Uncover the unexpected truth about former lacrosse player turned entrepreneur, Jake Kovalcik. From dark times to strategic business growth, his journey is as surprising as it is inspiring. But what's the untold secret that led to his resilience and success? Stay tuned to find out.
My special guest is Jake Kovalcik.
Meet Jake Kovalcik, a former lacrosse standout from Gettysburg College, whose journey from the field to the boardroom is nothing short of inspiring. Jake's story is one of resilience, as he shares his experiences of overcoming personal challenges, including navigating the complexities of a divorce. With a successful career in the corporate world and three entrepreneurial ventures under his belt, Jake's latest endeavor, Top Star Athletic Club, is revolutionizing the world of NIL for college athletes. His strategic approach to entrepreneurship and his personal transition from athlete to business owner offer valuable lessons in building self-confidence and achieving success in the face of adversity. Get ready to be inspired by Jake's story of strategic improvisation and impactful business growth.
“I would say that one of my biggest failures was probably not believing in myself.”
“I probably would have made a lot of different decisions if I had listened to it. But at the same time, it's like, we get put on this path for a reason, right? Everything. I sort of believe that all the things that have happened in the past that have happened to get us to this point.” - Jake Kovalcik
In this episode, you will learn about:
- Mastering the art of overcoming adversity through entrepreneurship.
- Unleashing the power of strategic improvisation in business.
- Navigating the transition from athlete to entrepreneur with confidence.
- Getting out of your own way
- Crafting a game plan for building a successful NIL business.
- Embracing the importance of self-confidence in startup success.
Book and Resources
Everything I Know About Business I Learned from the Grateful Dead
Let My People Go Surfing
Connect with Jake Kovalcik
WEBSITE: https://topstarac.com/
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakekovalcik/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/topstarac/
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/bonefishjake/
https://www.instagram.com/topstarac/
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/jake.kovalcik.37
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Speaker 0
This episode is about so much, so many important things. The biggest takeaway I had, from this interview with my friend, Jake Kovalchick, we went to Gettysburg together and played lacrosse together. Biggest takeaway was about getting out of your own way. Jake shares his story of how many mistakes he made and very dark times he went through, specifically when he went through a divorce, and, and dealing with taking ownership of his own decisions and taking full accountability. But but also always wanting to be perfect and his his he calls it OCD, you know, the drive for perfectionism and balancing that with taking action and getting out of your own way. He's, been in the corporate world. He's also started three different companies. And his latest venture, which is really taking off, is, focused on college athletes and the whole world of NIL. This is a very relatable episode. He gets a little emotional in the middle of it. A lot of takeaways for the entrepreneur and founder. A lot of takeaways for the former athlete, and that whole identity crisis that a lot of us have gone through when all of a sudden your career is over, and now what? And so there's something in this episode for everyone. It's, it's it's very, very powerful. You're gonna love it. Speaker 1
Welcome to from adversity to abundance, the go to podcast for real estate entrepreneurs seeking not just to thrive, but to conquer with resilience and mental sharpness. Each week, join us as we dive into the compelling world of real estate through the lens of mental fitness, where challenges transform into opportunities. Get ready to transform your mindset and expand your understanding of what it takes to succeed in real estate. Let's explore these stories of triumph and resilience together. Speaker 0
Welcome everybody to another episode of the from friend of mine. We played lacrosse together at Gettysburg College. I'm sure we're gonna reminisce a little bit. Jake, how are you doing today? Speaker 2
I'm doing great, Jamie. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it, man. Speaker 0
Absolutely. I know we're gonna dive into what you're up to today. I know you're a cofounder of Top Star Athletic Club. Tell us tell us a little bit about that before we jump into your backstory. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Sure. So Topstar basically exists to make NIL work better. We're trying to take the sort of is it the whole system is in chaos. We're trying to put standards around it and really make it better for student athletes, better for brands, better for the future. And we're really trying to take what is concentrated at the top of NIL and bring it down to actually, you know, more kids like you and I that don't necessarily have that huge following, aren't playing a, quite frankly, revenue generating sport, and really trying to just help spread the NIL wealth down. And then at the same time, give these kids something that I really needed when I graduated, which was some experience with work because as you know, you know, we were one of the best teams in the nation. So we didn't have a whole lot of time for internships or jobs or things like that. So you really kinda go into the professional world a little bit unequipped. So we're trying to help kids in that regard as well. So, like, better for student athletes, better for brands, better for the future. Speaker 0
I love it. So for the listener who's unfamiliar with NIL, can you just define that for us? Speaker 2
Yeah. So, in twenty twenty one, the NCAA finally allowed student athletes to be who they are. Right? They can monetize themselves. So NIL stands for name, image, and likeness. Speaker 0
Got it. Awesome. And I know and we're gonna get into some of this, but you've you've started a few businesses along the way. Is that right? Speaker 2
Yeah. This is, I guess, the the third business that I've started officially. This is the first one that I've sort of gone out on my own with and done everything sort of soup to nuts, and then brought a cofounder. And, usually, it's been, like, me and a cofounder move things forward, and then we raise capital and and do things like that. But this was the first one that I had to file my own taxes with, which, was interesting. Yeah. At least No. Speaker 0
That's that's really good because our our listeners, you know, are largely entrepreneurs and budding entrepreneurs, so we'll let's jump back. So as I mentioned, you and I played lacrosse together. You were, one of the best goalies in the country, and, and we had as you said, we had a a very good team at Gettysburg. Lot of lot of great memories, and and, you know, I don't think the listener wants us to just reminisce about every goal I scored and every save you made. But, Speaker 2
They should. We'll do that. They really should. Speaker 0
They really should. They're missing out. I agree. But let's talk about college and and kind of I know we're gonna get into some, you know, some difficult topics, especially, pertaining to emotional health and mental health, which which I think is really relevant. Unfortunately, very relevant in today's world. But what was your, what was your college life like? Talk about that for us. Speaker 2
Oh, jeez. So college life was, as I've learned, pretty similar to most other student athletes. You know, in season, three a days, out of season, two a days, so not a whole lot of time for for much else from, like, a, I guess, professional development perspective, from a social life perspective. I mean, we we had training rules. We had all these things that we had to to adhere to. We had practices, like I said, six AM practice after, classes and then, you know, study hall at night. So I I don't know that I I mean, I I thought it was sort of typical for college students, but exploring with my daughters is very not typical. So, it it was pretty much I I was at school to play lacrosse. You know? Yeah. Like, the grades were secondary. It was just sort Speaker 0
No. And I can I can fully relate? It was I mean, I transferred in. I went to Johns Hopkins, for a year and a half. And the reason I bring that up is you you might think, oh, Hopkins lacrosse, that that's obviously way more demanding than, you know, some division three school. They were both extremely demanding. There's just there wasn't a whole lot else we could have done time wise at Gettysburg. I mean, it was for lacrosse. It it that's why I was there as well. I mean, it was it was number one. And so it was not a secondary thing. It was it was everything. And you and I were talking before we hit record about how your identity, for better or for worse, gets wrapped up in in in being a lacrosse players. Talk talk about that a little bit. Speaker 2
Yeah. That you know, like, we we actually talked about that, and I'm glad you brought it up because that was one of the things that I I found to be the most challenging after graduating. It was like and I I I put a lot of this deliberately into top star, and I'll talk about that later. But, like, that loss of team, you know, that loss of just, like, this this group of people that, like, you go to war with. And then just Absolutely. Sudden, it just turns off. I mean, it's like, you know, for you for you, it was, you know, a lot of the same way as it was for me. Right? Like, we went up to Rochester. We played Nazareth. You lost to Nazareth, and it's like you came back home, and now what? You know? Like, what you know? And then September rolls around or, you know, late August rolls around, and you're not going back to school, and you're not playing lacrosse again. And that transition for me was particularly difficult because I everything I did was was for lacrosse. Everything I did was was as an as an athlete to be competitive, to be the best that I possibly could, and I I focused so much of my energy on that. Once that was over, I mean, I I was completely lost. And I'm it wasn't for, like, a short amount of time either. I mean, it was a solid decade that I just didn't know what to do with myself. Speaker 0
Yeah. Absolutely. And, again, I I'm not gonna make the episode about me, but I I just can relate so much. It was I I was sharing actually last night with my wife that I joined in the the military after eventually after college, and I and I got deployed, was on a ten man team overseas in Iraq and, you know, literally went to war with with these guys. And I feel a closer bond to my lacrosse teammates than I do to those guys for whatever reason. I don't know if it's because we put four years of blood, sweat, and tears into this, and we had a very defined goal of a national championship. Speaker 0
And my entire background was was becoming, you know, meant you know, it was all about lacrosse. Right? Yeah. Whereas the military thing for me was like, oh, like, it it was to serve that need that you just mentioned is to you plugged into a team and and to be a part of something bigger than myself. So, absolutely, there's a huge void, and I felt that hundred percent like you did. So so talk about that just from an emotional standpoint. What what did that look like that decade after Speaker 2
after college? I mean, to to be totally truthful, it's like, I I'm still sort of looking for it because one thing you've really learned, it's like, you know, when when you are playing as high level of sport as we played and we were, you know, we were the best team in the nation. You know, my three years of starting there, there weren't many times that we fell out of that number one spot or number two spot. Like, we were always there. Mhmm. When you have this group of guys around you that are all laser focused on the same goal and everybody's moving in the same direction, you have one thing to your point. You're trying to get to that national championship. It just doesn't exist in corporate America. Like, it really doesn't. It's like the team concept is has been sort of co opted by corporate America, and they aren't teams. Call them teams because I just don't think saying a group of people generally pointing in the same direction. If you
Speaker 0
say co opted, I'll say bastardized.
Speaker 2
Sure. We can say we can say bad words. Bastardized by corporate America. I mean, honestly, like, it just to say the word team is easier than to say, like I said, like, you know, it's basically a group of people generally going in the same direction, like a flock of geese. And that's sort of the way I'm describing it because Sure. That's what it is. It's like, you've got everybody. They're kind of in a triangle. They're kinda going the same direction. Then there's, like, four geese over here, and they're like, wait. Why are they going west? You know?
Speaker 2
it's like that's like the guy in the, you know, in the back of the room that's sitting there trying not to be noticed. And then there's, you know, this other person who's, like, trying to figure out how they can take your job or whatever. It's just not all aligned. That's the same. You and I've talked to lots of student athletes, like former NFL guys, former NBA guys, like, across the spectrum, MLB guys, and they all say the same thing. It's like that loss of team is like it Yeah. Hurts. Like, it physically hurts. So trying to find that in corporate America, I mean, it it it is it is difficult because it just doesn't exist because everybody you know, even on a cross field, like, everybody wants to score goals. Everybody wants to strip people. Everybody wants to win a face off, but everybody also wants to win. You are there to win. It it it is not the same in corporate America. Like, some people just don't want to lose their job, and some people are just like, I'm gonna do exactly what the guy before me did so I could get my three percent raise and
Speaker 0
go back and Right.
Speaker 2
You know, home and do whatever.
Speaker 0
So did you go in did you get a job after school? Did you start a business right away? What did that look like?
Speaker 2
I didn't know what to do. I I went home and I was like, you know, this this was what this was, like, the biggest shock in my life because, you know, I was two time all American goalie at Gettysburg. We were a team captain, and I'm like, who is not gonna wanna hire me? I mean, honestly, like, I have all these intangibles that I know businesses want. Who's not gonna hire me? Short answer, pretty much everybody because I had no experience. You know? It's like you come out of college and, like Right. You're charged with, you know, as a goalie especially. Right? As a goalie, you are the heart of the team. Like, everything in the defense resonates from you. It goes out.
Speaker 0
You're the you're the quarterback of the defense at such a critical position for sure.
Speaker 2
The only time that you can actually not pay attention is when the ball is with you attack folks down on the other end. And, like, then it's like, okay. Cool. But, like, what's coming back up at? But it's like you you just I it's it it it's
Speaker 0
Yeah. So okay. So so you had trouble getting a job, it sounds like.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh, right. Yep. Yeah. I I I I didn't know what to do. I had no idea what to do. And like I said, like, no one wanted to hire me.
Speaker 2
I I didn't have any idea, so I just sort of started doing, like, landscaping. Like, that's what I did. And I did landscaping for a year, and then I finally got a corporate job, and then I got another corporate job. And then I did the corporate thing for, I don't know, almost a decade ago, more than maybe fifteen years until I ran into my first startup. And at that point, it was, two thousand three, and I had no idea what a startup was. They weren't cool yet. They're small companies. Yeah. They're just like, I we're a company of twelve people. We do pretty good job of making payroll sometimes. Yeah.
Speaker 2
CEO has to go into her own bank account to pay you, which happened on more than one occasion.
Speaker 2
And, you know, that that was, like, the biggest learning experience for me because it's the first time that somebody actually gave me the reins to be like Mhmm. You have to do more. Like, you can't just like, now you're not just doing media. You're not just doing
Speaker 0
whatever you're doing.
Speaker 2
to do all these things. And, oh, by the way, we're gonna need you to do all these things so that you're not just okay at them. Like, you're pretty good at them. So getting exposed to that, I guess, you know, you know, early enough in my career really sort of changed the trajectory of my life because all of a sudden, it's like I found this path where, like, I I never fit in boxes. Like, as a goalie, you Mhmm. Definitely
Speaker 0
Yeah. Every goalie has a a few screws loose and Yeah. Yeah. Like I say that as a compliment. I mean, it's Yeah.
Speaker 2
kick ass one. Thank you.
Speaker 0
Yeah. It's, yeah. For sure.
Speaker 2
Just home. You know? Like and I I mean, me in particular. Right? Like, I was all over the field. I was not a I was not a stationary goalie.
Speaker 2
I I You were a muddle. Yeah. I had the unfortunate like, we're fortunate depending on your perspective. Luck of seeing Matty Palem play for Syracuse and watching him run all over the place. I was like, I wanna be like that.
Speaker 0
I wanna be him. Yep.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, you know, I'm running. I'm scoring goals. I'm throwing assists. I'm throwing behind the back passes as a goalie. And
Speaker 0
Yeah. You're you're you're a very good athlete. You know? That that you were very mobile. But yeah. And so yeah. Go ahead.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I I it's it's, you know, like, I just learned that you can do these other things as a net net there. And then so it sort of changed trajectory trajectory of my life, and then I started looking for jobs that would give me those opportunities.
Speaker 0
Gotcha. So when the previous ten to fifteen years in a corporate setting, what what industry was that in? What what did that look like? Oh, gosh.
Speaker 2
Worked for Anheuser Busch for a while. Worked for, Under Armour for a spell, and then most recently, worked for Allstate for about five years where we were building the largest telematics database, which is risk data driving risk data.
Speaker 0
Gotcha. So lots of different difficult. Yeah. No. I'm like you. I bounced around a little bit. I'll I'll be honest. I I wasn't sure what you know, and worked for a title company and then a mortgage company, then I joined the military and just trying to obviously make make some money, have a paycheck, but also figure out my purpose. Right? And, the the direction I call it calling, purpose, whatever you wanna call it, but just what what am I supposed to be doing? So Yeah. You know? And and I think nowadays, it's it's way more common to to people change jobs all the time. Yeah. So okay. Let what did the, I guess, your personal life look like? I know you went through some personal challenges Yep. During that fifteen year span, we'll call it. What what talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, went through a divorce, which which is never easy for anybody, especially when there's kids involved. Had to come to terms with a lot of things. You know? Like, it it it if it's never easy. It it's it's divorce is terrible. The the thing that I think I took most from that entire experience and, really, it's I guess it's, like, something I learned on the field, which is odd, and I really thought about it. But really, like, owning everything. You know? Being I love that. Accountable to every single mistake I made. And understand. Not trying to blame somebody else for the decisions I made, not not, like, pointing fingers because at the end of the day, like, it was nobody's fault but mine. You know? Like, I made the bad choices. I made the bad decisions. I made it was me. You know? Like, I reacted to the problem the way I reacted to it and trying to blame on somebody else for that. Even my ex wife is stupid. Like, it wasn't her fault. It was the way I did it. So, you know, being Yeah. Absolutely brutally accountable to myself and to to my kids, you know, was the thing that ultimately kind of helped me get through that because it it it is not an easy path. I I I have yet to find anybody who, like, has a wonderful experience going through your divorce. Yeah.
Speaker 2
But, you know yeah. So it's difficult, man. You know? Like, there's
Speaker 0
For sure. No. I thank thank you for sharing. I know it's not an easy easy topic to to talk about. The ownership piece is something that comes up over and over and over on our show. Much easier for me to sit here and talk about than for me to actually do. So I'm not sitting here judging anybody for not taking. But it's, you're absolutely right. That that's there's so much power in that, though. It it's not easy to do, but there's so much power in taking ownership and and taking accountability for your own decisions. And it sounds like I'm sure there were things that went wrong in your life that weren't a result of of your choices directly. Right? Speaker 0
But it sounds like maybe some problems were there, and then you would make make decisions, and then you would compound the problem. Yes. Again, not I don't I'm just I mean, that applies to to I mean everybody. Right? Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, look. I'm an open book when it comes to this. I mean, obviously, like, I'm not gonna get into very nitty details of things. Speaker 2
When it comes to, like, my personal accountability to things, when it comes to, like, you know, how I handled the things that I handled, like, yeah, I made mistakes. Like, I made a lot of them. I mean, look. There there was there was, like, a two year span. I couldn't even look in a mirror and then look at myself because I just couldn't get out of my own way. I couldn't figure it out. And then, you know, I I mean, you probably know who he is, Jocko Willink. You know who that guy is? Speaker 0
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So Extreme Ownership is is the his one book. Speaker 2
Yeah. I I have you know? Yeah. So, I I happened to hear good. Yeah. Right? And maybe I didn't get emotional talking about it. I was it was bad. And Yeah. You know, I'm like, I hear this this, you know, good, and it's like, you know, bay basically, the takeaway is like, you know, if if if you can get breath into your lungs, you can still move and, like, you can still keep going forward. And and I finally like, whatever whatever that tapped into, it's like it was this dark hole that I was in. And, like, for the first time in a long time, like, I finally saw a crack of light. Mhmm. And I was like, oh, goddamn. Like, I can get out of this. Speaker 2
it it it sure didn't happen overnight. Yeah. But, yeah, it was like Right. Oh my god. Like, there there is a chance, man. And so I I just became ruthlessly, like, ruthlessly, you know, accountable to everything. Mhmm. And I I just stopped with, quite frankly, with the BS and just was like, okay. I I it's enough. And so it was just it's just this little thing. It seems so insignificant, but, like, just word is, like, good. Good. You know? Yeah. Good. Like Speaker 2
still got fighting you. Speaker 0
Yeah. So and and there was there were still you were hearing that there was good in you. Right? And so it sounds like that sliver of light provided hope Yeah. That you didn't have before. No. I I appreciate you sharing that. So was this, like, at what point in your life was that two year period that we're talking about? Speaker 2
Oh, god. That was during the divorce. Yeah. I mean, it was a complete disaster. Speaker 2
Yeah. It it's it's you know, I get I can kind of, like, laugh about it now because it it it it's like I've I've come to terms with it. Right? I've come to terms with the states. I've come to terms with the things I made I did wrong. Like, I I did them. Like, oh my gosh. And then, like, it's silly. Speaker 0
So Well and I'll just and then the point is not to pick you apart and put you down and make sure you live it's just you know, unfortunately, divorce is is is pretty common, and it's it's a relatable thing for a lot of people. And, you know, so if if your message of hope can get to the person who's in that storm right Speaker 2
now, that's the goal of the podcast. Speaker 0
Because You know? That's that's what we're trying to do. Speaker 2
I I hope so. Like, honestly, like, I I've I've offered up to talk to a bunch of different people in my life that have gone through it because quite frankly, I had nobody. Like, I literally had no one I could talk to. And, like, you know, you're married. Right? So you understand your wife's friends and family become your friends and family. And when fractures, it destroys your world. I mean, it just utterly shatters your world, and you don't know like, for me in particular, like, I I had no idea where to go. I had no idea what to do, and I broke. You know? And then Sure. Over the course of that two years trying to, like, figure out how do I do anything, you know, and and and kinda fix that. Right. I didn't have anybody. So, you know, like, there's been a few people in my life where I'm like, listen, man. Like, I understand this. You know? I've made mistakes. Like, trust me when I tell you I've made all these mistakes. Mhmm. It's terrible. It sucks to go through. But just keep going. Just Yeah. Not to make Speaker 0
just The same mistakes. Speaker 2
Try not to make it again. You know? It it you're gonna make them. It's just you're going to. Speaker 0
Absolutely. And, again, yeah, it's it's and we're all that's part of the show. We're we're we're all guaranteed to go through you're gonna go through additional adversity. I hope you never go through anything like that again. But Me too. I am as well. Right? We're all it's it's gonna happen. I mean and so if we can it sounds like, you know, just being able to just like like you're doing now, reach out to people who may be in a similar situation, just, you know, that element of community is is so important. Speaker 2
It's so important. Speaker 0
On my side, I think I think my, I think my siblings like my wife more than they like me, so I really I'm kinda screwed there. But Speaker 2
Okay. My kid a hundred percent like my but Michelle more than me, man. I I get it. Speaker 0
But, let's fast forward. So okay. So, I'm sure you have, you know, the the accountability piece is huge, and I think that probably you've been hope applying that through the rest of your life. So first startup, what did that first startup look like for you, and and let's take it from there. Speaker 2
Oh, gosh. The first one was we we were so far ahead of our time. It was crazy. We were trying to do it was me and, you know, one of my buddies actually that I worked with at at Allstate who brought me in there to help him. We're trying to build this Wi Fi advertising network, and we were so far ahead of the curve. Nobody even knew what to do with it. So we eventually, you know, had to shut that down. But, you know, now it's super commonplace where there's companies called Intersection that have, you know, now it's super commonplace where there's companies called Intersection that have, you know, this Wi Fi product. There's Wi Fi in airports, what we were trying to do. We're focused monthly on, like, stadiums and bars and delivering content to there for, you know, in exchange for advertising. But, we were so far ahead of the curve. Like, people couldn't even wrap their head what we were doing. Speaker 0
Gotcha. Interesting. That one, Speaker 2
is old. The next one that that I personally was involved in was called Sports Locker. We were this sort of mix between season long fantasy and daily fantasy. Mhmm. We had the very we we had a great product. There's market need for this product. It doesn't exist because, like, we were sort of doing fan engagement on, you know, in the in the venue and off the venue and on the couch. So, like, we're bringing everybody together. And Mhmm. We had the really unfortunate, luck, if you will, of having gambling become legal while we were building that product out. Mhmm. So, effectively, what happens is, everything just dies. You know? Like, people are like, well, no. We're gonna go with DraftKings and FanDuel now, and that that was so that was the end of that one. And, unfortunately, like, it's just dead. So Yeah. That that was that that was a tough one because we really had we had buy in from, like, some of the big sports organizations. We had buy in from advertisers, and we had buy in from other partners. And just as soon as it all happened, like, that was it. It was just done. So Speaker 0
Interesting. Yeah. I love to pick your brain after that because I yeah. I'll I'll dabble in that stuff a little bit, and, it it's fun. I mean, just the the season long stuff versus DFS, you know, and and and I know they they do have some, other kind of hybrid, formats out there like you're talking about. So, yeah, both of those ideas, in hindsight, were were genius. Right? But it sounds like the timing and some external circumstances Speaker 0
That are out of your control. Is a thing. Right? Yeah. Is a thing. So, with those two ventures, how much approximately, like, how much time and how much Okay. Capital, if you don't mind, like, just you know, I I know that's a negative approach, but most businesses fail. So Yeah. I think, you know, on this show, I don't present entrepreneurship like it's this rainbows and butterflies. Yeah. Don't Don't Speaker 2
do it. Tell everybody. Absolutely. Unless you you are a glut for punishment or you happen to have a really rich father, uncle, family member that loves backstop. Money and light it on fire, don't do it. Speaker 0
Don't do it. Terrible. I I it's just so funny you say that because it's it's it's tough, man. And it's it's we're gonna get into, you know, just the emotional drain. I mean, it's it's tough. And if you have a family, I mean, that that can that spreads. You know? It's a it's not like having a job, nine to five job and going home. So what was the toll on you, like, just for looking at those two startups? Speaker 2
The first one wasn't as wasn't terrible because, you know, like, we were sort of building it on the side. Like, the startup that I was actually working for at that point was in the process of being sold for, I think, the first time. I don't know if it was a first time, I guess. So we we didn't really like, everyone was kind of just you know, we're doing it on the side. So the first one wasn't terrible. We we didn't we didn't raise any capital. We definitely spent a lot of capital. I mean, I spent I don't know. If I spent twenty grand total, it was a lot. Gotcha. And just trying to, like, put together partnerships and things like that and have Sure. You ever. It wasn't terrible. That one we up relatively unscathed. Sports locker, not so much. Raised some money for that. Lost it all. Mhmm. You know? Like, lost everything. Lost my my money. Lost my investors' money. Speaker 2
It it it sucks. I mean, the accountability on that one is awful. It still hurts because Mhmm. People trust you. They bind to you, and they're they're believing you. So having that personal accountability, it it it hurts. And then when you can't even, like, head like, get get them back to even and it's just gone, I I don't know how to do it. I mean, it it it it's still terrible. So Speaker 0
Looking at those two those two startups, and I know they're very different models, and what were one or two lessons learned from that as far as you know, it could be about partnerships, partnering with Speaker 0
wrong people, or or raising capital. Any lessons learned that you would have now apply? Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two big ones, actually. Right off the top of my head, I I know these because I I applied them to Topstar. First things first, if you're going to be in the sports industry Speaker 2
Find a business savvy former pro at some, you know, across a major sport that has a has a recognizable name. You absolutely need champions at the professional level to get you to those next level conversations. It's an absolute must. Second thing is, you know, at least for us, I was determined to build a business first. So I took a business first approach as opposed to a tech first approach, because the last thing that I wanted to do was put a whole bunch of money into technology and then get stuck in a situation like I got stuck in last time where we had this technology, but we didn't have the business fully baked. And we thought we'd be business fully big because we had these emerging partnerships, which, like I've mentioned with the FanDuel and DraftKings thing, just fell apart. So what I wanted to do this time was not do that. So Mhmm. We've run this business. I mean, yeah, obviously, we use tech, but Speaker 0
we we have not For sure. Speaker 2
Any custom anything yet whatsoever. I went out and I was was was just recklessly going after, a, breaking our model, and, b, making sure that we had a business before I I went out and spoke to a single investor about this at all. I I've Yeah. I've I've you know, like, I have, like, my own little startup incubator, if you will, that, like, I I stick ideas into, and then I play around with them, and I I try to, you know, I I build the models and whatever. Most of them die because I break. I've tried to break Topstar over and over and over again, like, because if if I can break it, somebody else can break it. Again, back to the accountability thing. It's like, I don't wanna go talk to people about something that I don't have confidence in, something that I won't put my name on. So if I break it, that's it. You know? I I I've tried to break Topstar over and over again because if I do break it, like, basically, I have, you know, my my model now after all this, you know, OCD stuff is now, you know, fail fast, fix faster. Right? So if I break it now, you know, it's little things that break. It's not the business model that breaks. It's like, oh, shoot. We have to pivot from doing this to this, and we just do it. So it's not the end of the world. But Speaker 0
Yeah. Those were the two Speaker 2
biggest things that I took away from it. Speaker 0
Yeah. That's good. And, when you say business first, just to drill down a little bit, and I because I I I think I have some similar experience. But, essentially, you're you're saying that the actual fundamentals of the business and and also making sure that the demand is actually there Speaker 0
For this product or service versus building out some massive in infrastructure and then build it and they will come. Because, honestly, I've I've made this this mistake myself, and we're we have a loan servicing company, and it's doing really it's doing well now. But the mistake we made was just we got all these licenses, and we did all this work up front and and all this capital and, you know, and and it's like and then it was crickets. And it's like, we didn't do any market testing. We didn't know, you know, if people would actually show up. Right? And so I think we had the cart before the horse there. So you're saying market testing, make you know, talking to potential clients or or making sure that the the business model is sound before you go and and and, you know, make it more efficient or or add bells and whistles to it. Right? Speaker 2
Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. You know, like, we we have the unfortunate or fortunate now, luxury or luck depending on how you look at it, of working in a two sided marketplace. Right? So we're building a team of student athletes, and then we are also going out to get brands. So we have this marketplace where it's like a chicken or the egg type thing. Like, how do you get the brands if you don't have the student athletes? And if you don't have any way to sort of incentivize the student athletes to stay on the team, like, how are you gonna get student athletes? So that was one of the biggest questions that we had going into it. It was like, okay. Like, can we build this marketplace? Like, is it even will people actually buy into what we're doing? So before we did anything, I mean, I went I must I've I've talked to fifty plus brands and agencies, you know, dozens, hundreds of people and parents and and athletes and every single possible person that I could speak to before we made a call to understand, like, if is the way that we're trying to do this, does it provide value? Now, obviously, like, I think a whole bunch of what I experienced and what you experienced as as student athletes and put it into Speaker 2
because that from a credibility standpoint when you're talking to parents is huge. But, you know, just my my work at Anheuser Busch, right, my understanding of how important local media is and how the local side really drives revenue or who even to talk to on the local side from that perspective. Or my sec my first real start up with, you know, the one out of Georgia, Prime Point Media that I mentioned, where it was twelve people that I went to in two thousand. We aggregated all these little tiny things that in individually were relatively insignificant. But when you network them together and have this massive sort of network effect, it became magical. So all the things that I've learned over the course of my career coupled with, like, you know, my own experience with, you know, this kid that I know that went to Stanford that, you know, got drafted by the reds. Like, talking to him, I'm like, how do you not have any NAL deals? This makes no sense to me. It's like Mhmm. You're going to the pros. You have a three seven five GPA from Stanford, and no one's talking to you. Or even, like, with my own kids, like, what would I need to see as a parent to come out and and to trust somebody, like, with my kid? Because that's what you're do talking to parents. And you're like, hey. Like, I know you don't know me, and I know we came in on a good reference, but it's still my kid. So Sure. We had dozens of these conversations and and spoke to dozens of brands and, like, I mean, literally, like, fifty brands, fifty pound, hundred pound. I don't even know anymore. Speaker 2
So many brands. So many brands. Speaker 2
That we finally honed in on the fact that, okay, the way we're doing this actually does make sense. And then you take a look at the NIL name image likeness market in general. And it's like they it's complete chaos. You know? Like, Billy Carter. I don't know if you know Billy. Billy is in, yeah, he's on the ground. Speaker 0
LinkedIn. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2
Mhmm. Very big name in NIL. He hates when you say the Wild West. He's like, oh my god. So I'm not gonna say Wild West. Speaker 0
We won't say Wild West, Billy. Speaker 2
It's a chaos, Bill. So it's still complete chaos. There's no product. There's no standards. Like, for the NCAA just continues to just, like, look ridiculous in the way they're managing this whole thing. Mhmm. And I'm like, as a brand, as a guy That Speaker 0
smells like opportunity to me. Right? That's an opportunity. Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. As a guy that that understand that knows what brands want and need and knows how they buy and knows what they need to see. I'm like Mhmm. You're just not providing it. It just doesn't exist. So that's how, like, the entirety of, like, top star comes together. Right? We take I Speaker 2
Up and shake it in and put it in and try to break things and throw things out and bring things back in. And, Yeah. Here we are. One of the top later, actually. Crazy. Speaker 0
How many? Too many? Two two years? Gotcha. Speaker 0
Too too many? No. I'm kidding. Sometimes. Yeah. It takes take a lot takes a lot of work. I mean, it's and a lot of time to to build something something great. And but what I love about what you're saying is, yes, you are relying on your experience and your your own passion, but it's not only about that. I mean, I I love that that's a factor, but, one of the things that comes up on the show is, you know, some people say, oh, follow your follow your heart, follow your passion, and you never work a day in your life. That's great. And I hope that you enjoy what you're doing. Everyone you know? But if you're not out there, you're not right. Yeah. Certain things might be enjoyable. You should probably not do them. But you're out there listening. You know? You're you're listening to people and talking to people. Yes. And you're taking feedback from the marketplace in the industry as as because you wanna add value. That's what you were talking about. Yes. It's not just what does Jake wanna do all day? I love sports, so I'm gonna do something in sport. No. It's like, no. I understand this industry because I was a student athlete. I worked in, you know, similar in different industries in a similar way, taking that experience, but then going out and listening about what is the need. Right? That's the that's the thing that people miss sometimes. Like, that's why I think you're gonna be successful with this because you're actually listening many times over to where the need actually is. So, okay. So high level, what what is Top Star Athletic Club? And and I know you've touched on it, but Yeah. I I what is it exactly? Speaker 2
So Topstar takes a team approach. Right? We we look at the entire student athlete population much differently than anybody else. Our sort of standards are not predicated on the number of followers that kids have. We equally look at academics and athletics, and we only really focus on the top fifty, you know, large universities and liberal arts colleges. So per US News and World Report, that's like our quote, unquote bible. So any schools that fall into that hundred subset, those are the types of student athletes that we want on top star because first and foremost, like, these kids are killers. Like, from a athletics perspective, from an academic perspective, just take lacrosse. Alright? Like, which is what we know and kinda where we started. All the Ivy Leagues, like, I think there's four or five of the Ivies in the top twenty right now. Like Mhmm. At pretty much I don't there aren't many schools in the top twenty, from a lacrosse perspective that aren't in the top fifty from an academic perspective, which is crazy. It's insane. Like, that's that's our target. Right? Because we want these kids who are super well balanced, that are that have high integrity, that understand that the work that they're putting in on the field, like, means something. Right? Mhmm. And we also take a look you know, we have we have a GPA requirement that we have. We have social and digital integrity requirements. We have like, you have to represent yourself and your school with good character. Like, we are really trying to help these kids, like, you know, like, we act as a second set of coaches. So we're really trying to help these kids, like, say the path. Right? Show them that there is a sort of way that you can move forward with academics and athletics. We also don't necessarily focus on the revenue generating sports like football and basketball. So our niche doesn't really fall in there because quite frankly, like, when you're talking about that level of people, when you're talking about, like, the Bronnie James', you're talking about the Mannings, you're talking about the Sanders' of the world. Like, we can't compete. And I don't wanna compete there because there's plenty of people going after that, and and there's a great market there, and and they'll do just fine. But, again, back to, like, our experience. Right? This is where, like, we differ in that. The kids that we bring in, like, we sign them as employees. So they are all employees of pop star. So Okay. When they as they continue to meet our our standards, as they continue to go through our system, right, they get valuable work experience. So some of these kids now when they finally sort of spit out on the into professional world, will have three or five years of experience working for cops. They They can put that on their resume, and then they Speaker 0
can didn't have. Right? Yeah. So okay. Two things then. What's the where are you in the the sort of life cycle of Topstar? Like, did you sign your first client last week, or, you know, where are we with the the business itself? And then secondly, walk us through just high level sort of the the client, journey. So, yeah, if you if you could answer those two, that'd be great. Speaker 2
Yeah. So, we again, this is, like, one of those things that I was gonna talk about when we sort of went out of the out of out of, off script. Yeah. About me, like, just try and get out of my own way because, like, I am a Yeah. Talk about that. And, I I well, it's it's too late now. We did the other thing. No. I'm a We'll bring you back. No. It's fine. I'm a perfectionist. And I I just because of the nature of what goalies do, we live in this weird world where, like, fractions of seconds and fractions of of of of of inches is the difference between a save and and and and and a goal. So it's like you have to be obsessed with that razor sharp precision, and it makes you a perfectionist and makes you OCD. And you sort of apply everything in your world to that, and that doesn't work for start ups. So Speaker 2
Now this gets back to what you just asked me, which is tell us about the team. Right? Like, so we started interviewing folks well over a year ago at this point, and we formally sort of launched the team last August where we started finally like, where I I finally got out of my own way. Thanks huge part to my wife, Michelle. And just she was like, why aren't you doing this? Like, just do it. I'm like, well, I'm waiting to have have more. Like, why? You know? And the brands told me very clearly, like, what they needed. And I was like, I don't care. Like, I wanna, like, suck the air out of the room because that's just sort of the way, like, when I stepped on the field, I was like, yeah. You know what? Went to the wrong high school from the wrong state for lacrosse. Too bad. I'm here. Deal with me. You know? And that's kind of the way I looked at it with Topstar. I'm like, too bad we're here. Deal with us. Us. Except that that doesn't work because you don't always get what you want when you're in a when you're in a startup. And sometimes good is good enough. So we went out and started talking to kids. We signed the right amount of kids, and we started paying them last August. So as of right now, like, we're well, August, September, October, August, September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April. Eight was nine months into Mhmm. You know, paying the kids. So as soon as we got all the kids on board, then we started talking to the brands. And the brands came quickly because, basically, you know, what we would tell them is, like, you know, we have this process that we call authenticity as a service where we actually lay eyes on all these kids. Right? We we talk them. We interview them. And I mentioned it earlier, like, with the parents and kids and everything. We actually talk to them. We look at their social profiles. We make sure they fit us. Right? So we talk to them, and then we, like, you know, make sure that they understand what what it's all about. And then after we go through the process and after they do go through the application process, which is on our website, it's not easy. It's a little bit extensive. If that's people out that way too, we sign them. So when we put all that together with for the brands, which you need something simple to understand, they need, a single point of contact. They need guaranteed delivery, which doesn't exist in influencer marketing, by the way. It's really odd. And they also need to understand that these kid these guys are brand safe. You know? Like, that is a huge problem. Ad fraud and just, you know, half the Instagram accounts are fake right now, forty nine point two percent or something crazy. Wow. Like, you have no idea. And now throw AI into the mix. Like, all of a sudden, the world of influencers gets really weird. We take all that away for brands. So when we start talking about, you know, our brand safety guarantee and our authenticity as a service, they're like, oh, wait. Tell me more. So that's sort of like what the brand journey is. And since then Gotcha. We have done seven brand campaigns, I guess. We started in November, so we've had, you know, a cut one or two every month that we're talking to. We have got bunch that wanna do business with us. And then, you know, we have a couple brands out there that wanna do long term partnerships. And then we also have, you know, agencies from boutique to massive holding companies that are like, what you're doing is interesting. Tell me more. Mhmm. Speaker 2
So it's it's been since I again, since I was able to get out of my own way, it it's been fantastic, which is it's it's really difficult for me, like, because I am, like, Speaker 2
very large degree of perfectionist. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. And I and I think that I mean, everyone's situation is different, but you need to have high standards. Right? You you can't just, like, just whatever works because your business will be terrible. I mean, you've gotta be able to deliver on what you say you're gonna do. You gotta Speaker 0
Have attention to detail. You know? So leaning toward perfectionism is not necessarily a bad thing because you need high quality. Right? And but the flip side is you're never gonna get anything done, especially in the the startup world. And I'm talking to I'm not I'm talking to you. I'm talking to me. I'm talking to any entrepreneur out there. Speaker 0
It is just it's never I mean, they say perfect is the enemy of good. I've heard perfect is the enemy of progress, you know, because it's just never gonna be perfect. Right? Yeah. So when you say get out of your own way, is that really that's what you're talking about? Is you just you you didn't you were slow to start the company because you wanted all of the stars to be aligned. Is that what we're talking about? Speaker 2
Yeah. And that's exactly right. And and I recently sort of came across this book. What the heck's that guy's name? I forget his name. I'm sorry, Barry. I forget his last name. Barry, he's a PhD. He wrote this book. Everything I learned to know about business, I learned from the Grateful Dead, which seems completely ridiculous. But it it it it literally, like, it it's this phrase called strategic improvisation. And if you know anything about the dead, like, you understand, like, they weren't about their their releases. They were about the live show. The live shows were all about improvisation. They took that practice across their entire business. Speaker 0
Barry Barnes, PhD. Speaker 2
Yes. There you go. Barry Barn. Barry Barn. He is awesome. He's such a great guy. I've had the opportunity Speaker 0
to talk to him. Oh, nice. Speaker 2
Yeah. No. He's he's he's super cool guy. One of the things, like, in understanding strategic improvisation was learning and and sort of realizing that as athletes, like, we do it by with second nature. Mhmm. We really do because base you know, what the the the basic sort of philosophy of that is it's like, you know, adjust to the present, you know, react to the present, and then don't lose sight on the end goal. So it's like Mhmm. With every lacrosse play, every single one, no matter how perfect we've run it. Right? Speaker 2
There are variables in there that are infinitely changing, whether it's a bad pass, low pass, you got a defender on you, you don't have defender on you. We just sort of adjust to it because we understand that the goal is, in this case, to score a goal or in to win the Speaker 2
But we're, like, invert masters of this, and we don't even realize that it's, like, this incredible power that we have. And so in reading Barry's book and understanding that, you you know, it's like I've really applied that to what we do here now. And I'm like, wow. You know? It's been a very eye opening book from, you know, ironically, the Grateful Dead. Speaker 0
I love that. Yeah. Brings to mind a couple of, you know, the the there was the the Mike Tyson quote about getting punched in the in the mouth or something. Speaker 2
Got a plan if they get punched in the mouth. Exactly. Speaker 0
And then there's a military version of that too. But and and the military is obsessed with planning. And, I say that I mean, you need to plan. You need to have a strategy. Speaker 0
know, you can't just, like, wing it. Right? But but you have to know that, like you said, you could you're gonna have to adjust along along the way. So you kinda you need both for sure. Yes. Love that. So, man, I could we we have, we're on we're pretty much out of time, but I've got some rapid fire. Oh, man. Wow. There's so much more we could uncover here. I've got some rapid fire questions for you, though. Are you ready? Speaker 0
This one this one trips people up a little bit sometimes. Okay. What what do people misunderstand about you, Jake? Oh my god. It's Where do I start? Okay. Then what do people understand about you? Speaker 0
Not much. Not much. Speaker 2
No. I don't fit in a box, man. Like, I've never fit in a box. So it's like, you know, I guess I have, like I tend to have, like, a very dry sense of humor. So, like, I'll just say things deadpan and people won't know if I'm serious or not. So, like, you know, I'm like, like, yeah. I don't think you should do that. And I'm totally Speaker 0
Yeah. I I have to clarify too. No. No. No. I'm being serious. No. That was a joke. Yeah. Exactly. But, what's one of we've we've talked a lot about some of the the pain you've been through with, you know, different divorce and and emotional health and OCD and getting out of your own way. What's one of your biggest failures, and what did you learn from that experience? Speaker 2
Oh, man. One of my biggest failures. That's a great question. Wow. There's so many. Where do I even start? Man. You know, I I would say that one of my biggest failures was was probably, not believing in myself sooner. You know? Not not understand like, because we all have that gut feeling. Right? And you know, like, you you don't your brain doesn't wanna listen to it. And I think I probably would have made a lot of different decisions if if I had listened to it. You know? But at the same time, it's like, you know, we we get put on this path for a reason. Right? Everything like, I sort of believe that Sure. Yeah. Like, all the things that have happened in the past, like, that that have happened to get us to this point. Right? Yeah. If if I don't post whatever on LinkedIn or whatever on Facebook, like, we don't have this conversation. So I it's not to say I would I would change anything because I would change absolutely nothing about edit everything I've done. But I just think, like, if I had had more faith in myself, more belief in myself, which is, you know, in inside that that priest, absolutely overconfident. Like, crazy confidence. You stepped out off that field, though, not so much. You know? So it didn't translate for me into real light in, I guess, real life. It didn't translate to me how to lacrosse. You know? Right. So having that confidence, not that's not like arrogance, but confidence in me side of the sport probably would have done me a a much, you know Yeah. I I I probably would have tapped into that earlier. Speaker 0
I I mean, I think arrogance is it is a fine line, but it's sometimes arrogance is actually, I think, a reflection of a lack of confidence. It's like overcompensating for a lack of confidence. But, trying to you get that humble confidence is is is is where I try to get to, but Speaker 0
it's not easy. Try to be there. Speaker 2
Like, I don't have that with lacrosse or when I'm talking to people about lacrosse because I'm like Yeah. Yeah. Listen. We we we I don't know if we're on the same Speaker 0
Right. I was the man. You Speaker 2
said it, not me. Speaker 0
If you could go back and give your eighteen year old self some advice, what would that be? Speaker 2
I think probably what I just said. You know? Speaker 0
It's like Believe in yourself. Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, listen. Like, it's not gonna be easy. You know? Like, you you're not gonna know what you wanna do when you graduate. Like, first of all, like, you're gonna have no idea. So Yeah. Like, just pick something and do it. You know? And you can figure it out along the way. Like, you're not gonna get stuck there. It it's okay. You know? Like, the first job is not the one you do for fifty years like our parents did. Speaker 0
Yeah. That's so true. Yeah. For sure. If you could have coffee with any historical figure, who who would you choose and why? Speaker 2
Oh, man. God. There's so many. Speaker 0
They could still be this person can still be alive today. It doesn't have to be, Speaker 2
like fun. That's not fun. Man, can I Speaker 2
Because I'd love to have coffee with Elvis. That guy is Okay. That guy, man, he probably has some stories. Speaker 0
He didn't fit in a box either. Speaker 2
No. And and and, JFK, actually. Speaker 0
talk to cats. Which is that, like, one session of with the three of you talking or two separate sessions? Speaker 2
Be chaos. There's there's it probably would be yeah. No. No. Speaker 0
Yeah. No. Alright. If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, Jake, what would you do with it? Speaker 2
Probably give it away. Okay. Honestly, like, I I I mean, I would for sure yeah. No. I mean, how much money do I need? You know? Like, I I I've thought about this a lot actually because, like, when you're in startups, like, and you start having people talk about, you know, exits and things like that and, like, you're like, well, to understand, like, you know, who who are you building this for? Speaker 2
Companies you're building this for. Yeah. What what drives that thinking? You think about these things. You know? It's like, I would probably give it all I would give eighty percent of it away. Speaker 0
Love that. In your business, what is one challenge that you've you're facing right Speaker 0
Growth? So Growth. Just just from just getting more clients or, more investors? Speaker 2
Yeah. Investors. Like, we have no shortage of kids that wanna be part of this. We have no shortage of brands that wanna be part of this. I have no shortage of of, high level, you know, people in general that wanna be part of Topstar. I mean, this has been that I will say was you know, I mentioned it earlier. Like, bringing in Harvey and and Tanya into Topstar was the best decision that I made. I mean, quite it it just was because first of all, they're, like, incredibly they're awesome people. Like, Harvey's one of the nicest, most genuine people you'll ever meet, super well respected. His wife, Tanya, is, like, this really smart marketing person. And, like, together, there's this fantastic team, and they're hilarious, and they're just super down to earth. But, like, we're we're having like, we have no shortage of people that that believe in what we're doing. You know? It's like, we've got former, like, major athletic brand people that wanna help us. You know? We've got professional agents that are like, oh, no. I get this. Like, every every single student athlete I've spoken to is like, wow. This is interesting. So we have no shortage of, like, interest in people. It's like Mhmm. You know, we just need to get to those people who are gonna believe in in our vision for NIL and believe in, like, how we're trying to make it better. That can actually checks. You know? So it's like that that's that's really the the growth challenge, and that's for every, like, literally every startup. Like, it's Yes. Absolutely. Have those challenges, and that's one. Speaker 0
And every startup has all kinds of challenges. And so it's just if you don't have a challenge in your business, that's probably a little concerning. Speaker 2
Probably just my own loans. Speaker 0
Right. Exactly. What is a as we as we wrap up here, if you could try any other occupation outside of anything you've ever done, off the wall question, what would you what would you try? MMA. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't know. It's when I said goalies have a couple screws loose, I mean Well, I jujitsu for a few years, but, man, MMA is next level stuff. Speaker 2
So I I I have a friend who owns an MMA studio, I guess you call it, or gym, I guess. Yeah. Speaker 2
And he's he's one of my oldest friends. Like, I've known him for god, since I was seventeen years old. I mountain biked with him. Like, I've hung out with him forever. And he they own a gym, and they put some really good fighters into the UFC. Mhmm. And it was like out of it was like during it was like during the divorce time. Right? And he's like he's like, you should just start coming, man. Like, what are you doing? I'm like, alright. You know? So I I start going, and I get hooked. And so for, like, two years, I'm going, like, three days a week to MMA, sometimes four days a week. I'm spending hours at this gym. And one of the main reasons I'm spending hours at this gym is because at one point, my buddy Bill, whose wife owns this thing, goes to me. He's like, you know, he's like, you probably wouldn't be bad at fighting if you wanted to do it, man. Yeah. You know what? And I'm like, what? Like, what do you mean? What do you mean? Never mind. Speaker 0
You mean never mind? Speaker 2
They're like, what? So, yeah, MMA. Gotcha. Speaker 0
I like it except for the getting hit part, but, you mentioned one book. Any other books that you can recommend for the our list? Speaker 2
My people go surfing. Jan Svart. It's Speaker 2
Great one. My friend John Brubaker writes a bunch of really great business books. I cannot remember the name of it right now. I'm totally spacing because you put me on the spot. But he does he he's he's a he's a best selling author. He's fantastic. Coach Brew, he's fan he's amazing. And then Jocko's book, discipline equals freedom. Speaker 0
Oh, yeah. That's right. That's a that's a that's a good one. Alright. Two more questions. What is one question that I have not asked you that you wish I had? Speaker 2
Oh, boy. Do you want me to write you a check for five hundred thousand dollars? Speaker 0
Yeah. So if if I do that, you can help me through the divorce. Anyway, that was, like, you know, a dark joke. But Yes. I like that. Alright. Last question. Where can our listeners find you online, Jake? Speaker 0
Spell your last name. Speaker 2
K o, v as in velociraptor, a l c I k. Nice. I I own all the, the consonants, so no one else can have any. Speaker 2
They're all mine. So LinkedIn, top star AC on Instagram, top star athletic club on LinkedIn also. I'm on LinkedIn, and I got a weird name that goes back to AIM, AOL Instant Messenger from the nineties, Fish Jake. So, I'm on Instagram and Speaker 0
everything else. Speaker 0
Jake Kovalchick, this has been this has been a blast. We went a little long because I was enjoying it. I think I I know our listeners, have enjoyed it as well. So any parting parting words? Speaker 2
No. I'm just I'm really grateful for this, Jamie. Thank you so much. I mean, like you said, like, it's been a while since we connected, but I'm I'm I'm really, like this has been awesome. I I'm I'm grateful for the invite. Thank you so much, man. Speaker 0
Absolutely. I, I know you guys are gonna crush it. It's gonna be awesome. So thanks for, spending your time with us. And to the listener out there, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Thanks all. Take care. Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire.