what's gonna make me happy? What what do I love doing? Which is fine is I have no issue with trying to be happy, but if you take that too far and you're not open to what does the market say this will actually pay me and what what are the needs of others really is what that comes down to, then you're not you're you're you're not doing enough true research or, you know, you're not just, you're just not analyzing this well in a practical manner. It's probably not gonna pay you enough to for you to do well. And then you're gonna end up hating that thing that you used to love. So, yeah, you're you're absolutely right. It's it's mean, and again, everyone's situation is different, of course, but that's that's great advice. What what have you found before we get to our rapid fire questions? What have you found to be the most challenging part of running a business. I said I'd come back to this, and I almost forgot to. But transitioning from big law to running your own business, what's been the most surprising thing from a, maybe from a difficult standpoint. Speaker 2
Two things. Two things instantly come to mind. One is when you work in big law, you have a secretary or marketing department, an accounting department, a finance department, and a cleaning department. And a kitchen. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
And they'll even often have concierge's and you can drop your dry cleaning off, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, you go from coddled and swaddled Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
To you. Do it all yourself. Speaker 0
Sure. Because Speaker 2
at the beginning, you can't hire all of those people. So now I have an assistant virtual assistant. I have an assistant offshore. Handle some of the tech stuff. I have a marketing person. Speaker 0
Got it. Speaker 2
I don't have a secretary. Forks I type fast and so much is done online. You don't really need one. But everything else, you know, you don't on Speaker 1
the one taking my clothes to the cleaners or doing all the cooking. Speaker 2
Right? It it's you go from coddled and swaddled, as an employee, depending on the company, to it's all you. Sure. It's all on you and your family is not going to necessarily understand the difference and the impact and how much more time it's actually gonna take you to spend doing all these other things that you didn't have to worry about before. That's one. Speaker 0
Very true. Very true. Speaker 2
And the second thing is you're going from a steady, stable paycheck to this. Speaker 0
Up and down up and down. Speaker 2
And chasing clients do pay you, which you never had to do. Because when, like, when you work for somebody else, you get pay I mean, unless the company that you work for is in financial straits, You as an employee get paid on time, like clockwork, whether or not the company's clients pay. Whether or not their products sell this much or that much or or a vendor is late or whatever. You get paid. On time, you know, exactly what it is. Yep. So When you're self employed, no clue. Speaker 0
There's a lot less stability and consistency with the financial picture. And there's a lot more responsibility on you as a, you know, than than there used to be. But sounds like in your case, and I can say, in my case, for sure, that it's it's still worth it. Speaker 2
Oh, the the flexibility that you get is worth it. You just have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Speaker 0
I love that. That that But it's I was doing jujutsu until the pandemic, actually. And that that was my biggest takeaway from from that experience. It's just that that's really the biggest lesson there is just you've gotta be the best jujitsu players, as they call them, are very comfortable being uncomfortable, and they're just they're fine with it. You know, so that's a very good life lesson. Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, with with barroom dancing, it Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
No. There's always one toe that's broken. Or one toenail that's coming off or coming back. I mean, you just have to get used to that. Yeah. Speaker 0
Sure. Alright. Let's get some rapid fire questions and then we'll get out of here. Speaker 2
Okay. Speaker 0
What is one thing that people misunderstand about you? It's a tough one. I'm not gonna lie. Speaker 2
No. Something people misunderstand about me. That sometimes my very extrovertedness might come off a little bit as flighty. I'm not. I'm the opposite of flighty. I'm a hundred percent a good man in a storm. But I'm very extroverted, and I like talking to people so it can come across, I think, a little wrong sometimes. Speaker 0
Got it. What is one of your biggest failures or regrets? Just something you'd like to do over if you could. Speaker 2
Knock cancer? You didn't say it had to be in my control. Speaker 0
Fair. Fair. That's fair. If you could go back and give your eighteen year old self some advice, what would that be? Speaker 2
Oh my god. I was in the middle of chemotherapy. It gets better. Speaker 0
It gets better. It gets better. Speaker 2
It gets better. Speaker 0
Time is on your side. It gets better. Got it. Speaker 2
All things work out. It's my favorite my favorite fortune for my fortune cookie ever. All things work out for the best in time. Speaker 0
Love that. If you could have coffee with any historical figure, who would it be? Speaker 2
Albert Einstein's done. Speaker 0
Smart answer. If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, Sharon, what would you do with it? Speaker 2
I would not immediately retire. I would not tell anybody. I would hire a very, very smart accountant. I would put the money in a trust. Kind of like what you do if you win the lottery. I actually know the answer to that one. I would allocate a certain amount of money to take a few friends on vacation every year. Because it's important to spend time with the people you love and care about and I have a core group of friends that are family to me. I come from a very small family. Speaker 0
Right. Right. Speaker 2
They are my family. Speaker 0
Of that. Speaker 2
I would hire a chef. Nice. Come once a week. Cook a bunch of meals for me. Speaker 0
That's great. What is a challenge that you're facing in your business today? Speaker 2
Getting clients to pay on time. Okay. That that one never ends. It just never ends. I'm actually moving a little bit more toward a pay up front model because Speaker 0
Okay. Got it. If you could start a business tomorrow, what would it be? Speaker 2
Money's no object. Speaker 0
Yeah. Absolutely. You got me ten million dollars. Speaker 2
I got my ten million dollars. You know, if it wasn't for the pandemic, I'd said I'd open professional ballroom dance studio because I love dancing that much. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
But I would something to do with dancing. I would open a business something to do with dancing. Speaker 0
What is a book or two that you can recommend? We may have covered Coverly one or two already? Okay. Speaker 2
I truly love the book, The Adventures of reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach It is not religious. It's it's actually not religious. It's a little bit mystical. I'm I'm surprised. I I list that, but I do. Almost anything by Shakespeare. I love Shakespeare. Speaker 0
Nice. Speaker 2
I know. I go from one end to the other. Speaker 0
K. Yeah. You've got a lot of areas of interest in next Ritease for sure. That's those are two books I've not heard on on my show yet. So kudos to you. What is a topic or a question that we have not covered that you'd like to. Speaker 2
What made you branch into podcasts? Speaker 0
Oh, man. So I was asked to be a co host on a show a few years ago, and it's truthfully. So Chris Seventy, peer of mine now, we he asked me to be his cohost. And at the time, honestly, I I was, you know, deer in headlights was thinking no way, no way. Because I'm not quite as extroverted as you are. And I but I said I knew that he was an a leader in the space, and he'd been a mentor to me. And I just knew that it it was the right thing to to do. So I I just said yes. And, since then, man, I've just loved it. I I ended up frankly frankly carrying a lot of the the weight for that that show for a period of time, and that's not a slam on Chris. He he he's done a ton of awesome things. And I'm very thankful for that opportunity. I just really enjoyed it. I I also used to be a an investigator, and and I just love learning and to become a better listener, and, people's stories are just inspiring. So I just this is a way for me to expand my network, learn from others. I mean, my wife is so tired of hearing me talk about, oh, I talked had this podcast interview because it's just I I'm so inspired from it. I am drained by the the the zoom the incessant Zoom calls, if I'm being honest with you. But, it's a ton of work, and I haven't truly monetized it. But I I and I'm answering this is obviously not rapid fire. But I really wanna impact other people by inspiring them through stories like yours, Sharon. And, you know, I like you said, you really wanna add value. Whether whether your people are paying for you, paying for it or not. And that's true for me too. I just wanna give back if you will and just add value, add inspiration, especially to the entrepreneur. And, you know, I know it will come back to me, and I know I've already benefited from being a podcast post. So, great question. I was gonna mention on the marketing thing. So Alex or Mozy is, like, this cutting edge market Yeah. He he kind of, like, broke the internet the other day and his book launch. I don't I I don't I haven't followed it as closely as some people, but it's moving in a direction whether, you know, whether big law likes it or not, or, you know, we're we're moving in a direction from a marketing standpoint where They say you your free stuff needs to be better than the other guys paid stuff. So that's just where we're headed. Content is king. And look, I put out this show for free. I hope people I hope people love it. I hope we continue to grow the the listener base. How is it gonna benefit me truly in the end? I don't really know. I hope it does. Speaker 2
Honest dancer. Speaker 0
Yeah. But, but no. That's I'm glad you asked. I I didn't know I was gonna go that long, but I I love this podcast. I love podcasting. You know, does it tie in perfectly with my own businesses? Not really. But, yeah, have what about you? Any any thoughts on podcasting? Speaker 2
So I've discovered I love being a guest on a podcast. I don't think I want to host a podcast in the foreseeable future in part because I am act I am aware that I cannot do more Yeah. Then I'm already doing between law, dancing, trying to have a life getting married in November. Speaker 0
It's a ton of work. I'm not gonna Speaker 2
Trying to stay healthy. Yeah. It's And I I wouldn't wanna do it and not do it well. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Absolutely. I actually I I love I discovered that I just love actually being a guest on podcasts. It's it's fun. I love meeting different people and talking about different angles and and truly trying to hopefully pass on some wisdom to audiences. Speaker 0
Yeah. I mean, Speaker 2
this one we've talked a little less about law and business and more about life in general. And that's great because if it can make somebody realize that one, you're not too old. It's not too late. Yeah. And whether it's a painful divorce or a major health problem or a family situation, you can overcome it. Speaker 0
Yes. Speaker 2
And it doesn't it may change your direction. Go with the flow and Mhmm. It your life isn't over. It's just going in a different direction, and that's okay. So if somebody is listening and realizes that or draws inspiration to the fact that I'm a stage four thirty year ovarian cancer survivor, great. Speaker 0
Yeah. No. I that's that's fantastic stuff. That's really good. Off We'll share in Tasman. This has been really good. Where can our listeners find you online? Speaker 2
So our website is h t biz b I z law dot com, and pretty much that is my handle everywhere, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, at h t biz, you know, b I z l a w. That's where you can find us. We've got a free road map on the six must haves if you're starting a business. And you can find that at road map dot h d biz law dot com. But everything is accessible from all of our social media and I'm regularly posting, education content, how to's, answering questions, and feel free to reach out. Speaker 0
Fantastic. I know you're you have a pretty decent size following on TikTok. And, although I thought that was for only for, you know, the saves only for, like, sixteen year old, you know. Speaker 2
And my audience is almost all over thirty five. Speaker 0
Yeah. No. That's definitely a an important platform for sure. Well, Sharon, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Speaker 2
Thank you. And, Chris, thank you so much for having Jamie. I don't know why I said, Chris. Oh. Speaker 0
It's okay. Speaker 2
It's just been a long day. Yes. Speaker 0
It's all good. I think Speaker 2
Jamie, I'm so sorry. I yeah. Speaker 0
It's all good. So and to the listener out there, thank you spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Speaker 3
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