Overcoming Adversity & Creating Abundance Through Note Investing with Jamie Bateman
Episode Details
Transcript
This episode of The Next-Level Income Show features Jamie Bateman, an experienced real estate investor and business owner who has been actively buying and selling mortgage notes since early 2018. During this time, he has acquired over 75 mortgage notes with principal balances in excess of $4M with collateral across 20 states and growing. Jamie owns several small businesses and a multi-state rental portfolio worth over $3.5M.
More importantly, he has hands-on experience overseeing construction projects and managing properties and has experience in both the title and mortgage industry industries. Having worked for years as a real estate settlement officer and mortgage funding manager.
Jamie discusses the void he felt in his life after leaving lacrosse and how that pushed him to seek out a bigger purpose through his family, his business team, and the military, despite facing adversity.
He shares the different ways you can get started in the note space as well as some of the unique risks and benefits associated with note investing.
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Connect with Jamie
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-bateman-5359a811/
TWITTER: https://twitter.com/batemanjames
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/batemanjames11/
WEBSITE: https://labradorlending.com/
Follow Labrador Lending
WEBSITE: https://labradorlending.com/
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/71512077/
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/labradorlending
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/labradorlendingllc/
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChYrpCUlqFYLy4HngRrmU9Q
TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@labradorlendingllc?lang=en
Investment Opportunity
Are you an accredited investor interested in monthly cash flow from an investment backed by physical real estate?
Our income fund--which is uncorrelated to publicly traded stocks and bonds--invests in first-lien mortgage notes diversified by geography, property value and borrower type. The fund aims to pay its investors monthly distributions at a preferred rate of return of 8% annually. And possibly the best part? The fund showcases a short, 12-month commitment.
Check it out today! https://investors.appfolioim.com/labradorlending/investor/public_opportunities/5
Speaker 2
00:00
You don't go online, you can go online, there are exchanges.
Speaker 1
00:03
Like paper stack and some other exchanges that one was for Brett.
Speaker 2
00:07
Berkey, but now you can go.
Speaker 1
00:09
Online and buy notes on these exchanges. And I buy and sell on paper.
Speaker 2
00:13
Stack and some others, but it's a very.
Speaker 1
00:15
Inefficient Market Place. The short answer is networking. Welcome to the next level income shorts are going to take your income, your Investments, and your life, to the next level. I am your host, Chris Larson. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website. Next level income. Dot-com, that's www.nasa.gov. Income.com just click on the book link and I will even send you a copy. If you put your address in, on today's show, we have Jamie Bateman James, an experienced, real estate, investor and business owner.
Speaker 2
00:43
Who's been actively buying and selling mortgage notes? Since early, 2018, he's acquired over, 75 notes with principal balances, in excess of four billion dollars, collateral cost, twenty States and growing more importantly, he has hands-on experience, overseeing construction, projects managing properties. And has experience in both the title and mortgage industry Industries. Having worked for years as a real estate settlement officer and mortgage funding manager. Jamie Bateman. Welcome to the show. Thanks man. Thanks for having me Chris. I really appreciate it. Absolutely well, I was fortunate enough to get to be on your podcast. I think what you were when you were kind of getting it started and really now I get to call your friend to get to meet you face-to-face out in Arizona doormat. Your mind here and in the last month, and I am really excited for you to be on the show and share a lot about what you're doing. Yeah, I appreciate it. Absolutely, before we get into that, I would love for Left for the audience to hear a little bit about your background, because you really do have quite an interesting background Jamie Fair. Yeah. So 19, January 6, 1976. I was born. So I am 46. Is old married two kids we live in outside of Baltimore Maryland and great sir currently should be bad solutely. I am currently a mortgage note investor and real estate investor, and we will get into that. As far as my crown goes, I grew up in Maryland and was heavily involved in athletics played at Gettysburg College and then decided to actually once I got out of school kind of typical athlete, Leet where didn't know exactly what I wanted to do? You know all of a sudden my what I devoted all this time and energy to was gone, and I am looking around and you know tried to figure out what to do next frankly, and so I ended up at a title company and that's when I realized I had no idea what title insurance is how to read a settlement statement. Any of that stuff even though my father had been a realtor for me but so did that and then ultimately decided I wanted to do Thing with a little bit more in my at that time, at least a little more meaning and purpose. And so, ended up joining the military went to Iraq for a year. I served, I was in the Army Reserves for years, did about four years of active duty time in the, through the reserves and, and then worked for the Department of Defense about 14 years. And then I actually worked part-time. And as I was, I was And of slowly building my real-estate Empire. And, and then this year, this past March, I ended up resigning from my job. And so now I am a full-time entrepreneur and business owner. I have a small team, I am really in leadership and kind of growth and Small Business and Entrepreneurship and obviously mortgage notes. Since 2018 is when I got it, really kind of summed over into that head first. So yeah, feel free to latch onto any of that. We can Branch out wherever you'd like. Yeah that's fantastic. And I want to dive deep into the note side, I got some, get some questions around that because some of the audience may have heard me talk about this. I invested in notes going back to like 2013 2014, which I think you and I have spoken about. We talk about the best. I would love to hear kind of how the world has changed with respect to that, but I think you said something interesting, you know, I have been through it. I know a lot of people in the podcast have been through it. We have a lot of competitive people that have had success in others and life. It's, it's really interesting when you take somebody to an elite athlete like you were and you play the cross, which might, yeah, she's always very fond of what position did you play, by the way? And fantastic sport. I played attacked, my whole, my family was a big lacrosse family and so five of the seven siblings played in college. So, yeah, I can talk all day about lacrosse, but you have to, if you have me back on, we will do a lacrosse episode. Damn, I have to change. I want to start a new podcast, talking about like sports and business. I would say what I used to love to, hire athletes and perhaps, perhaps, let us see, I, to, to hires it really sticks out my mind. One was a former Ranger actually Green Beret, and one. Yeah, was former professional lacrosse player so okay, yeah, they got all overlap there. But I think the big thing that you mentioned Jamie is that you know, you spent all your time in this thing that you Love, and we're devoted to which was lacrosse and there was that void. Yeah, absolutely. I think that there's a lot of similarities when you leave a job and you did both of these things Sookie. Talk a little bit about you know what did you learn from Sports? How did you fill that void? You know won't have what helped in your kind of your first career in the military? Yeah absolutely so now that's I am glad you asked that because for one thing I really haven't I have got my own You mentioned and I have been on other shows in never really kind of gone down this path too far. But yeah it's it really was a big life event. We were number one in division, 3 in La Crosse, my senior year, and then we ended up losing and kind of choked. And we the two teams that were in the national championship, they each had one loss and that was to us Gettysburg. So we'd be both of those teams. I realized nobody cares right now. It's that was 1999, but all of my energy and all of my focus, not all of it, of course I, you know, had other things going on but good bit of it was focused on that, and I am so all of a sudden, boom, it's gone. And yeah, I remember graduating and just being kind of little bit like you said a void. There was a big void. And if you haven't been an athlete or been a part of kind of team like you might find in the military like you I mentioned. Well you may not fully appreciate that but I just had no direction or sense of purpose at that point, and so I kind of lost frankly and you know from a human standpoint that was definitely a struggle for sure. You know certainly people deal with bigger more difficult things. But yeah I mean as far as what I would learned from Sports and things like that, Teamwork. I mean is it just, you know, and I talk to my kids about this all the time whether they want to hear it or not, but it doesn't have to be Sports. It's got to be but out of be part of something that's bigger than yourself. It's not all about you. And we touched on this slightly before we hit record, but various today's vary slightly in today's world. It's we're so obsessed with ourselves and immediate gratification and I think through Art's it taught me to put the mission first and put the team first. Certainly I wanted to succeed, you know, for myself but you're just being a part of something bigger than yourself and putting that the mission and the team first is really the biggest takeaway. And I would say the same thing with the military. It's just obviously being a part of a much bigger organizations, much bigger than just me. I think that really allows for a healthy perspective in a And just allow success later on. So those are a few of the takeaways, for sure. I think it's huge and I think I went through, like I said, I went through the same thing and, you know, when you, when you have a bigger purpose, there's something that pushes you forward. And I do think, you know, in today's world people are, people are struggling to find meaning to find connection and have these apps. Then we connect, we connect to people, through and covid, pull this apart and a lot of people are trying to find that and it is, it's something where, you know whether it's Sports when your younger, you find that bigger, meaning that bigger draw, but it is challenging when the you remove that, right? It, you know it's like how can you kind of translate into something else? Has is very important for sure. And you know and I think I have come to realize personally that may not always there, I am never going to get over it. You know it's okay as far as the Ended and things like that. I remember, I am a competitive person, but, you know, and I may not ever feel that exact void the way that it was before, but, you know, just still through family and other my business team and through the military previously. There are there other ways to serve people and be a part of something bigger than yourself? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's important. That's I mean, I think when it really hit me Jamie is I did have a void. I was going through a lot. I have talked about the loss of my best friend before which actually have Jamie as a phenomenal podcast and just share that actually share the name of that with the audience. Just, yeah, check it out. It's called, from adversity, to abundance. And I actually just checked right for this. And you were episode 12. So we're up to 33 probably maybe into the close to the 40's by the time, this comes out. But, so I am super excited about the podcast from adversity to abundance. Yeah, I love the name and when you told me you like, hey, would you consider coming on? I was like hell yeah, like this. That's awesome. Because it kind of, to me, it reminded me of something that Malcolm Gladwell calls desirable difficulties. And, you know, when you go through challenges in life, if, if you have the right framework, I think that maybe the challenge the criticism that some people might levy on. This is, if you don't have a support structure, and you're faced with a challenge, you fall apart and that's why I think sports are so important. Because even if you have a child, that might not have the right, family structure at home, Um, if you have that connection that bigger, meaning it teaches you so much Lily for me when I was leaving my W2 roll, I struggle that I was like, wow, like for me I was like, all right, do it is the money, there is the cash flow. There is the, you know, is the money in the bank. Can, I can I do this? And the answer was. Yes, yes, yes, that's like well, I better wait a little longer and then the answer was. Yes, yes, yes. And then my accountants like, hey, you should do this, you can.
Speaker 1
11:27
Do.
Speaker 2
11:28
It. I am not sure what I realized was. I really became a little introspective and I thought about it, I don't know what my purpose was going to be when I woke up when I quit my job. Yeah. And I thought, wait a minute. You know, is somebody who and I think this is true in our society, these days? Yeah, I am especially, and maybe people might say, you shouldn't say that Chris but as men we Define ourselves by our careers and how successful we are our positions. And, you know, I am a provider for My family at least, you know, I felt pride in that and I think we will shoot if I am not, you know, going to work in the morning and somebody's like, what are you doing? I am like, I don't really do anything. I just, you know, sit at home which isn't really what I would be meant to do. But more importantly for you that doing that. Yeah, I was like, more importantly. What if I am not relevant and that thought that's into my head? Kind of like something I wasn't. I was trying not to, To admit and then it hit me. I had to find a way to become relevant and I had to go and search for what my true purpose was sure. Yeah. Another not to make this podcast about my podcast, but another episode, The listeners may enjoy is one with Josh Kalinowski talks about ashes and get a amazing. Yeah are professional baseball career and that ended abruptly and then now what? And so his entire identity was wrapped up in that but yeah that's it. I have changed my views on retirement. And I don't plan to retire, man, and I have heard the, I have heard the, the, the saying, should look it's about retiring to something as opposed to retiring from something. So yeah, I am all about not saying I am going to grind 80 hours a week, you know into my 80s but I think you know, I think work is good. You know it's it provides purpose and identity and Direction it certainly does. And I think look if you're listening and you're working towards Financial Dependence if you really want to get there faster, figure out what your purpose is figure out what your big goal is and how you're going to have a bigger impact. Because what happens at least in retrospect is that you develop that hunger in that desire to make that impact faster and you have a bigger future in front of you and that's fun. That's fun. Yeah, and you're going towards something bigger. So that being said, I appreciate you sharing that Jamie because it really is we kind of went through that. It really kind of hit me. You know how meaningful that is? And how do we kind of shared a very similar pathway there? Let us talk about the fun part, like getting. Yeah. Right. Getting towards Financial Independence. I think, I think some in the audience may have heard about investing in notes before, but let us start kind of very fundamentally Jamie. So basically, people are like, what's a note, how do you invest in a node or a mortgage? Like, how does that work? Sure. So, you know, essentially you become the bank like it and what that is you buy A debt. So if I am investing in mortgage notes, I am buying the mortgage note itself. And what that essentially means is, I am not buying the property. The property is the collateral to the note, and I am buying the debt. So I am sure most of your listeners can appreciate having a mortgage. They potentially written a check to a mortgage company or paid online. However, they pay right many times that loan gets transferred that mortgage gets transferred to another company. Nothing, Changes with the terms of the loan with the monthly payment or anything like that, it's just who you're making Vince to. Well, that loan was purchased by a new investor or lender. However, you want to phrase it. So that's much like what we. And so in the most basic terms and note is a promise to pay, you have car notes, you have unsecured notes, you have notes all over the place, and note is just a promise to pay the world that we run. And in our space is the first lien mortgage note space. And so the mortgage is the document that links that note to the property, which is the collateral. So they're all kinds of rabbit holes. We could go down. But essentially we buy that debt, we become the bank and now the borrower owes us that those payments, and so we can get into performing notes versus non Perform, you know, different positions of notes, different strategies within note investing, but that's the basic concept right there. Yeah. So I think that's very important and I think the thing that's can be confusing is you say well, hang on. Jamie. I am going to make money just, you know, buying a mortgage and now becoming the servicer. Like where's the profit in it? How do you ready? Make it a profitable Endeavor. Yeah. Great quick question, and there are many different strategies that people employ we by forming, and Performing first lien mortgage notes, okay? So forming means that, the, the borrower is paying on time, there's career, not so warming means there are not falter, not so there's a lot of gray with defining this, to be honest. The typical definition would be the borrower's at least 90 days delinquent. So there are at least three months behind in making their mortgage payments, you know, most people make their mortgage payments on time in general, you know, 95% ish. So most people that are not super familiar with Note, investing might not understand, you know, that although of delinquent or defaulted debt and so, a non-performing note is where the borrower is behind, could be 90 days, it could be nine years. And so the most, the most basic way, I like to explain how to approach making a Profit or making a business out of note, investing is purchasing. Performing our non-performing notes and the Performing notes are much like a single-family buy-and-hold rental property. They're not it's not an equal strategy. There are differences of course such as tax advantages on the rental property side, but you're buying a performing note for cash flow. That's what buying it for. So, a lot of times, one of the major benefits of note investing is the discount that we're able to purchase the Note 4 up front. Oh, just a super basic example. Let us say that the this, the interest rate on the note is 8%. We typically run in this world kind of 7 to 10% their higher interest rate. Well, nowadays, that's the norm, I guess. But, yeah, six months ago, that was high, right? So I will buy that note at a count, which actually gets a the healed at maybe, say 12%. So actions do. What if the value of the note is a hundred thousand dollars. It's well-balanced. We might be able to buy that note for ninety thousand dollars. Meaning the actual return to us? Be over time becomes ten twelve, fourteen percent a performing note just to kind of keep it simple. The Performing note strategy, you're buying for cash flow. So I am buying this to get hopefully 12 to 14 percent yield every month. Check comes in from the bar where payment comes in, and I am buying that for cash flow. Keep the lights, run your business. You know, just like it just like a Buy and Hold rental property, you wanted to cash flow and I know you're, you know, in multifamily many other cash flow and cash flow. Yeah. Cash flow is huge, right? So that's the Performing notes. I would the non-performing notes I would be a little bit more like a fix and flip on a property. And so yeah that will give you because you're able to purchase a non-performing note at a greater discount. There's more distressed with that you know, your audience might say why? Rabbi in note, where the borrower is not making payments to me. Yeah. So that's initially may be counterintuitive. Well, here's an opportunity, right? And this is, you know, this is all about investing and Entrepreneurship as far as this is how you make in the world, is solving problems. So here's a problem. Note, where the borrower is not making payments there behind right? There are several to exit strategies with a non-performing note. The reason I use the Fix and Flip analogy is on a Fix and Flip property. You're buying a property. That is distressed. It's got issues. You need to be able to add value to that property. So what we do is we go in and add value to this note and again, many different ways you can do that but you're there's typically a well-defined exit point on a non-performing notes. Oh, you're buying it at of Greater discount. You're adding value and you're exiting the hopefully at As a performing note. And so that's something we can talk about. I know, I threw out a ton of different. No, that's great. Very sequential. And I think that you did, that was a terrific analogy buy-and-hold versus Fix and Flip. Because that's, you know, that's essentially what you're doing. I think, you know, I am curious. What type of discounts do you see on the Performing side versus the number forming side? Yeah, great question. And it has changed since you dabble 2013, 2014. We were buying stuff. For like yeah 10 15 cents on the dollar. Yeah, no I know it's a you're talking right now, non-performing notes might be 50 to 70 cents on the dollar and that dollar maybe the payoff could be the property value, but you're essentially targeting, you know, 50 to 60 cents on the dollar for the non-performing notes. Performing notes is more. I mean people are just been so much money out there. Chasing Old 90, I will say 85 to 95 percent of upb of unpaid balance. So still a discount but not nearly the discount on of they do, you can edit on a final note, there was a reminds me of the scene in The Big Short, you know, there was a lot of crap, shall we say in those, in those tickets in those, in those Stacks that we were buying, so the tapes were Vine right, right, right. But, yeah, there. Was there was a ton that we waited through. So okay how do you find them? That's the million-dollar question. It is an extremely. It's not you don't go online, you can go online. There are exchanges like paper stack and some other exchanges that one was for Brett Berkey but now you can go online and by notes on these exchanges and I buy and sell on paper stack and some others, but it's a very inefficient Market Place. The short answer is. Networking, you know, that really is how to find other find notes, 11 way that I over underestimated in the beginning of my note, in note Journey was other note investor so you know, there might be a small fund closing. For example, we have a we have to note funds. One is a non-performing, note fund, and one is the ending in about a year and a half. Well, if I haven't fully exited all of those Assets. I may need to sell off some of those notes because we're liquidating the fund. So I maybe someone to reach out to you know in a year and a half is if you're looking for notes. So I only bring that up because I didn't quite understand that in the beginning that other note investors, note funds are a great source of notes. Yeah I think it's a great point. And again people say like well Chris, why would anybody sell this multifamily asset that you guys are buying if it's such a great deal? It's like well we all have different strategies right, and we have different timelines and yeah. Who's the better different? It might be a different business part of your business cycle or I have bought some notes from you know, older note investors who were just getting out. They were just tired of actively managing notes and there was nothing wrong with the notes. Not, we can't get ripped off because you certainly can. And, you know, you have got to be educated and don't just start bidding on notes. And Buying notes without knowing what you're doing. But it doesn't mean that the asset itself is bad. Do you.
Speaker 1
24:10
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Speaker 2
25:02
Right. Yeah, now and it's I think and this is terrific because I was I wanted to talk about this part but you really are kind of the core which is, you know, when it comes to all these assets, specifically, when it comes to Value, add real estate were like you're doing value at node investing essentially? Yeah. Comes down to the operator. So Jamie, what makes Labrador lending different when it comes to the operation side? Yeah. We are a small shop. I have a small team that I have got a couple of people in the US who work for me and a couple of people outside of the US who work for me and it's I say that to say it's not a 50-person team, 100-person office where you're going to become a number. We really pay attention to each investor. Each client each person we with and each note that we buy, we're really very Hands-On with it. So that's one way that we separate ourselves and this is what I do. I mean this is you know, me five. Sound of my professional focus is mortgage note investing so it's not one of 25 businesses. I have we did start a Loan Servicing Company, that's a whole separate. That's another. That's after the look across episode. We will do one on the loan servicing but it is nice to be able to have that kind of control of a loan servicer as well, that is one nice benefit with working with us we can buy notes that fit well with by Phi Loan Servicing our loan servicer and you know have that kind of element of control there as well. We will do one on the loan servicing but it is nice to be able to have that kind of control of a loan servicer as well, that is one nice benefit with working with us we can buy notes that fit well with by Phi Loan Servicing our loan servicer and you know have that kind of element of control there as well. We will do one on the loan servicing but it is nice to be able to have that kind of control of a loan servicer as well, that is one nice benefit with working with us we can buy notes that fit well with by Phi Loan Servicing our loan servicer and you know have that kind of element of control there as well. We will do one on the loan servicing but it is nice to be able to have that kind of control of a loan servicer as well, that is one nice benefit with working with us we can buy notes that fit well with by Phi Loan Servicing our loan servicer and you know have that kind of element of control there as well. We will do one on the loan servicing but it is nice to be able to have that kind of control of a loan servicer as well, that is one nice benefit with working with us we can buy notes that fit well with by Phi Loan Servicing our loan servicer and you know have that kind of element of control there as well. We will do one on the loan servicing but it is nice to be able to have that kind of control of a loan servicer as well, that is one nice benefit with working with us we can buy notes that fit well with by Phi Loan Servicing our loan servicer and you know have that kind of element of control there as well. We will do one on the loan servicing but it is nice to be able to have that kind of control of a loan servicer as well, that is one nice benefit with working with us we can buy notes that fit well with by Phi Loan Servicing our loan servicer and you know have that kind of element of control there as well. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. So, if I could just one other quick thing, performing note called the Integrity income fund that is currently open for Capital. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. One of the things that separates us with that, that particular fund from other note funds that are out there, is that we have a 12-month lock up so you know, Easy upside with our fund. No there's not. No there's not. No there's not. No there's not. No there's not. No there's not. No there's not. No there's not. No there's not. No there's not. It's a monthly payment. It's a monthly payment. It's a monthly payment. It's a monthly payment. It's a monthly payment. It's a monthly payment. It's a monthly payment. It's a monthly payment. It's a monthly payment. It's a monthly payment. It's pretty boring and predictable which nowadays is not necessarily the worst thing. It's pretty boring and predictable which nowadays is not necessarily the worst thing. It's pretty boring and predictable which nowadays is not necessarily the worst thing. It's pretty boring and predictable which nowadays is not necessarily the worst thing. It's pretty boring and predictable which nowadays is not necessarily the worst thing. It's pretty boring and predictable which nowadays is not necessarily the worst thing. It's pretty boring and predictable which nowadays is not necessarily the worst thing. It's pretty boring and predictable which nowadays is not necessarily the worst thing. It's pretty boring and predictable which nowadays is not necessarily the worst thing. So I am good. So I am good. So I am good. So I am good. So I am good. So I am good. So I am good. So I am good. So I am good. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So and we don't have a five-year lockup. So and we don't have a five-year lockup. So and we don't have a five-year lockup. So and we don't have a five-year lockup. So and we don't have a five-year lockup. So and we don't have a five-year lockup. So and we don't have a five-year lockup. So and we don't have a five-year lockup. So and we don't have a five-year lockup. So when you're comparing asset classes and again, I don't. So when you're comparing asset classes and again, I don't. So when you're comparing asset classes and again, I don't. So when you're comparing asset classes and again, I don't. So when you're comparing asset classes and again, I don't. So when you're comparing asset classes and again, I don't. So when you're comparing asset classes and again, I don't. So when you're comparing asset classes and again, I don't. So when you're comparing asset classes and again, I don't. Every class, every strategy has pros and cons. Every class, every strategy has pros and cons. Every class, every strategy has pros and cons. Every class, every strategy has pros and cons. Every class, every strategy has pros and cons. Every class, every strategy has pros and cons. Every class, every strategy has pros and cons. Every class, every strategy has pros and cons. Every class, every strategy has pros and cons. I love multifamily. I love multifamily. I love multifamily. I love multifamily. I love multifamily. I love multifamily. I love multifamily. I love multifamily. I love multifamily. I love, you know, other asset classes, but if you don't have seven years to lock up your money, you might look at our notes. I love, you know, other asset classes, but if you don't have seven years to lock up your money, you might look at our notes. I love, you know, other asset classes, but if you don't have seven years to lock up your money, you might look at our notes. I love, you know, other asset classes, but if you don't have seven years to lock up your money, you might look at our notes. I love, you know, other asset classes, but if you don't have seven years to lock up your money, you might look at our notes. I love, you know, other asset classes, but if you don't have seven years to lock up your money, you might look at our notes. I love, you know, other asset classes, but if you don't have seven years to lock up your money, you might look at our notes. I love, you know, other asset classes, but if you don't have seven years to lock up your money, you might look at our notes. I love, you know, other asset classes, but if you don't have seven years to lock up your money, you might look at our notes. At fun which is only a 12-month period of that you're heavier that you're committed to. At fun which is only a 12-month period of that you're heavier that you're committed to. At fun which is only a 12-month period of that you're heavier that you're committed to. At fun which is only a 12-month period of that you're heavier that you're committed to. At fun which is only a 12-month period of that you're heavier that you're committed to. At fun which is only a 12-month period of that you're heavier that you're committed to. At fun which is only a 12-month period of that you're heavier that you're committed to. At fun which is only a 12-month period of that you're heavier that you're committed to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No I think Advance a great that's a great aspect of what you're talking about, you know? No I think Advance a great that's a great aspect of what you're talking about, you know? No I think Advance a great that's a great aspect of what you're talking about, you know? No I think Advance a great that's a great aspect of what you're talking about, you know? No I think Advance a great that's a great aspect of what you're talking about, you know? No I think Advance a great that's a great aspect of what you're talking about, you know? No I think Advance a great that's a great aspect of what you're talking about, you know? No I think Advance a great that's a great aspect of what you're talking about, you know? And we ultimately ended up. And we ultimately ended up. And we ultimately ended up. And we ultimately ended up. And we ultimately ended up. And we ultimately ended up. And we ultimately ended up. And we ultimately ended up. You have to learn the business going through it partner, we ended up as investors. You have to learn the business going through it partner, we ended up as investors. You have to learn the business going through it partner, we ended up as investors. You have to learn the business going through it partner, we ended up as investors. You have to learn the business going through it partner, we ended up as investors. You have to learn the business going through it partner, we ended up as investors. You have to learn the business going through it partner, we ended up as investors. You have to learn the business going through it partner, we ended up as investors. It was great because we were getting cash flow every month. It was great because we were getting cash flow every month. It was great because we were getting cash flow every month. It was great because we were getting cash flow every month. It was great because we were getting cash flow every month. It was great because we were getting cash flow every month. It was great because we were getting cash flow every month. It was great because we were getting cash flow every month. And we had a really, really solid return over the period of the fund, which was, it was a good fit for what we were looking for at the time for that portion of our portfolio. And we had a really, really solid return over the period of the fund, which was, it was a good fit for what we were looking for at the time for that portion of our portfolio. And we had a really, really solid return over the period of the fund, which was, it was a good fit for what we were looking for at the time for that portion of our portfolio. And we had a really, really solid return over the period of the fund, which was, it was a good fit for what we were looking for at the time for that portion of our portfolio. And we had a really, really solid return over the period of the fund, which was, it was a good fit for what we were looking for at the time for that portion of our portfolio. And we had a really, really solid return over the period of the fund, which was, it was a good fit for what we were looking for at the time for that portion of our portfolio. And we had a really, really solid return over the period of the fund, which was, it was a good fit for what we were looking for at the time for that portion of our portfolio. And we had a really, really solid return over the period of the fund, which was, it was a good fit for what we were looking for at the time for that portion of our portfolio. Yeah, Jamie you also mentioned you have multi family. Yeah, Jamie you also mentioned you have multi family. Yeah, Jamie you also mentioned you have multi family. Yeah, Jamie you also mentioned you have multi family. Yeah, Jamie you also mentioned you have multi family. Yeah, Jamie you also mentioned you have multi family. Yeah, Jamie you also mentioned you have multi family. Yeah, Jamie you also mentioned you have multi family. You have a pretty sizable portfolio? You have a pretty sizable portfolio? You have a pretty sizable portfolio? You have a pretty sizable portfolio? You have a pretty sizable portfolio? You have a pretty sizable portfolio? You have a pretty sizable portfolio? Well, outside of notes, sure, with your audience, a little bit of what else you like to invest in straddling the past, but what you're looking at over? Well, outside of notes, sure, with your audience, a little bit of what else you like to invest in straddling the past, but what you're looking at over? Well, outside of notes, sure, with your audience, a little bit of what else you like to invest in straddling the past, but what you're looking at over? Well, outside of notes, sure, with your audience, a little bit of what else you like to invest in straddling the past, but what you're looking at over? Well, outside of notes, sure, with your audience, a little bit of what else you like to invest in straddling the past, but what you're looking at over? Well, outside of notes, sure, with your audience, a little bit of what else you like to invest in straddling the past, but what you're looking at over? Well, outside of notes, sure, with your audience, a little bit of what else you like to invest in straddling the past, but what you're looking at over? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Several. Several. Several. Several. Several. Several. Several. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Several years. Several years. Several years. Several years. Several years. Several years. Several years. Well, great question. Well, great question. Well, great question. Well, great question. Well, great question. Well, great question. Well, great question. I have a longer bit of experience in doing single-family rentals, myself, with the kind of the Hands-On Burr method and my wife, and I were kind of slowly killing our own portfolio. I have a longer bit of experience in doing single-family rentals, myself, with the kind of the Hands-On Burr method and my wife, and I were kind of slowly killing our own portfolio. I have a longer bit of experience in doing single-family rentals, myself, with the kind of the Hands-On Burr method and my wife, and I were kind of slowly killing our own portfolio. I have a longer bit of experience in doing single-family rentals, myself, with the kind of the Hands-On Burr method and my wife, and I were kind of slowly killing our own portfolio. I have a longer bit of experience in doing single-family rentals, myself, with the kind of the Hands-On Burr method and my wife, and I were kind of slowly killing our own portfolio. I have a longer bit of experience in doing single-family rentals, myself, with the kind of the Hands-On Burr method and my wife, and I were kind of slowly killing our own portfolio. Since 2010. Since 2010. Since 2010. Since 2010. Since 2010. Since 2010. And that's been an important part of our portfolio from a kind of personal standpoint. And that's been an important part of our portfolio from a kind of personal standpoint. And that's been an important part of our portfolio from a kind of personal standpoint. And that's been an important part of our portfolio from a kind of personal standpoint. And that's been an important part of our portfolio from a kind of personal standpoint. And that's been an important part of our portfolio from a kind of personal standpoint. So my expertise is definitely more in the, in the single-family space whether that's through rentals or boats. So my expertise is definitely more in the, in the single-family space whether that's through rentals or boats. So my expertise is definitely more in the, in the single-family space whether that's through rentals or boats. So my expertise is definitely more in the, in the single-family space whether that's through rentals or boats. So my expertise is definitely more in the, in the single-family space whether that's through rentals or boats. So my expertise is definitely more in the, in the single-family space whether that's through rentals or boats. But I have invested in multifamily I have invested in Senior Living, I have invested in several different other types of income asset classes and strategies. But I have invested in multifamily I have invested in Senior Living, I have invested in several different other types of income asset classes and strategies. But I have invested in multifamily I have invested in Senior Living, I have invested in several different other types of income asset classes and strategies. But I have invested in multifamily I have invested in Senior Living, I have invested in several different other types of income asset classes and strategies. But I have invested in multifamily I have invested in Senior Living, I have invested in several different other types of income asset classes and strategies. But I have invested in multifamily I have invested in Senior Living, I have invested in several different other types of income asset classes and strategies. Which I know you can talk all day about. Which I know you can talk all day about. Which I know you can talk all day about. Which I know you can talk all day about. Which I know you can talk all day about. Which I know you can talk all day about. One thing I have come to realize which you already said, but it's all about the operator and I don't, I am not going to become an expert in car. One thing I have come to realize which you already said, but it's all about the operator and I don't, I am not going to become an expert in car. One thing I have come to realize which you already said, but it's all about the operator and I don't, I am not going to become an expert in car. One thing I have come to realize which you already said, but it's all about the operator and I don't, I am not going to become an expert in car. One thing I have come to realize which you already said, but it's all about the operator and I don't, I am not going to become an expert in car. One thing I have come to realize which you already said, but it's all about the operator and I don't, I am not going to become an expert in car. Washes, most likely, right? Washes, most likely, right? Washes, most likely, right? Washes, most likely, right? Washes, most likely, right? Washes, most likely, right? And so, but I could still find a way to invest in a car, wash operation, and so I don't have the time to be kind to devote myself to everything. And so, but I could still find a way to invest in a car, wash operation, and so I don't have the time to be kind to devote myself to everything. And so, but I could still find a way to invest in a car, wash operation, and so I don't have the time to be kind to devote myself to everything. And so, but I could still find a way to invest in a car, wash operation, and so I don't have the time to be kind to devote myself to everything. And so, but I could still find a way to invest in a car, wash operation, and so I don't have the time to be kind to devote myself to everything. And so, but I could still find a way to invest in a car, wash operation, and so I don't have the time to be kind to devote myself to everything. And so there are a lot of great asset classes and strategies out there still invest in without being the operator. And so there are a lot of great asset classes and strategies out there still invest in without being the operator. And so there are a lot of great asset classes and strategies out there still invest in without being the operator. And so there are a lot of great asset classes and strategies out there still invest in without being the operator. And so there are a lot of great asset classes and strategies out there still invest in without being the operator. And so there are a lot of great asset classes and strategies out there still invest in without being the operator. ER so yeah, I didn't really answer looking forward per se, but I think some recession resistant you know mobile home parks, even Self Storage. ER so yeah, I didn't really answer looking forward per se, but I think some recession resistant you know mobile home parks, even Self Storage. ER so yeah, I didn't really answer looking forward per se, but I think some recession resistant you know mobile home parks, even Self Storage. ER so yeah, I didn't really answer looking forward per se, but I think some recession resistant you know mobile home parks, even Self Storage. ER so yeah, I didn't really answer looking forward per se, but I think some recession resistant you know mobile home parks, even Self Storage. I think would be still a great option. I think would be still a great option. I think would be still a great option. I think would be still a great option. I think would be still a great option. I think notes are option actually going forward. I think notes are option actually going forward. I think notes are option actually going forward. I think notes are option actually going forward. I think notes are option actually going forward. And, you know, so just to reiterate with, with Note investing, I am not buying the collateral, I am not buying the property. And, you know, so just to reiterate with, with Note investing, I am not buying the collateral, I am not buying the property. And, you know, so just to reiterate with, with Note investing, I am not buying the collateral, I am not buying the property. And, you know, so just to reiterate with, with Note investing, I am not buying the collateral, I am not buying the property. And, you know, so just to reiterate with, with Note investing, I am not buying the collateral, I am not buying the property. We may end up with the property in some scenarios, and we do Yeah, so good that you have been a house flipper because that's, that's him. We may end up with the property in some scenarios, and we do Yeah, so good that you have been a house flipper because that's, that's him. We may end up with the property in some scenarios, and we do Yeah, so good that you have been a house flipper because that's, that's him. We may end up with the property in some scenarios, and we do Yeah, so good that you have been a house flipper because that's, that's him. We may end up with the property in some scenarios, and we do Yeah, so good that you have been a house flipper because that's, that's him. Yeah, that would be my first question. Yeah, that would be my first question. Yeah, that would be my first question. Yeah, that would be my first question. Yeah, that would be my first question. If anybody's talking to somebody that's doing this is hey, have you ever end, have you ever done the other side of the business? If anybody's talking to somebody that's doing this is hey, have you ever end, have you ever done the other side of the business? If anybody's talking to somebody that's doing this is hey, have you ever end, have you ever done the other side of the business? If anybody's talking to somebody that's doing this is hey, have you ever end, have you ever done the other side of the business? If anybody's talking to somebody that's doing this is hey, have you ever end, have you ever done the other side of the business? Kind of the dirty side? Kind of the dirty side? Kind of the dirty side? Kind of the dirty side? Kind of the dirty side? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Or no, right? Or no, right? Or no, right? Or no, right? Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. And so having that hands-on experience with, I have done from a distance I have purchased it. And so having that hands-on experience with, I have done from a distance I have purchased it. And so having that hands-on experience with, I have done from a distance I have purchased it. And so having that hands-on experience with, I have done from a distance I have purchased it. If your listeners are interested in learning more about through a case study that we did or that an actual case that we had that they can study it Sarge Jacksonville non-performing notes study. If your listeners are interested in learning more about through a case study that we did or that an actual case that we had that they can study it Sarge Jacksonville non-performing notes study. If your listeners are interested in learning more about through a case study that we did or that an actual case that we had that they can study it Sarge Jacksonville non-performing notes study. And so performing note that turned into a rental property. And so performing note that turned into a rental property. And so performing note that turned into a rental property. And so performing note that turned into a rental property. We did a rehab from a distance, so there were many moving Parts with that. We did a rehab from a distance, so there were many moving Parts with that. We did a rehab from a distance, so there were many moving Parts with that. We did a rehab from a distance, so there were many moving Parts with that. I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't want it. My goal with notes is not to back the property, we're working with borrowers to keep them in their homes. My goal with notes is not to back the property, we're working with borrowers to keep them in their homes. My goal with notes is not to back the property, we're working with borrowers to keep them in their homes. My goal with notes is not to back the property, we're working with borrowers to keep them in their homes. I would much prefer to do a loan modification or some type of workout with the borrower. I would much prefer to do a loan modification or some type of workout with the borrower. I would much prefer to do a loan modification or some type of workout with the borrower. Always possible though, and so I am not afraid to take back the property and I have done that on numerous occasions and so you know it's like parenting like you have got a lot of these borrowers. Always possible though, and so I am not afraid to take back the property and I have done that on numerous occasions and so you know it's like parenting like you have got a lot of these borrowers. Always possible though, and so I am not afraid to take back the property and I have done that on numerous occasions and so you know it's like parenting like you have got a lot of these borrowers. Frankly they need to know that you're serious and that you will follow through on your word and you will foreclose. Frankly they need to know that you're serious and that you will follow through on your word and you will foreclose. It has to I would like to work something out but if you know but yeah the point to get to there is that I don't always know how every deal. It has to I would like to work something out but if you know but yeah the point to get to there is that I don't always know how every deal. It has to I would like to work something out but if you know but yeah the point to get to there is that I don't always know how every deal. Turn out. Turn out. Turn out. But I am okay, you know, I am okay, no matter what, if it takes a turn this way or that way we have certainly lost money on deals. But I am okay, you know, I am okay, no matter what, if it takes a turn this way or that way we have certainly lost money on deals. But I am okay, you know, I am okay, no matter what, if it takes a turn this way or that way we have certainly lost money on deals. Chris, I am not saying I haven't but I do have that experience and, and, you know, it doesn't always go the way I think it's going to, but if we buy right? And we do our due diligence, we should be protected. And we do our due diligence, we should be protected. That's awesome. That's awesome. And that's one of the benefits of investing in a fun. And that's one of the benefits of investing in a fun. Jamie, and if listeners want to learn, they want to get that. Jamie, and if listeners want to learn, they want to get that. That case study, that you mentioned. That case study, that you mentioned. That actual case that you guys, It went through. That actual case that you guys, It went through. Yeah. But they weren't want to learn more about the different funds that you have and about your operation. What's the best way to get in touch? Yeah, I appreciate that. Labrador lending.com. It really has everything here in the notes section. Yep. So we have got when I realized that, you know, ultimately, I am sure you have come to the same realization, Chris's most investor being either an active or passive investor. And so, we have, we kind of divided, things up that way. So I do have a mentorship program. I don't really push. It much. But for if you really want to be an active node, investor we can work through that. But for Passive note investors, we have got one fund that's open right now and that's the Integrity come fund. We also have a free ebook which has 74 Pages, it's chock-full of content, and that, that case study, that we mentioned is in that ebook. So that's where I would Point our listeners to Labrador lending.com beautiful. Well, Jamie thanks for sharing that if you want to check out more on. Jamie's business on his opportunities. It's a labrador learning-dot-com, which is here in the show notes and also one more time, Jamie your podcast for the listeners. Yeah, it's from adversity to abundance. I just launched it in March April, 20, 22. So, super excited. We have had some really good guest. So, from adversity, to abundance, please check it out, awesome. Jamie, thanks for being on the show.
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Today, I appreciate it. Chris, thanks a lot. Hey, Chris here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now, I have one more thing to give to you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book, as well as much more from previous guests on the show, just check out next level. Income.com / coaching to get a free copy of my Book audiobook and much more. I will send you a copy of my book and cover. All the shipping costs as a. Thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple podcast.
