Mortgage Notes vs. Land Investing: Two Heavyweights Debate the Best Strategy with Chris Seveney & Mark Podolsky
Episode Details
Transcript
In this episode, the gloves come off! Jamie Bateman moderates a back-and-forth debate between two lesser-known but increasingly popular investing strategies.
Tune in as two powerhouse investors–Chris Seveney and Mark Podolsky–debate the merits of investing in mortgage notes and land. Which path is right for you? Uncover the pros and cons of each strategy and be prepared for some shocking insights. Stay tuned to find out which asset class could hold the key to building long-term wealth. You won't want to miss this eye-opening debate that could change your investment game forever. Listen in to learn the unexpected truth that could transform your real estate portfolio.
My special guests are Chris Seveney & Mark Podolsky
Chris Seveney and Mark Podolsky, two powerhouses in the mortgage note investing and land investing space, bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to this episode. Chris has a background in real estate and construction management, transitioning to become a successful mortgage note investor. His expertise lies in building and managing a robust real estate portfolio and launching multiple funds for investors. On the other hand, Mark Podolsky, known for his innovative land investing strategies, has carved a niche for himself in the real estate industry. With his extensive experience and success in land investing, he offers valuable insights into the opportunities and advantages within this space. Both guests bring unique perspectives and expertise, making this debate an insightful and engaging discussion for real estate investors.
"There's one thing nobody can buy, and that is time. We can't buy more time. So you've got to take advantage of all your time that you have." - Mark Podolsky
"At the end of the day, we're both the bank. It's really. We're both the bank now. We both don't have debt. We are the debt. We're both building cash flow businesses that are building wealth over time." - Chris Seveney
Connect with Chris Seveney
Website: https://7einvestments.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/christopher.seveney
https://www.facebook.com/7Einvestments
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriseveney
https://www.instagram.com/chrisseveney
https://www.instagram.com/7einvestments
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherseveney/
Connect with Mark Podolsky
Website: https://www.frontierpropertiesusa.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thelandgeek
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thelandgeek/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mark.podolsky.3
https://www.facebook.com/thelandgee k
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Speaker 0
Are you ready to transform your financial future through mortgage note investing? Hi. I'm Jamie Bateman, host of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. As a passionate entrepreneur myself and real estate investor myself, I've dedicated my career to empowering investors like you. Join my mentorship program tailored to meet your unique business objectives with a very small financial commitment to get started. Gain access to my personal experience, trusted consultants and vendors, and receive customized mentoring services. You'll get hands on guidance on everything from determining your buy box and reviewing your bidding processes to managing notes with third party servicers, handling collateral, and much more. Don't wait. Visit labrador lending dot com to start your journey to abundance today. Let's unlock your full potential together. This episode was a ton of fun to record, and you're gonna have a ton of fun listening to it. We have on Chris Seveny and Mark Podolsky, two powerhouses in the mortgage note investing space and land investing space. And these two guys debate on this episode the merits of mortgage note investing versus land investing. Now there is some crossover in this space, and that's why a lot of people and a lot of newer investors, real estate investors have an ongoing question. Which which of these two asset classes should I get into? What are the pros and cons of each? That's what we're gonna dive into today. And there are some there are some surprises for sure. I just wanna point out both of these gentlemen have been on our from adversity to abundance show previously. Chris was on episode three, I believe it was, and his was entitled his episode was called From Financial Marital and Health Struggles to Real Estate and Note Investing Success with Chris Seveny. And then, Mark Podolsky was on, a little bit after Chris, and his episode is entitled How Financial Collapse Allowed Mark Podolsky to Create a Healthy View of Self Self Worth and the Game of Making Money. These titles are a little too long, but, man, these guys so if you wanna dive into their past and and be inspired by their adversity to abundance stories, those are the two episodes to listen to. But if you wanna know more about the pros and cons to mortgage note investing and the pros and cons to land investing, this episode is the one you want to listen to. Speaker 1
Welcome to From Adversity to Abundance, the go to podcast for real estate entrepreneurs seeking not just to thrive, but to conquer with resilience and mental sharpness. Each week, join us as we dive into the compelling world of real estate through the lens of mental fitness, where challenges transform into opportunities. Get ready to transform your mindset and expand your understanding of what it takes to succeed in real estate. Let's explore these stories of triumph and resilience together. Speaker 0
Welcome everybody to another episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and this is gonna be a lot of fun today. Today, we have a debate between Chris Seveny and Mark Podolski. We are going to be debating the merits of land investing versus mortgage note investing. Chris, how are you doing today? Speaker 2
I'm doing wonderful. How are you doing, Jamie? Speaker 0
This is this is gonna be fun. I'm doing great. I as a friend of mine says, the sun is shining, birds are chirping, although that's not true. So I'm I'm doing well. Mark Podolski, how are you doing today, sir? How'd you sleep last night? You do. I've heard that about you. Right. That's I mean, on one hand, does that mean you weren't you're not nervous about this debate? I I don't know. But maybe you just you knew you needed rest for this debate, so you went to bed early. This is gonna be exciting. So both Chris and Mark, for the listener, out there both Chris and Mark are previous guests on my show, so I would highly recommend you go check out those episodes. Definitely worth listening to. But in case, for some reason, the listener does not go back and listen to those two episodes, Chris, can you give us a a one minute overview of your background and particularly how it pertains and relates to mortgage note investing? Speaker 2
Me doing anything in one minute, Jamie. Speaking is gonna be intense. But, yeah. So I've been in real estate my entire, adult career, which if you ask my wife, has been about three days. But, really, it boils back to my twenties and thirties where I was spending sixty hours a week in construction management for a large firm. While that allowed me to build some really cool projects, it didn't give me much else in life. So when I hit my thirties and started having children, noticed I needed to change my tune and became much more entrepreneurial. So in twenty sixteen, I start started my real estate portfolio and stumbled upon note investing. And love at first sight, being an engineer, numbers, problem solving was my dream. You know, spreadsheets for life. My portfolio kept growing, and interest in investing continued where I had people wanting to invest with me and started launching a fund. And then several funds later, next thing I know, today, I run a regulation a plus fund with, accredited and nonaccredited investors where we've raised about twenty five million over the last two years and have bought, about six hundred plus notes overall and currently have about a hundred and fifty in our fund, which also has about six hundred investors. Speaker 0
Well done, sir. Might have been over sixty seconds, but that was that was Speaker 2
I was just thinking, like, you'd have a little timer on the screen or something that counts down, like, you know, with the red flashing when you're at a conference and the little light starts blinking to tell you to shut the hell up? Speaker 0
When we get started for the the actual debate, I will have a timer here. But, Mark, one minute for your background and how it pertain how it relates to land, and how did you get into land investing, and how is there how have you benefited? How has it brought brought your life abundance? Shot across the bow. Well done. Well done. I forgot Speaker 2
to grab a towel so I can throw it in because Just Speaker 0
tap you tapping out? Speaker 2
Tapping out. Yeah. Speaker 0
Alright. What we're gonna do now, we're gonna actually switch, and Mark's gonna go first. We're gonna go with five minutes of opening statements for Mark, and we're gonna go into the an explanation of what land investing is. And then if you get hit on some advantages and opportunities that are currently in the land space, Mark, and then maybe a success story or some personal experience that you've had. And I'm gonna start the the five minutes right now. You ready? Alright. Let's go. Speaker 2
Virginia. I do own land in Arizona, by the way. Yeah. It's funny. Speaker 0
Ninety seconds. Ninety seconds. Wow. That is right on five minute mark. You had about ten seconds to spare. Speaker 2
I'm just right on, like, end. Can I go home now? I'm Speaker 0
not even part of the debate, and I feel the same way. Mark, where's Speaker 2
the link to your training? Like, can I hang up today? Speaker 0
Alright. Chris? Yes. Speaker 2
Ready? Gonna I'm ready. Speaker 0
Explanation of mortgage note investing and then advantages and opportunities in the mortgage note investing space and then maybe a success story or personal experience. You ready? Speaker 2
I am ready. Speaker 0
You have five minutes. You are on the Speaker 2
clock. So mortgage loan investing is most people actually never heard of it, but everyone is always involved in it. Because when you buy a house, most people finance it. And after you finance it with the lender, many people get a letter in the mail that says, now send your payments to this person. When that happens, your mortgages have just been sold. And residential mortgage investing is about a sixteen trillion dollar industry, give you the size of this industry. And what we do is you're buying the loans on the secondary market. So lenders who originate will turn around and sell loans on that secondary market, and we like to purchase those, when they're in default or when borrowers are behind in their payments. We all probably know somebody who's missed a mortgage payment. Now contrary to popular belief, most people have it's set in their mind that, oh my god. If I miss a payment, you know, the sheriff's gonna come kicking in my door and rip me out of my house, and I'll be foreclosed upon in thirty days. Our average default on our loans is about three years to give you an idea of how long people have been behind on those, mortgages. And we purchased them at a discount from banks, private parties, hedge funds. And by purchasing an idea discount, it allows us to focus our strategy, assessing the risk on each note in the return by factoring in what we call the three p's, the property. And like Mark, we do the same due diligence that Mark did. So thanks, Mark. So give me a minute from repeating all that due diligence. You know, we'll also, you know, the title reports, you know, taxes are owed. We wanna make sure those are all paid. We'll look at the person. You know, we've seen people who have a seventeen page rap sheet or they file bankruptcy six times. Not something we wanna deal with. You know, because our goal is to keep these people in their property and work with them to keep them in their home and create passive income. And last is we look at people's predicament. Most people just don't wake up one day and say, oh, I'm not gonna pay my mortgage today. People death, divorce, job loss, medical. Now people go through hardships all the time, and sixty percent of Americans live, unfortunately, paycheck to paycheck. And with what everything costs today, it's probably even higher. So we'll buy a mortgage, from a lender, and I'll give an example of a hundred thousand dollar loan. We purchase it for sixty thousand dollars, and the person's living in the house. And we like to focus on loans that are, like, ten years old because what has happened in the last ten years? Property values have appreciated significantly while they paid down their mortgage a little bit. So we like properties that have equity because the two ways you can exit a mortgage is either through the borrower or through the property, which through the borrower is we're trying to get them on a revised payment plan. And by getting you know, so they might be fifteen thousand dollars behind. A prior lender is just gonna say, give me fifteen thousand dollars or else. We'll say, give me five thousand dollars and start making your payments again, and we'll modify the loan. And then we'll sell that not in, unfortunately, thirty days like Mark can do, but in eight to twelve months. And if we bought it at sixty cents on a dollar, we can turn around and sell it at eighty cents on the dollar while also doing the good of keeping somebody in their home and focusing on, you know, that strategy. There are times when, unfortunately, we have to foreclose on a borrower, and then we have that real estate, that we still have that asset, that is still in demand, that somebody can look and turn around and sell. Speaker 0
Yeah. About about one minute. Speaker 2
Okay. Some of the advantages are requirement at a discount. We can buy on the secondary market where we're not originating a loan today. That's a three hundred thousand dollar house and a two seventy mortgage. Our hundred thousand dollar mortgages today are probably worth three hundred thousand. So we look at it as a lower risk. There's always risk in investing, with that significant equity. And also no. You know? I'll use it that people love real estate. You know? If you can show somebody a picture of a house like, oh, I own the loan on this or drive through any city who owns the tallest building in that city. It's a bank. And at the end of the day, Mark's a bank. I'm a bank. It's just how we become the bank, but both at the end, we are the bank. Speaker 0
Man, fifteen seconds left. You guys both ended right at fifteen seconds left. That's amazing. Yes. So both of you can become the bank. Mark, you're you're on mute. Just you may know that. And, absolutely. Wait a minute. We're not supposed to be friends here. This is we're not supposed to get along on this during this debate. That was that was really good. Alright. So round two. Round two is going to be rebuttal and counterarguments. So Mark has five minutes to respond to Chris's points, and you're gonna present counterarguments. Specifically, Mark, you're gonna address any misconceptions or weaknesses that you see pertaining to mortgage note investing, and then highlights strengths of land investing when compared to those those, downsides of mortgage note investing. Questions? Alright. Five minutes, sir. Here we go. You're on the clock. Short term rentals? And just because they have it yeah. Speaker 2
Seven e investments dot com or labrador lending dot com. Pick your pick. That's right. Speaker 0
Okay. So Speaker 2
Mhmm. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Yep. It's around him. One minute. One minute. Yeah. Alright. Bitcoin? Speaker 2
Bitcoin. Yeah. Meme stocks? You know? Speaker 0
I'll save my, summary or, you know, clarification for after Chris goes. Because I I do think there were a couple of things you highlighted that that are we can point to about land investing that are not found in mortgage note investing. But I don't wanna step on Chris's toes. Chris, you are going to have five minutes to do a rebuttal and counterargument. You're gonna address any misconceptions that there are out there about land investing and highlight strengths that mortgage loan investing has when compared to land investing. You ready? Speaker 2
Yep. Speaker 0
Alright. Let's do it. You're on the clock. Speaker 2
I think some of the misconceptions about land investing is that, you know, you have to spend a lot of money upfront to find these properties and parcels, which is not truly the case. If you get a system in place like Mark has, it can be done very efficient and effective. Another misconception I think a lot of people have about the land is the quality of the borrower in regards to, oh, it's somebody who's just, you know, doesn't have the money or isn't qualified that just wants to have it. There's a lot of high net worth people who are just looking to buy land because land is something that we don't create more of, unless you're in a coastal area where to get rid of some and add in some. And, also, the other aspect that I saw, a really interesting stat that blew my mind, was on that seller financing component that Mark does with Land. The average down payment's, like, twenty five or thirty percent. I mean, it's pretty substantial where a lot of times people will sometimes market it as, oh, I'll sell it for zero down and so forth. They may be getting it at a very low price in getting that type of deal. But when they go to sell it, they're very sophisticated in understanding how to structure how how to structure that. You know, some of the other aspects with notes and kinda some of the pros, that you know, some people view this as a con, but I also view it as a pro. As Mark mentioned, we've got RESPA, CFPB, consumer protection. You have all of these rules in place. The good thing about that, though, is it gets out all the riffraff or the majority of it. There's still some. We know some. But it gets out so it does sometimes limit the competition for people who wanna get involved because they're too intimidated. The other aspect of notes, especially us where we like to buy nonperforming, is it is a conflict oriented business. And if you, you know, you try and work with people, but also you have to understand it's a business and it's conflict oriented. I came from that background. So for me to call an attorney and say, hey. We gotta do this. Let's send a demand letter. Let's get the process rolling. Meanwhile, we wanna work with them but bring them to the table, but sometimes you gotta push or pull a borrower, unfortunately, to get them to come play. That intimidates people. I know somebody right now who's been actually a land note that went nonperforming that I'm like, wow. It's in Texas. File the foreclosure on the guy. Just get it over with. Well, he's been telling me for four months that he's gonna pay me this, and I'm like, start the process at least. You can always push that date. So, now one of the things that I'll mention, you know, again, land versus notes where it's similar, but I think, honestly, land has the advantage is when Mark talks about the value. Now it's very difficult to get value of land. It's It's very difficult to get a value of a property because we don't get to see the inside of the house. We can't go as a lender. I don't know any lender that will come knock, allow you to knock on the door and say, hey. Can I come look at the inside of your house? You know, you so we don't know what these houses look like. I've had deals where I mean, we could be on episodes of Hoarders, and the the loan would have made more money being on Hoarders from the TV rights than it would have been from the amount of money that we spent twelve thousand dollars to pick up all the trash out of these properties. I will refute one point, Mark, though. I bet you my land I have land in Florida and Arizona that probably both have snakes. So they don't have rodents, but they have snakes, which I'm not sure which ones work. Yeah. I'm gonna digress and take a minute. I know a guy that breeds exotic snakes and gets, like, fifty to a hundred grand per snake, and this guy's rolling in seven figures a year by having snakes breed in his basement. And you want to talk passive? That's all this guy does. And I'm sitting here buying notes and doing borrowers, and he's sitting next to me at a table, and I'm like, are you serious? Speaker 0
We'll have to have him on the next episode Exactly. To be. Speaker 2
One other thing, that Speaker 0
Thirty seconds. Speaker 2
I'll mention is, you know, notes and land. I will say, again, back to land is you can get involved in land at a much lower price point. You know, notes, few years ago, you could start ten, twenty thousand. Today, that's probably bumped up to twenty five to fifty thousand dollar entry point, which, again, is a positive sometimes because I don't have, you know, uneducated people overbidding for stuff or or, you know, flooding the market, with, you know, overbidding on stuff. We still see it, but sometimes you might see that issue areas where it's a lower cost of entry, you might have more competition. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Time is up. Alright. Oh, that was there's a lot to a lot to dive into. We we've got one round here where we're just gonna it's a little more free flowing. I'm gonna ask some questions. That was really good. You know, then the the reality is we know there's pros and cons to both sides and the true and and, look, they're both pretty pretty similar. And one of the reasons I wanted to have you guys on is because, you know, I do run-in the mortgage note space more than the land space. And so from my perspective, I've I I don't know if if it's because I've gotten to know Mark more over the last couple years or or what it is, but I've I've started to see more and more land notes, and land investors and just it seems to be, you know, more popular. And so I I've I've come across in mentoring people. People will kind of be at that crossroads of which one of these two should I choose. So let's start there in the q and a session. First to Chris, if you have a a new note investor, we know there's no right or wrong answer here, but new note investor, they come to you and they say, I'm not really sure. Should I should I get into to land or I'm sorry. New investor new real estate investor. They've got a little capital to spend, and they've got a lot of time. Time. Should I do mortgage notes, or should I do land investing? Speaker 2
Great question. I usually will push people more towards a note in a performing loan. And one of the reasons why is with the mortgage note, it's okay. There's a property. You know, a property can be there. You can get a little better probably valuation on it. One of the concerns I have with some and Mark is can answer as much better than me. But some of the land deals that I've seen people put out there recently have been swampland, unbuildable, not, you know, not, you know, doesn't meet zoning requirements. So trying to understand some of that due diligence, can be challenging. And for you know? And if you need to sell a a mortgage note, I think, you know, it might be a little bit easier to sell a mortgage note backed by a physical piece of real estate than it is a land note, but Mark's done six thousand of these. Oh, I know he can, know, probably, provide more insight. This is just kind of my Yeah. Will go through my head, but, again, I'm not in that space. So, Mark Yeah. Speaker 0
Let's Mark, let's throw it over to you. Same question. New new real estate investor got some capital to put to work. They have lots of time. They they're debating the merits of these two. And and, you know, pretend you you don't have your your your own system that you you know, just pretend you're you're not biased here. Which which, direction do you point them into? Fair. Fair. Speaker 2
I'm biased. Speaker 0
Well, look. There's okay. Let's let's forget that. Let's be real then. There's a Speaker 2
mhmm. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Right. Sure. Speaker 2
Right. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2
Mhmm. Speaker 0
Yeah. Chris Chris wants to chime in. Speaker 2
I just got a joke. I tell Jamie I'm just a dumb pollock, Mark, who does this. So, you know, Podolsky probably, you know, he might be a little Polish in there too. But one thing I'll say, I I like what you mentioned about, like, the five hundred dollars, though, because if you lose five hundred bucks, it's five hundred bucks. I would think because people always ask this question, like, with mortgage note investing and versus land. I would view land investing easier to scale than mortgage note investing for three reasons. One is the lower cost of entry. The second is your turn ratio. If you can turn these things like you are, I buy it, I get somebody down payment, even if it took you six months to do that process. The mortgage note life cycle on average is twelve to eighteen months. And like you said, it's a higher cost of entry where if I could buy twenty land notes for a thousand a piece versus one mortgage note at twenty thousand, a, you're reducing your risk. But, also, if you could turn those you know? So I would look at the the land side of things from if somebody's like, hey. I wanna quit my job in a period of time. If they're sophisticated and sharp, and understand kind of the metrics and, you know, again, cut you a check to learn how to do it, based on the training that you had, which has had, I don't know how many, tens of thousands of students, I would think the land is something that you can scale up much quicker and get cash in the door faster than mortgage notes. Speaker 0
I'm starting to think in, six months, we're gonna have you both back on, but you're gonna be on the other side. You're talking talking yourselves into switching sides here. Speaker 2
It it's funny because I do have. I literally Friday so the way I invest in land is kind of backwards a little bit of I buy defaulted paper that's on land, And I usually get that at a significant discount because what Mark just said, just like the borrowers don't want it and you'll write my check for twenty five hundred, I will basically buy that land note very cheap, go through the foreclosure process, just get it wiped or whatever, take ownership. I just took ownership twenty five acres in West Virginia, and I'm sitting there thinking, wow. This would be a good one because I know it would be a good place for a hunting cabin. And I'm like, oh, I'll sell our finance to somebody on a hunting cabin. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
And then instead of owning it, just sit there and collect that cash flow. I've got three properties in North Carolina, one Arizona, two up in Oregon, I think. So I've got, like, fifteen properties, so I can't sit here and diss Wait. That's when I've got about the properties that are just sitting there. You know, eventually, that I'll probably turn around and look to seller finance. Speaker 0
So I'm gonna so this is gonna be a little bit this this question is gonna be a little bit less of a debate question and more just educational. To Mark first, since you've gotten into the land investing space, it's a two part question. What has changed in the marketplace and just the conditions overall? What has changed since you started to now, and and what do you see changing in, say, the next few years, as far as land investing goes? Speaker 2
Mhmm. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Got it. Great answer. Chris, same question. What has changed since you've gotten into the mortgage note space, and what do you think the future holds? Speaker 2
Yeah. First, I wanna just touch upon what Mark said about, like, land investing. When I was at Note Expo last year, the number of people who are doing land was there were more people doing land than notes, and I'm like, oh, wow. But a lot of more, like, in Texas, and what they're doing is buying large parcels, subdividing them, bringing utilities in, and then seller financing where people come in and someone will buy the trailers and but, I mean, there's so like Mark said, there's so many different aspects of land investing just like there is so many different aspects of node investing. Technology agree one hundred percent. DataTree, PropStream. You know, I joke to my wife I need to get an Oculus Quest to use Google Street View where you can put the Oculus on and now use that to turn your head and look at the neighborhood. You know, there's an app on there too. So if anyone's looking to get an Oculus, you know, just blame it on your investing needs it, not that you wanna be a kid, and play Beat Saber or whatever it is. But, you know, technology has definitely changed. I think what's changed, though, the most in the mortgage note space has been the government regulations, that have happened. We, you know, we raise money from investors, and the first thing people ask, oh, is it, like, two thousand eight? Two thousand eight is, like, the Internet from nineteen ninety seven in mortgage note investing where, you know, it was dial up not I mean, so much has changed where there's so much more restrictions and safeguards in place, which, again, has been good, and it has been bad. It's been good because now you have to be a little bit more honest to be in the space. Again, there's still always bad players, out there, but it does make it more challenging for licensing and some of these other things. The other major change, again, we've seen is just like everybody has seen in real estate is pricing increase. Supply and demand and less supply, more demand. The government printed six trillion dollars that made its way to people and people are sitting on cash. They wanna spend that money. So that is caused, like, you know, nonperforming loans. I was looking at an asset that six years ago, I could buy for thirty five cents on the dollar. Today, that asset would sell for seventy double, about seventy cents on the dollar. Now you can still make money, but what it's caused is very similar to what's happened in traditional real estate, whether you're a landlord or a multifamily guy. You know, the joke has been you could have been out on a ship in the middle of the ocean for the last four years and made money on the deal because of appreciation. That's gone. It's all about management. What Mark mentioned earlier, buying it you gotta buy it right. And you gotta have that education and experience. And the people who don't have that knowledge, you know, who is it? Warren Buffett said, you know, the wave goes back or whatever. You see, I forget whatever it's called. Speaker 0
See who's swimming naked? Speaker 2
See who's swimming naked, essentially. Yeah. You're really starting to see that in every aspect of real estate, including mortgage notes for people who are buying loans that originated at three percent, borrower's eight months behind, and they're like, oh, I'm okay paying, you know, seventy cents on the dollar for this. And I'm like, great. You just bought basically five percent. You're making five percent with a borrower who pays once every three months compared to I could have had that thing in a CD at five percent, and it's just because they don't understand the numbers. Speaker 0
And it's tough to modify a three percent loan. Right? Yep. Not a lot of wiggle room there. Awesome. That was really good. So I'm just gonna, hit on a couple of few points you all you both made, and then, you can talk more about what you have going on today and how that can benefit the listener before we get out of here. Does that sound good? Speaker 2
Sounds good. Speaker 0
Couple things I think were interesting is that, you know, several of the things you you both highlighted can really be seen as pros or cons. So, you know, like, the low barrier to entry, that can be good. That can be bad. Right? We talked about that. I'm not gonna beat it to death. But, but also the regulations. I mean, that that can keep people out, which can be hard for the the new note investor. They don't know if they need to be licensed in a particular state. Do I have to use a loan servicer? Like, there's a lot of, like, red tape that's scary. But to Chris's point, that keeps out the riffraff a little bit. So, and another point, I think you both you touched Mark mentioned this a couple times. You're not dealing with the emotional attachment of the borrower. But to Chris's point, that emotional attachment means you can work with the borrower potentially and create a loan modification and then sell that loan for a greater value if you're not exiting through the property. So it could be good. It could be bad. Right? It it kinda highlights the the upside and strengths of of both land investing and mortgage note investing. I'll give you each thirty seconds, and then we'll talk about after that, we'll talk about what you have going on today. Mark, final thoughts, land investing versus mortgage note investing. Alright. Yeah. So I gave you some extra time. I'll give you sixty seconds, Chris. Go ahead. Speaker 2
Yeah. At the end of the day, we're both the bank. It's really we're both the bank. No. We both don't have debt. We are the debt. We're both building cash flow businesses that are building wealth over time. It's not a get rich quick scheme. You're building those monthly payments. Now it really boils down to what's your ego. You wanna show people a piece of dirt, or do you wanna show them this beautiful fifteen million dollar property that I have in Miami that has, you know, basically, the swimming pool, a tub made of one piece of stone that was carved out? They could say, oh, I was affiliated with this. Now just like my back days when I was in construction management, oh, look at that twenty four story building. I built that. That building's always gonna be there. That house is always gonna be there. So there's no right or wrong answer. At the end of the day, we're really both doing the same thing. For me, it's more of an ego thing, honestly, of I like to look at the piece of property because I think that's sexier. And as a civil engineer, I do love dirt. I learned my degree was dirt and water as mud. So I was one of the thesis that we had to finish. But, again, both of them really are the same business plan. It's just slightly different asset class, and both of them can lead to long term wealth. Speaker 0
Absolutely. No. You're you're act absolutely correct. There are so many strengths to both, mortgage note investing and land investing. And for the listener, that's why I wanted to have these two guys on because you these you two are are two of the most successful people in these these two spaces or even this larger space of real estate investing. So, thank you both for coming on. Mark, why don't you tell the listener what you have going on today and how, how that can benefit them? Yeah. Yeah. I I'll come back if you have me on. What's your ideal client avatar? What does that person look like? And get that nice that nice sleep like Mark had last night. Alright. Chris, what do you have going on with your company and your fund, and, who's your ideal, client that you wanna serve? Speaker 2
Yeah. So we continue to, you know, raise money for our our fund, which, is open to both accredited and non accredited investors. One of the interesting things I'll mention about our fund that does make it unique is investors get a ten ninety nine dividend, not ten ninety nine interest. So good tax bonus there for them. And, you know, we structured it with a minimum investment. It's only five thousand dollars. And we really target focus you know, I'm a big acronyms person. Now GOATs, Henrys, which a GOAT is getting old and tired. So that landlord who's like, I don't wanna do this anymore is my wife says we go on vacation, we go to a water park. I want the lazy river. That's what most people want nowadays, especially with what's going on in the markets. We want the lazy river. Then the other is the Henrys, high earning, not rich yet. They don't qualify for accredited, but they have some money sitting on the sidelines, and they wanna invest in an institutional type product like mortgage notes, but they've been left out because you have to be accredited. You need a hundred thousand dollar minimum, which to anybody, even my you know, myself, you, Mark, hundred thousand dollars to anyone's a lot of money to give somebody, you know, the first time, you know, as you're trying to start investing. So we want to really focus on that individual. And a lot of my team are millennials who, you know, are trying to buy a home or just trying to get passive income because four zero one k, you know, that forty forty forty rule that I like to say is forty hours a week for forty years for forty percent of your income is not gonna cut it. And people have to invest and look at passive income as a means to allow the experts to work with them to let you live the lifestyle you want. And the one thing that I know Mark is a big proponent of is one thing nobody can buy, and that is time. We can't buy more time. So you gotta take advantage of all your time that you have. Speaker 0
So good. Man. Absolutely. I Speaker 2
will release the licensing rights for the small fee of Speaker 0
Of, Mark our Mark Mark's Otter already has Exactly. I will. That's right. I love it. Speaker 2
I I actually have I I I joke because I actually have a, you know, most people would joke because it's like, oh, a timeshare. Why'd you buy? I have a timeshare that, we used a lot, and it's actually done very well for us. And we're, like, we don't have much time to use it anymore. So I look to sell it, and it's on an island. And, basically, I told the person, like, hey. I'll seller finance this thing. And all of a sudden, you say seller finance to that? You know, you get four weeks out a year and stuff, so you get a month. And all of a sudden, people are like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, because they don't have to come up with that large payment. You seller finance that thing to them, and most people, again, don't understand or have done seller finance. And they're like, oh, the amount of people who have inquired now that I put when I said seller finance has gone from one to probably fifth fifteen x. Speaker 0
So many creative things you can do in this in this space, and it's fantastic. Chris, did you mention where people, can find you online or how they can contact you? Speaker 2
Yeah. They can go to our website, seven e investments dot com. That's the number seven, letter e, like behind me, if people are watching on video, investments dot com. Speaker 0
Mark, I think you mentioned your website. Any any other, contact info you wanna plug? Fantastic. Chris, Mark, this has been really, really fun. I've enjoyed it. Hopefully, you did as well, and I know the listener will as well. This has been really, really good. Like we said, there's pros and cons to everything. It really depends on your situation. The one thing I'll say is just because there is a low barrier to entry in in any particular asset class or investment strategy doesn't mean you should just jump in with, you know, head first. You know, talk to Chris, talk to Mark, talk to other experts in these spaces, understand what you're getting into. But, absolutely, both of these these investment strategies can take you eventually in the long term from adversity to abundance. And speaking of that, check out our website, adversity to abundance, the number two, adversity to abundance dot com. And like Chris said, we can't make any more time, and we appreciate you spending your your time with us because that is your most valuable resource. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us on from adversity to abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire. Speaker 0
Hey, everyone. This is Jamie Bateman. Real quickly, I wanted to share with you something, that's been pivotal in the growth and success of my businesses, and that is my partnership with Haven Financial Services. I've been working with Haven for over a year now. Christine Valdez was on episode seventy of this podcast. So go check that out if you wanna hear her story. It was a fantastic personal story for sure. But Haven has been awesome. They provide me with monthly reports that are super clear and discernible, and it that provides me with clarity and focus so that I can do what I do best, which is running my businesses, not preparing financial reports. Again, if you're in the market for a top notch financial service company, or if you just wanna check one out, go to w w w dot jamie bateman slash haven and check out Haven Financial Services. Again, that's jamie bateman slash haven. Can't recommend them enough. Christine and her team have been fantastic. So I definitely recommend you check out Haven Financial Services at w w w dot jamie bateman forward slash haven. Let's get back to the show. 
