Welcome everybody, to another episode of the form adversity, to abundance podcast. I am your host Jamie Bateman, and I am thrilled it today to have with us. Craig Thayer, who is a trauma surgeon. Dr. Craig Thayer. Craig, how are you doing today? I am doing great. Thank you sir. Absolutely. Now I am thrilled to have you on. We were chatting beforehand, and I am really excited to dive into your story here for the listener out there. Tell us kind of where you're coming from and what you're up to today? Well, as you mentioned, I am a trauma surgeon. So add to that, it's really a general surgeon, that focuses trauma but old school and trained from head to toe. So it's if you have been shot in the chest and there's a hole in your heart, I can put a finger in it and get it closed. If you have got a bad gallbladder or hernia, or breast cancer, or I have had a stroke from carotid disease, I can clean that out. So different from People were trained now. So and in transition I was in California or I mean, I was born and raised in her, and then about a year and a half or so ago, move to Georgia, Northwest sore about five miles from Tennessee Border, okay, and just waiting to get licensed in, Georgia to begin that again, but in the interim, I got to be there for my grandmother's death, and she wanted me to write a book, which I did do called say So I came you to chance. It was a blessing. Yeah, I mean there's always an opportunity behind every problem, right? So it sounds like you in the interim while you have been waiting. You took it took advantage of that downtime to create a book that I can't, I can't wait to read myself called saved. It sounds like its looks like it's very inspirational so it can't wait to dive into your story and learn more about what in what went into the book so speak. To us about. Let us jump back. I mean, you know, I know you're an inspirational speaker and a radio show co-host and motivational speaker. So I know there's something under all that. Yeah, something that drives all of that. So let us jump back on, you know, we can start at your birth. I mean, because I know that was a little bit of different from I guess a good story. There is a story there, so let us come back there. So I always knew I was adopted. And my wife Stephanie was always interested in why? My eyes look, the way they do and my personality and those things. And so she wanted to do the research on finding my natural parents, and so in the process of doing that, she found them. So, my natural mom, with in Michigan, she was pregnant Catholic and Faith starting to show a six months, and she would have been shunned by the church. Church. So she moved to California, Monterey and had me then had me for 10 days. I mean, I can't imagine the courage she had to actually hold me, take care of me for those 10 days and then, and me to an orphan back then. There wasn't foster home. So it was an orphan is like place that you would go to, and I was adopted by months later or so, you know. I go on medical mission trips in. I hear other people give testimonies of their faith and such and I would have always begun. No, well, I was adopted by an Irish Catholic. She was born in Ireland, and, and completely. How all of the Catholicism and part of the adoption requirement was that? I would be raised that way. So got through confirmation. And yeah. So what now, just looking back at that piece, that you have shared thus far. I mean, what, What's kind of one or two, takeaways from that any Lessons Learned From? I mean, I know we do remember all of that per se, but looking back. Now, what have you gained from that experience? What I could have never existed in done the things I have gotten to do with my life, but the bigger picture was you know I do all these surgeries on the these mission trips but the biggest purpose I think was standing in front of 60. Kids in an orphanage in Honduras and asked by Ricardo who's a native Hunter and Craig can you stand in front of these kids and Tom about your life and hope? And I got on a knee and started. Luckily I was out in front of about 30, 30 people from our church and started crying. And I am like, yeah, look, I was an orphan like you And look what I became sure yeah, that's it. You can you share our passion but you can do it That's, so I think that's probably the biggest thing I have learned from that. But I have learned other things, I mean, Malcolm Gladwell. One of his seven books talks about a study on a Colorado of nature versus nurture and You know, I am more, like, it's interesting. I always felt like I was like, my parents, who I grew up with, but behavioral wise, I am more like someone off the street than I am. The people who adopted me and I am interesting. Obviously more like my natural family, I have met. So it's interesting to go, okay. I am like these people in their blood. So yeah, it's while I know we're learning more and more, you know, every day, every month, every year, as far as Genetics and all the testing you can do nowadays versus 10 15 years ago, but on the flip side, we're really only scratching the surface. So, yeah, it's pretty, I don't know if that nurture versus nature debates ever going to be, you know, solved per se, but that is fascinating. So, okay, so walk us through kind of your, you know, from the form childhood up until I think the childhood I always keep my dad to credit because he was so logical and, you know, didn't get angry. And my mom was had an Irish temper but I really she was the sounding board. I would argue with her to wits and probably take the opposite side to next week just to argue. And so then I get my hour and a half lecture for my dad, about body language and tone and restart stand up for him. So I could, but it created a path and to add to that, my Mom was an alcoholic and when I was about 11 we're getting back from going somewhere might was my sister and I my dad, my dad opened the door and I could see through the door. And there she was it, which is in the book. But in an awkward position asleep on the ground was not a lot of clothes on and I saw that my sister didn't see it, but then after that, we realized she was an alcoholic. And I went to my first AA meeting. So I got to listen to people. Still, my name is John, and I am an alcoholic and this is my story. So I think that had a huge impact on me being an empath, which, you know, it was demonstrated when I went on water. Polo team trip to Hawaii in high school and another siddhant, I see friend of mine and I were on the bus with of dad that was drunk and crying and had his wallet open to his two kids, and we just had a chat with him and stayed with him. He got off the bus with us and that cop came by and said, don't get Give me any money. He's just going to spend it on, but we still did. And who knows what the Ripple? That was right? So from school and painful things, there's purpose. Sure, absolutely. So, and for more contacts will about how old were you when you went when your mother was on the, on the floor, 1111? Okay. Between 10:00 and 11:00 News, gotcha. So yeah, I imagine that was obviously pretty impactful for you, right? So then you went to AA meetings, later, you're saying that right do with her. I would go to the. Are you go? Yeah. I got a 12, oz gold a mises to see. I thought she brought me along and I could see what people's pains were or what they were doing. And then I think my next big event life was my junior year like the last week before finals. I had a bunch of lasagna that were made and drink some milk and that makes your intestines sometimes Twisted. So all night long, Oh no. I was thrown up on the bathroom floor, the Second Story above, and then they found me on the floor in the morning and then next thing I know I am in the pediatric office, and then he are none in G to buy a really cool nursed on my nose and into my stomach. And that is man up, not admit that this is horrible and then off to the operating room. So they found it. But the Contessa was twisted and twisted took my appendix out and then bye. Coach thought I was just cutting practice and was like, the worst day, or he's and someone might want my best friend. Andy was on the same court as me. So he knew I was in the hospital so it always in the hospital like my coaches. Like yeah. Right. But then he found out it was true. So I think that was the first time I got to be what I call the dark side, right? So I got to experience. What patients got to experience? I always feel like that, just made me a better doctor. Sure. So. And that was from God that was junior year and that was from eating bad lasagna for me, eating a whole bunch like over two pounds of lasagna. Now I got dependent. It just allowed the intestine to twist. I see it. Sounds like your coach needed to be a bit more of an empath as well, right? Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a well, yeah, I am sorry. Only talking about that with my father looking back on some of the coaches I had and my lacrosse career was like. Yeah. Had a lot of screamers. Yeah. No I heard that about you so you're like water polo, but we can't go around the goal. Yeah, yeah, exactly but Leo. Yeah. Yeah mostly yeah. Older eyes. Pretty cool. Yeah, I was a fun time. We big lacrosse family that I come from. But yeah it's think that There aren't any hard coaches anymore but you know, it seems like back, you know, back in the day that yelling and screaming was a little more acceptable and more of the kind of this, the norm per se. But okay, so what happens walk us through, you know, after High School, After High School freshman year in college, in the dark of night, the phone rings, and my roommate, it's just a two-room suite. Our dorm rooms. And I could just tell some was serious because it was one word answers, and then he says it's for you Craig, and so I walk over and it was my dad and I just remember huh you know the words but I tell you this that I tell you this but your mom passed away, and I am just getting home to my dad and see. What he was going through and then the guilt because he would get up the routine, was he would get up, make the coffee, put the coffee on her nightstand, he take a shower, he just noticed that some was worried when he was thinking about it in the shower that she didn't immediately wake up, and she would read a book and read drink or coffee and that he came out and sure enough, she wasn't breathing right called 911, and she was posted CPR and I can't imagine the trauma, but he went through when I know he said it he said you know I should have recognized it earlier like Dad you're not a doc you don't know how to do these things. She someone cared you how to do CPR over the phone. So right. Yeah I mean it's I can you know yeah I could I can see both sides of it. Meaning certainly if you know I wouldn't blame your dad but if I am him I can understand blaming myself kind of thing. So I imagine that was very traumatic for the whole family. So in this was in college for your well, as freshman year yeah. Notnot at the end it was like probably the was just up washers three days after Mother's Day I will be right about this time of year. So Ray 16 And I don't want to be, you know, we don't want to, I don't want to drill down too much and you know, but are we saying that it was alcohol related to death? Or she had been drinking for eight years at that point. Okay so gotcha, he's Irish you had a strong family history of cardiac disease, and she smoked I say she had unhappy and unhealthy habits. Yeah, it wouldn't have prevented this but I would have delayed if she was to smoking. Gotcha, healthier, exercising, and nutritional that stuff here. So yeah, absolutely now, okay. And unfortunately I say this often, but we end up glossing over, you know and kind of moving right along. Yeah. But so what happens in your life after freshman year of college that? So sophomore year I am in an off-campus storm, and I am come back from bacteriology lab. And I come around a corner of my 10-speed bike and some girl pulls out in front of me now, and I am on the wrong side of the road. So it's my fault, but I jacked that my wheel and broke at the same time and not hit her did not hit her but I went straight over the handlebars and hit my left side of my head and lacerated my ear. So I walk over asked her if she's okay. Yes. And then, the next thing I remember is sitting there with an ambulance in front of me, and I am like, whoa, okay, I got knocked out, they take me in this Stitch. Way, are they send me home back to the dorm that night? I can't hear out of the year. There's fluid coming out of it. I call the health center again and it's some grad student. I am like, is this normal? And he goes, I don't know. What do you think it is? So I am like, I don't know. Stop. Oh yeah. So I get an appointment. After my bacteriology midterm, which is it 3:30 to 4:30 go over there? They actually my head. I have got a skull fracture with spinal fluid coming out of my ear, so I get admitted for two weeks of a 10-week course. O quarters move quick. I got organic chemistry bacteriology physics. Biochem lab had like 18 units and I dropped two and again I was told like when my mom died, you will never finish. And I did, I got done with that year and I didn't want to fall out of sync because if you take your 120, A if you want to get through a four years, you got to be in series. So you got to be a first quarter of be second quarter, c3a Porter. Like if I had to move everything out whatever finish in four years. So since so at this point in college what's your game plan for your life? Yeah I knew junior year in high school. Mr. Kalika was Anatomy physiology teacher that the human body was so incredible that I needed to go in a minute. Listen, I already knew I liked to help people. I was tutoring blind students in Geometry, which is a challenge because they Casey and you're teaching him, geometers circles, and spheres, and Sharia. So, I got to think like them and then, and then I knew using my hands and just so surgery, but then I was cocky. When would be a cardiac surgeon or a neurosurgeon, because they seem like they're the top, dogs are then that changed in med school. And I have been more challenging Aging mentally was general surgery and Trauma. So I knew Junior High School, that's what I wanted to do. So I was already passionate and devoted. Gotta get through this biochem, major soaring, the body at a cellular level, as you blow, so out of molecular level, and then Yeah. Then I mean junior year my dad goes to the ER he's got fluid all around him as long, and they drain it. It's bloody and it all comes back to these kind of stage 4 lung cancer. So now he's my mom volunteering to go back and the miracle that you're been. I was in an off campus dorm again, it was a 55 person, 111 students the front and into rooms in the Back. But there was this phone jack, and I don't know how he remembers our audience members. Remember, having to pay for long distance calls, but I could plug into this and I would call my dad every night and it never appeared on her bill. I mean, I went to the officer goes to come in somewhere. I will still you guys getting these charges to San Jose area, and they're like, no, we're not. So I was like, that's like was able to call my dad every night for an hour or two three. Wow. Crazy. That is crazy. So and so, you're okay. And so your dad was diagnosed with stage 4, lung cancer, lung, cancer. And then, so during the summer time, when I got home to New Year, he was undergoing chemo and radiation and then one morning he was screaming from action tonight. Before I watch some kind of fall on the couch, he stumbled. That's where it is. And drink. There's nothing that would do that. And then it by morning, he was paralyzed from the waist down. So just his lung cancer has spread to a spine, was pitching a spinal cord, and he couldn't control his bladder eat himself and my basically pull or Toyota station wagon out, picked him up, carry him to the car and then I am I have carried him into the emergency room. I can't imagine the faces of the nurses. Seeing this 20 year old kid hearing is you know, skinny Father from the chemo, and the radiation headbutt. And then that's where he stayed for the last month of his life when he passed away, huh? Wow. So, okay, so, what's going through your mind at this point? You know, you have now lost both of your parents who adopted you at a young age and you're still in college? Are you how are you? All alone, or what's kind of what's your mindset at this point? Well, I had a girlfriend so that helped but and my sister was unfortunately eyes, she was in high school with me, fresh manure and then got in the wrong crowd sophomore year. Got into drugs, some not really messed up her brain. She's now gotten schizophrenic just good friends and I can affect disorder, may be full for schizophrenia, but and then memories. She's just got this big heart but it's nervous. She can't think as well. So that was a struggle. I want her to come and talk to stay with her, but she's like, no, and she disappeared. She was homeless for a while. I could invite her for a while. So wow. Um, but part of that was, you know, she was there for when I started med school and the teachers professors said, look, you're going to lose your kids for the next four years because It's funeral for quarters a year she around so, and they're going to be devoted to studying and you probably won't get much time with them coming home Etc. And so she took that seriously like, okay, I am okay disappearing out of my brother's life for a period of time. But um yeah. So I just new that I do my parent. You know, when you lose one parent, you lose your P. You realize your prayers for not Immortal and then when you lose the other one you realize, hey, I am not all that Immortal either but the Benefit to me was that I knew what I wanted to do. And I don't, yeah, class of Davis was like 97 students, probably a good 10 percent of those did it. Because of other reasons, it wasn't for them. They're like, parents were driving home or a play or something, and they questioned what they were doing and I never luckily I just never had that issue is there, that's actually that's what I was going to drill down on his is how did that your parents deaths affect your Vision for your, or your life, or your, your why? So it sounds like if anything it just made it stronger and is that fair to say? Yeah, I totally like I just said a little bit ago about, you know, all the guys Was An Old Mill floor freshman year. Always not going to make it back from his mom's death. He's going to stay at home and I showed up and finished. And then sophomore year, I still knew all those guys and others because it was now co-ed, and We all move to the same off campus dorms. And same thing. He's, you know, he's not going to finish the corner. He's got a skull fracture, who knows if he can think so, you know, and then just my dad was and it just I mean, A my dad encouraged me so when he was alive, it was like, no you have a purpose. I know this point it should you to do it. So but then going through med school wasn't necessarily looking back. And look, I am doing this for you. Mom and Dad. Just I knew I would have just thought I wanted to do that. I love helping people. So here's your it hurts me now today that, you know, America the world are so onion knighted and passionate about things to the point that were arguing instead of like listening to each other. Dresser. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so walk us through from, I know it's a bit of a time period here but from med school up into through today. So you do the challenge, the challenge is after med school were well to get into residency. You have to interview. So I had one with Georgetown and I remember sitting on this bench outside like all the students would or prior interns I suppose, and they're asking how you're going to pay for this and this guy lead forward, I didn't know that till I went in there and knew that when you do that, when you lean forward in your chair of the charge going to create, that's what I heard. So I just heard that noise and then I heard him say cash, Cold Hard Cash and then I got in there and I never examine this question before either. It was like how you go to pay for this, and I am like I suppose student loans, you know, do the Obligation thing, every year, it's two years back, I will just get it done. So, I haven't thought about the finances and would just kidding, just to getting into. Davis was a miracle because I was wait-listed in, and, and I thought my friend was calling me to pick him up and it was Davis calling me and it's correct there. And I am like, oh just a second. We're actually answered it. Craig's taxi service. And then I said, I used to feel just checking the same Boise. No change. Yeah, how what's going on? And I got it so nice. But yeah. So and then just you know, the time I heard my parents home in Cupertino and pack that all up and then when I was doing it there was a pipe that broke down stairs or when I was at this interview in San Francisco for Harvard. I drove, I just felt a need of going home and sure enough. This pipe, we had carpet on top of really beautiful hardwood. Floors. Carpet was there. So I wouldn't crack my head as a boy. Roll it up and hit the floor. You can see we're starting to warp. And so I called my best friend. Andy, and he brought up a dad and were like, we got to rip this carpet out, and I am sure the neighbors thought he's crazy. He's robbing a put out of the house and put it on the front. Lawn, what's going on over there? And so yeah. And then the experience of the insurance covered it. And then these guys did a horrible job, and we're going to carpet over it think, we're just going to pull. Pull the wool over these kids eyes but I got back in time to say no, you got to fix this but yeah, it was a learning experience along the way. My chair. Yeah. Yeah. You're not, you're not ready for any of that, right? I mean, no, my mom had passed away and left to 25. A Thousand dollar life. Insurance policy that my dad invested with eight other people and as a fourth mortgage on an 8 unit, apartment complex and I now became an owner of my sister became an owner of an eighth unit. One of eight owners. So we learn about bankruptcy, foreclosure stuff and that we put in the price, and we got it and kept it for a year and then improved it and sold it and made it much money. So nice. I mean there were positive experiences along the way for sure s0 and then just career-wise, and then we will dive into some of the lessons learned and things. But so what did your career look like kind of looking at thus far looking back? Yeah, yeah. So you know, like I said, there were two I think to of it's a, my life that um, stir be away from what I thought I was going to do which is cardiac Enduro zero was just working in a microscope miss that just but it just wasn't. Wasn't as bad as I thought it was. So in cardiac I did an acting internship with a big group in Sacramento, and they're great guys. Say Tommy law stuff, Richard me what? We so veins at the foot of the patient that they're working to use and but I realize it, you know, they're very technical and the thinking part was less so. So and then the big experience was being at the VA in Martinez California, and I am doing my 12 weeks of internal medicine as Third-year medical student. And this guy has lung cancer bleeds in into his lungs, and he's drowning and the medicine guys did know how to take care of that. They just didn't have the procedural stuff to do it, and I said, I need to do a sport that I can do anything to save someone's life, and that was general surgery, so huh? And that's why I went that way. And so, I mean, I was blessed to go to Davis for undergrad, Davis for med school and then Davis for residency. Which was six years and um yeah I mean I was just back then it was there was no 80-hour work week so some sometimes it was 160 hours time you get a 15-minute power nap here there, and he got through stuff. So, but I am so privileged to be doing that kind of stuff. And I remember when I went to my fingers, my 10-year reunions, They thought I was dead. My classmates from high school, but I was dead just because he had been school. Has any no contact very limited contact with everyone? Gotcha I see. So you're grinding you put a lot of hours in and your ear but you're helping people in dire situations. I mean and I presume doing well financially so and then What led you to making the move to Georgia? Was that more of a family decision? No, I think. Well ultimately it was a job offer, but my wife just wanted to get out of California, is giving more a trip to the ultra was changing. Hospital was changing. That was probably the last triangle of negotiating with them to sing. Those are new CEO and the last one was current just, you know, senioritis so to speak. And So was time, and so we were looking at Tennessee, not only Georgia and then I posted something on my Facebook about uniting America through patriotism and playing United States were appalled team in terms of archaea Germany and Russia. And I are uniting that is, you know, we all bleed the same and so on of my friends who had spoken to in 40 years, a summer songs and Middle School. Lived on my court, and they send me it moved is that was a pharmacist, and he swam on the same swim team that I did competitively and then moved to Santa Clara as it was a big name. And then he went to a Jesuit High School and I stayed public and I stated deanza, but we talked about old times, and then he asks what I did, and I am like, he said, he may need me. So when I came out there, I had a job, offer in a week and a half. So yeah, I love the sentiment about uniting. Everyone. I mean, we certainly need to need that more than ever right now in this country, right? Yes, we do. So I do have some rapid fire questions here, and we will I know you have some kind of will focus it around leadership if we can, as far as kind of, you know, leadership for CEOs or just leadership in general, because that's another thing. We definitely need some more of it today. So what's one thing that people misunderstand about you, Craig? That's a good question. River had that question asked, so I am trying to think um, we probably don't know where I have come from, they don't, they don't know the story. They have just seen when I lead, I lead as a team. So you know, you may be a quarterback and you get a lot of notoriety sure but you can't throw the ball without someone catching it. You can't even throw it if no one's blocking for you, you can't. Yeah. You know and so that being said that also gives them skin in the game and so when they do Ooh, something that's not perfect. They personally feel bad about it. Not that I have to correct them in any way. They already know. They didn't do that well for the team. So right, we think being a team leader is key. Yeah, absolutely. And you think they, a lot of people may see your leadership skills but not quite understand where that comes from. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the empathy. The feeling, you know, put myself in her shoes. Sure. Like most of absolutely looking back. What's one of your biggest failures? Maybe not the specific adversity because we have talked a lot about a lot of adversity that different things have happened to you. But what's one thing that you may view as a regret or failure just something you'd like to have a do-over with well, I don't know if I guess they want to do over with, but I would say, you know, getting I had, I got married during residency had three children, two girls and then a boy, great lady. But then I got real sick would cough the hole in my heart and a bunch of passwords on my lung and that kind of freaked her out. And so she really wasn't the same after that, and not that. That's my excuse. But then, my dad's dying or my dad, I am selling my house. My dad already died. She never met my parents, but just, I think going through that divorce, if I could rewind, that it's the worst financial decision you could ever make in your Life because it divides you an equally less than half. So because you have got two other expenses to pay. But yeah, just and when you're in the courts for eight years, you're always in an adversarial relationship, so you can never heal your wounds. So I think, if all that is you got over there, be tried to avoid that as much as possible or and unfortunately a lot of our listeners can likely relate to you on some level and that going That experience. But now you say you got real sick. What was that? What was that? Exactly. That was like three colds in a row. Okay, the fourth one taken two weeks off. We I was my brother-in-law's wedding was in Sacramento at a big church and I got to get up and talk about 1 Corinthians and what is love and the priest even rib me like because I have a deeper voice Like it sounded, you know, when the Acoustics in the church and it's like, you're not going to replace me. I think is what he said. But, um, but then I got real sick down. We went down to Cabo for vacation in Mexico and I got sicker and sicker. And my shoulder started to hurt him. Like we need to go so blue back. What to? What to my hostel, but impossible and chest x-ray. I know that's not good. Complete whiteout probably exactly what my dad would have seen if you were to his And then, but I am free, I have fever. So it's like doing some infection of some kind, and then they list in my heart and I have got this murmur than I have never had. So it's like okay do you want to put a chest tube in you here, or we need to ship you down to Sacramento where the cart guys are because there's a hole in your heart somewhere doing something, it needs to get, worked up. So I said, no, no. Put it. Someone will pull it. I guarantee a physicians when their patients best stuff happens and yeah, sure enough. They did, so I go down to sack. They drain my chest. That was a fun because he's numb up one spot. No, not good. Nope, that's what in these are the guys that I worked with when I was in, acting in turn, in med school with them. So you chose not to take the fast and immediate action, and you wanted to go more to The Experts, wait a little bit, and go to the expert because I get the tube in there. They will drain all this pasta was five liters of pus out of my chest. Wow, so much better. And then they did an angiogram that showed that I would cough the whole from my aorta to my right atrium. So there was shunting blood from the auction, a side, back to the venous side, which is not. So I am wasting my cardiac output was 15 liters, which is three times normal and luckily I was still an athlete been playing water polo. So, so I hadn't done. What is that? What is this? What does this mean? For The layperson Who. Yeah. So basically, they did open-heart surgery, and close the hole, and then they did, they rolled me on my side, they open my chest, put got all the pus out of her and any, any residual stuff and then put a tube in there. I was awake for that part, that's what I am saying. It's like God's always there's always complications and then in recovery the nurses are look. And there's a warming blanket that goes on the bed so you don't lose temp because you lose your body's ability to control speed when you're under anesthesia. And so that was like in a shape of a waffle and circulates warm water through, it will burn me on my hip, so they're looking at this burn on my hip. And then I woke up and because I was on one side all the junk and that side gravity, pull it in the good long. So they had to rock me. Put a camera down there and suck all the garbage out of the good long. Yeah. So but then I was there for about 44 days post-op and then got out but it was about two and a half months before I was back in the operating room. To okay wow. And this was kind of leading up to the divorce is what you were saying before that event I have been told that event kind of just put her mind to do it. What I have learned is that women really Love feeling secure, it is very important, stability, Radiance? Sure. That scared. Scare the hell out of her. So sure. That there wasn't this. Like I am Invincible right anymore cuz I just went down or and I mean that just around the edge and then got on. Yeah. And then my not my kind of grieving when I am in the house when it is. So in the year 2000, um, Just put me Canada. No, a depressed state and it's hard to get rid of things. He pack up our house that's checkers. Do you throw away? Feel like you're throwing a part of your family away. So um, yeah. So it was hard and I just sighs I am too. Yeah that's how I like that was a rough patch for sure. I am glad we drilled into that though. As far as to because he do it was worse than just a few colds. Yeah. Yeah I know it was a lot of worse strep bacteria. That's a that's some serious justjust health and personal adversity right there and obviously to win and blood into your no pun intended but into your relationship, you know, with your spouse and you know that all these things are related. But So, if you could have coffee with any historical figure, who would you choose? Bodes. Well for me, be Jesus. But um yeah if I could have a moment of conversation. Yeah, baby, Jesus, yeah, good answer. Plenty of good questions we can come up with right? Yeah. Yeah, I know these are good, these are good. So if you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it? I am here to serve and not be served. So, My idea of abundance is making money to give away. I am happy where I am moving to Georgia, has reduced my overhead, 40 percent to 40 percent of what it was. Wow, the house we got is under half of what we paid for in California. So we are set up beautifully and I mean to set up operating rooms around the world. I am going to Uganda in October. To end of September and October to talk with folks to try and set up operating rooms with train, their people, whatever I can do just be a physician and practice medicine that are they need that? So, so the abundance would be to serve the homeless is a huge thing, right now? That's, that's a bigger problem than I am able to take care of but there's people out there working on that, so yeah. Yeah. And what have you learned through either your personal adversity, or your career, any parts of your career? But from a leadership perspective, we have already touched a little bit on this. But what, you know what? What are one or two lessons? You have learned from a leadership standpoint that you could share with the maybe the CEO or the entrepreneur out there? I think in general, it's just that there's always hoped, you know, there's going to be trials, you know, I mean learn to embrace those trials, you know if it's a step Member, you have got a fire, a colleague that you have to let go, you know, be an empath, put yourself in their shoes and, and then and work with, you know, I think we have got A couple of generations that like Millennials like a lot of boundaries and parameters to work, and they work. They are not as motivated, but that's just them and then Gen-X just wants to belong and virginity. I mean, just wants to belong in and function and do stuff so no letting them feel that way is key. Sure. So yeah, that there's a lot of good stuff there for sure. How have you changed your leadership style over the years? Has that changed at all? Yeah, I think, I think like what I said, I realize its trials, and it's like embrace them to destroy, but just realize that this is a learning experience for me. And it's a learning experience for the team, just like our kids, they learn more by, what we do than what we say. I think I heard you say in a podcast, you know, my kids don't listen to me. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's cool. Yeah. They are too busy watching what you do right to, to listen to what you say? So watch what you do and people learn, you know, and then it will get fixed and their Seasons of things to. So that's a really good point. Yeah, life definitely has Seasons. So your approach needs to adjust and how you your perspective needs to adjust based on the season that you may be in. So yeah. Yeah, that's important to remember for sure. So other than waiting, on your medical license to transfer over, it sounds like, what's, what is one challenge that you're facing in your, in your career or business, or, you know, that type roll right now? Yeah, that's a great question because I mean, like I said, I was blessed to know it's 16. Wife will call my first calling. And I was tipped to use my hands. My mind to be a trauma, surgeon general surgeon. And now I am feeling a pole now, to unite people. And again, in the book that I wrote, there's a picture or when I am in Haiti in front of the United Nations helicopter, and my head's block me out some key letters but asses on the far, right? You and the ends been. It's such an old helicopter gone and then it says, unite and then tion on which makes it an action, right? So unite you need to unite people or operations, countries, whatever. Um, so I am feeling you know, and again the book was more, my grandmother. You need to do this to this barn and give home make people understand. Look, I am on artificial pedestal as a trauma surgeon that I bleed too. So and that I can help. So, anyway, I can get on a stage or in a boardroom or ever gasps each for or to inspire to motivate and give hope that's my latest calling. Yeah, so that is so one of my questions, I don't always ask it but one of them is what occupation other than your own. Would you like to try? So you kind of hinted at that a little bit, is there anything that comes to mind when I asked that? You know, my second oldest son is He's an entrepreneur himself. He does some cutting boards. So, okay, he's got a planar. I love working with my hands. So it's, it's going to be serving people in some way, you know, your volunteering or making things for people like cutting boards or, you know, something that I feel like I am serving other people. Yeah, I think that, just, I just finished a book about a mental health, which is A whole huge Topic in and of itself. But I mean, the end of the day, this stuff physical health, and mental health, is all related. And one of the key pieces is purpose. And another key pieces relationships, right? And so you're you have clearly shown that. That's what you're driven by serving others and that service ads purpose to your life as well. So it's not all about stockpiling as much cash. Sure, you know, as many accolades as possible. So that's, that's fantastic. I love it. Well, thank you talk about the your book, more tell us more, it's called saved. You said, your grandmother inspired you to write it. Tell us about soon. So, it's just, it's the Story of My Life from, you know, before I was even here, my natural mother. And finding that Only two, almost present day. So it talks about it really begins in a dedication with her. And just the Miracles that I have seen in my life and some of them are photos, that can't be explained and those are in the book or the a picture of me in a closet in Honduras or the only light source has a window across from me to my left and there's a light coming off of or drawer. Metal filing cabinet. That can't be explained, I am in the shade, but my face is lit. And my, my friend Jason Guzman sitting across from you. Taking the photo hand, me the phone and said, look at this, you know, was black and white. No flash and I go. Do you see what's on this? And I hand the phone back to him, and he goes, oh my gosh, look at this. And so and there's another one is him trip to Fergie. Different differ camera. Of light coming off of some skin and the patient's drape with a paper drape and there's this glow over the, you know, the more the incision is going to be. So um, just those Miracles, there are all this book so and then I it's a miracle that I was never put in jail. So there's a whole chapter on pranks ice is too. I don't pranks that I pulled in my life so it has a little levity to Sure adversity. So And we all we definitely need levity in life, right? Um, so and I presume we can find it on Amazon. Yeah, just gonna click on Amazon, put my name in there. Craig there at is Tom. Each aye are, I was wondering my dad. My dad would say that and then when I started being older and bigger phone calls, no fair, no, no, it's not enough, it's the T, right? So if you just Google my name and put saved in there to pull up the book, Then you can order it. I just finished the audible yesterday. Well, there may be some clips that I have to redo so that's being edited right now. So which is a challenge because one of the parts of brief at the very beginning, I also have done't realize this until our youngest son was diagnosed with dyslexia. H knew I had ADHD so but I never thought of I just new I read slow. So every single exam might count the number of questions in the time allotted under sweat that more than the exam. And it was distracting. And but obviously got through those because we're gonna Ram his hairy are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you do the audio yourself. I did II Facebooked, and I said, should I do one? And then if I do, should it be me and it was on a percent? No, that's not sure. What am I high school buddy? Said, no, you should get. You sure you're ready to do it, and he does have a great voice but you shouldn't you should get that The priest at the ceremony that get him to do it, you know, Cinema coffee. Yeah, you didn't steal his job but you're not alone. Oh yeah, that's funny. So the audio version is going to be out soon. Yeah, it will be out. It will be on, you know, it will be inaudible dress on Amazon so it sounds great. So saved with an exclamation mark at the end. Craig Thayer. What have we not covered that? That you wish we had? I don't know. I always like to do you know how I can help you. So if there's down the road, I mean III volunteer. I have had 14 years of stupid education After High School. And so it's like when I, when I get to interact with people like you, you know, I think you have my phone number from contact stuff, but there's ever a question you got family friends. Whatever's, going on. Feel free to call me so I appreciate it. But yeah, so fantastic. Craig Thayer. Thank you so much for joining us. It's been really good and looking forward to reading your book. And so, if the listener out there would like to get a hold of you, what's the best way? Okay, so I have a website which is just Craig Thayer dotnet or you can Facebook me. I am Craig tank there originally, it was just tank there because I was trying to hide. And then my wife put my first name in there and then a lot of people like hated that my other nickname from Play water, polo was tank, so all of the story. But yeah. So Craig tank there on Facebook and then you can message me anytime. Sounds great. So not Frank the Tank. Craig, the tank, fantastic. Well Craig, thank you so much. I really appreciate you spending your time with us today. Thank you JB. It's an order appreciate that. And to The Listener out there, we appreciate you spending your most valuable resource with us. And that is your time and don't forget to check out our new podcast website, adversity to abundance.com. It's the number to adversity to abundance.com. Thanks everyone, Take Care. Thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us your time. If you like the show, please share it with your friends and fellow podcast listeners, one entrepreneur to time. 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