Welcome everybody to another episode of the form adversity, to abundance podcast. I am your host Jamie Bateman, and I am thrilled today to be joined by Tony Santilli of so tylium Borelli attorneys at law. Tony how are you doing today? I am very Jimmy. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely no. I am really excited to dive in. I as we briefly mentioned before we hit record, I don't know your entire story, and I am very excited to learn more about it and but for the guests for the list are out there. Excuse me. I do, I do work with Tony. I we use Tony my own Tony's firm I should say in my own professional life, so I can vouch for the professional side of things with Tony, but we will dive into that later. Tony for The Listener, I will stop rambling. Won't you tell us who you are, and what you're up to today? Also, my name is Tony, so, totally currently today. I co run a law firm with my business partner law partner, Frank over it. We practice primarily out of the state of Ohio. I am in the our Cincinnati office and Franco's in our Cleveland office, but we do practice in many states, Ohio Kentucky Indiana, Michigan, Illinois and Alabama, and we have offices to offices in Ohio, one in Indiana and one in Illinois we do a variety of other states for a lot of bankruptcy matters, and then we do offer Nationwide bankruptcy coverage for a variety of matters in bankruptcy, but we can get to all that later on and you can check out our website and see those kinds of things on there. But, you know, I think we're here to kind of talk about, you know, how we got to this point, and I am interested in talking about that. Absolutely. So and we will dive into your more of what your firm does and because I am actually curious to know a little bit more of how things are split up and how things work. But let us dive into your personal back story, Tony, and we can certainly focus on the your growth as an entrepreneur. The Are out there is they're mostly entrepreneurs and, you know, so we will talk some about your actual practice and what that focuses on, but a lot about your entrepreneurial Journey as well as your personal Journey. So where should we start? Where do you want to start things off as far as your background? Well, let us go back to, I mean, I don't have a complicated childhood. My parents are together. They have always been together there. I still have them both they live about 15 minutes from my house. We had a great childhood. I am the oldest of three, you know, my, my father worked at General Electric for 45 years. And my mom stayed at home. As long as she could, until all of our school fees, and registration costs kind of made a single income house difficult to raise two boys and a girl in and back to work at that point. But by then I was old enough to kind of come home and take care of myself late in the afternoon and take care of my brother and whatnot. My sister eventually but done. But I kind of gone to entrepreneurialism, probably. When I was a teenager actually, I was swimming lesson instructor, okay? I was never on the swim team but I had I was kind of transformer just with different classes at YMCAs and organizations like that and enjoyed swimming not competitively again, we didn't, you know, we weren't competitive swimmers, but I was able to kind of utilize that in different schools in my area. Area, whether it was a neighborhood pool or a private backyard pool and you know, people would say, hey can you come teach my kids? Can you come teach my kids and right after a few months of doing this, you know, during one summer I kind of thought, you know, what think I can make a bit of a business out of that. Ha, ha, I love it. You know, it's funny. I printed up fliers, I had schedules, I had minimums for private pools. So you had to have a certain number of people at that pool for me to travel to your house, to teach, you know, your children or some neighbor children. Swimming lessons. And I was able to do that through the, you know, through the YMCA and through different organizations, that kind of certified that I was able to do that. And that was kind of my start. Yeah. Out of the, the typical brass cutting babysitting, stuff like, that, that was kind of boring for me growing up. I really should be than that. Yeah, and that's kind of where it started. Yeah, I know. So that's interesting because I know for myself, I have looked back And I never thought of it at the time, I didn't realize, you know, oh you're an entrepreneur, you know? I wasn't saying that to myself but looking back I did have a, I did personal training which did I just thought of because of what you just talked about with the swimming lessons, essentially the same type thing and then, you know, did I did have a grass cutting business and things like that and just I think I have always had that sort of bent toward being an entrepreneur and it sounds like you have as well. So Walk us through your entrepreneur entrepreneurial Journey from that point up in until becoming an attorney and, you know, when things kind of got real for you, if you will sure. So, I think back then, I mean, and even going further backer than that, I was a kid on a snow day that would love snow days. I would line up cleaning driveways the night before we knew, we would have no school. So, I mean, I wasn't interested in. I wasn't interested in sledding, I wasn't interested in playing, I was interested in lining up as many driveways as I could. I would make a assurances that they be plowed, they'd be you know shoveled before you know before somebody went to work that morning and you know I had my brother helped paid my brother and it's it just goes back that much further. Well, I am not let me ask you this. What was your why do you think that was in other words, you know, was it? Did you want the extra spending money? You wanted security, you wanted to prove yourself as you know, as your, why did you have that drive it's cut and dry as I just want a little spending money, okay? No my parents you know raised us with you know Vic raises very fiscally minded and Sharma, always say I can buy you a pair of shoes for $20. If you want your Nikes, and they're $60, you got to come up with the other 40, I can buy you. I can buy you tuscans at Sears for $15 if you want your Levi's, those are $30. You're gonna have to come up with the other 15. So, sure I was all rusted it having those kinds of things but it really wasn't so much for the material aspect of that. Now that I am an adult. Look back. I think it was more for, you know, being able to do something like that. You know, I took pride in how I looked, I looked I took pride and being able to do those things, but it really was more than I could accomplish a goal. My goal was, you know, this item or this trinket or this pack of baseball cards. And in order to get there, I had to earn my money to get there. And that was, I really think that really kind of formed it a good solid foundation for me. In what I thought was just tool, you know, I felt like, you know, still mattered more to me, I pay for school. I worked in the Summers. I worked throughout school and that's kind of what I thought that all of that work that I did as a preteen and a teenager, you know, doing those entrepreneurial things. I felt like that was what always laid the groundwork for me to, to have to be able to do that in school and pay for my school and maybe after got loans and everything. But you ask kind of how that relates It's to becoming a lawyer. So, yeah, exactly. I went straight from high school to College, college to law, school graduated from law school and got a job, okay? So this is just after 9/11 economies kind of down some, sure they're no longer giving away those high-paying jobs that they were giving away to anybody from law school. So I took a job, wasn't the greatest job in the world. It was doing bankruptcy work for a nationwide firm that did consumer bankruptcy. So I represented consumers, who file bankruptcy Okay, I wanted something that I could hit the ground running in. I didn't want to carry someone else's briefcase. I wanted interaction with clients. I wanted interaction with the court. You know, I wanted to get my name out there my ticket out there. Sure it was not going. Well, 33 years. I was I was struggling. I didn't like it. I felt like I needed to leave, but keep in mind that the only thing I knew growing up was my dad who went to work for 45 years. Years at General Electric and most of those 45 years were not good. And I remember every home and, you know, surviving layoffs and surviving friends, getting laid off and know that's what I do. I knew well, that's just what you do. Just keep your nose down. Yeah, you're just continue to grind, right? Yeah, I mean that's I think that's an obviously nowadays, it's people, jump, jump ship left and right let us be honest with different career and I don't say that to blame them necessarily. I just think it's a lot more common that people change, change career, choices and paths a lot more frequently now. So but you know that is absolutely back, you know, you and I are about the same age and so this was what 20 years ago we're talking this point and so you know at that point it wasn't very common to just change jobs and change careers, let alone jobs within every couple of years. So When to know you know, that's a very individual thing. I think as far as knowing am I being stupid by continuing you know to be stubborn and continue down this path versus hey there are plenty of signs here that I am not happy. This isn't my calling, this isn't the right thing for me to do. How did you go through that mentally at that point? It was tough because again, I had married, my wife. At that point, I met and married. My wife. While I was working at that first job, and We were both still kind of starting out. She had a job, very entry level kind of job at an Anna. She doing back then she was doing. I can't remember what she was doing, just entry-level business. I mean, this is this low end first job out of college for her kind of work and it was a big step for, you know, for us to get married and combined, you know, too small in comes to a medium, kind of income and not knowing kind of what was next. If I didn't want to work at that job, He more, you know, was a little scary for us. So I put feelers out there and I ended up switching from doing, the representing consumers in bankruptcy, work to representing creditors in bankruptcy work, and I make that move in about 2006. I junked the jump the sides of the aisle in the core cast, and that's where Jenna okay, got it. So, for the listener out there who's unfamiliar entirely with, what you're, what you're talking about. The Creditor like you mentioned is someone who For bankruptcy, I think you mentioned chapter 7 and 13 or the, where the primary chapters. So what previously, what was your typical client profile before you switched over to the other team, if you will? You're so my first kinds of clients were you and me? My first clients were consumers to grow everyday people. That usually had a something bad happened to them. So usually there is a loss of a job, a sick, child singer sick spouse. House, you know, medical bills, things like that. That would cause somebody to have financial difficulties and took the point where they would need to file bankruptcy Chapter 7 or chapter 13 kind of bankruptcy. So that was my first foray into the legal world. Yeah. And then when you switch to switched over, then what was the Avatar of your I guess? What does that continue to be at this point? Sure. So then when I switch sides, I then began representing the creditors of the people that Used to represent. Now obviously, I couldn't represent creditors in those cases anymore because I care can't represent both sides in the same case, kind of thing. So eventually those cases, all went away, and I was able to represent just solely creditor or, so we're talking about Banks, mortgage companies, Auto Lenders, landlords really anybody that has money owed to them from somebody else, that became my client after my first job. And again, this Was all bankruptcy focused, right? It wasn't like foreclosure or anything like that at that point I was strictly a bankruptcy guy. Yeah, got it. And again so this was it's not like you were at 10 years. Old said, I want to be a bankruptcy attorney. It was more just one thing led to another and you kind of became an expert in that field. And so then, okay, 2006 you mentioned, how long did you? And you were working for someone else at that point, right? Correct, okay, how long did you do that for? I did that. So, In from a big Nationwide firm representing just consumers in bankruptcy to a more Regional firm out of Cincinnati, representing creditors in bankruptcy know that firm did foreclosures bankruptcies several other different areas of law. But I stuck to my stuck to bankruptcy, and I was there for about three years and just kind of again, I grew lost. I grew. You know, I felt like my voice wasn't right. I felt like my work wasn't being appreciated. Not necessarily monetarily. I was okay in my monetarily but my opinion didn't matter. My, my wants and desires didn't matter so long as the owners, you know, we're met, then that was good enough for the firm, and that's fine. That's, that's, that's just fine. All right. There to other firms, just like that. And I is allowed, you know, after a brief honeymoon, period of all, you know, Tony's the new guy he's going to do this, he's going to do that. Wow, I would just I would get in a funk very, very ugly. Yeah, I can relate and I think a lot of our listeners can relate. I work for seven years at the Department of Defense full-time, and then seven years part-time and after, you know, five or six years of full-time work there. It's, it's Groundhog Day. It's the same commute every day. It's, you know, it's not that you're speaking for myself. It's not that I was Entirely miserable it. Meaning you know, life has no meaning but it had to have more meaning. I just wasn't having the impact or the Fulfillment that I knew I could have. So sounds like you know, you were doing fine. It's not like life was awful, but they're you knew there was more so talk to kind of the mindset there as far as moving toward creating, you have been an entrepreneur years, Fire on a lesser scale than you are now and so, how did your mindset change? What did what, what? How did your perspective? Your priorities? What changed? At that point mentally for you. So, driveways and teaching some of the lessons, I was just a kid with a plan and who wanted some money, as well. I will call it. You know? Let me know really know what that word entrepreneurial was. Yeah, and I met, I met Frank. Oh, brilliant. Current law partner out up but I had before my last job. Okay, kind of left that job. Then Franco grew up in a very entrepreneurial household and would always tell me, man, you can do this yourself, you can do this yourself, I would be miserable. You don't have to be unhappy and just, I was scared. I was, you know, I there was, there's a lot of (Peace) in a 95 working for somebody else on that. Same paycheck, whatever. That is, you know, counting on that same paycheck every, you know, every couple of Fridays. And there's a lot of (Peace) in that and didn't have kids. It was just her and I we were just kind of working our way up through our careers, and we were very comfortable. I mean there really wasn't a whole lot of adversity. You know, this point you know, things are good. We bought a house. We had cars, we were taking trips together but I just was completely thoroughly disgustingly unfulfilled, you know, working for People that many of them were wonderful people to work for and with but your Franco my business partner now and always time. And you can see yourself, you can do this yourself and finally I said, okay I am going to do this myself. So what was Franco's position at that, at that point, had he done it himself already. So he have done it himself. Done strictly collections work, and some kind of business transaction work for himself, okay? After working for some other firms, as well. Sure, On the end of it for himself for a while, and then he joined a firm for that consistent income. Probably sure that's stability and consistency yet. And that's where he and I that he and I met at that firm. Got it, got it, you know, stayed in touch, he left there to go back around on his own. Okay, left are just trying to chase happiness at someone else's firm and of course, within months at that firm, it just wasn't, right? Sure he stayed in touch with Franco and that's kind of when we kind of have the idea of well, I am going to Branch out on my own Franco's, going to start his own, and we will just kind of cross-refer work to one another and that scared the heck. Let us get the Daylights out of me, you know? I am I do. I do bankruptcy work, you know, I it's what I do. It's what I know, it's what I am comfortable with and the Specter of doing this for myself was really too much. Drag wasn't an entrepreneur. I didn't know what I was doing. Yeah, absolutely. It's a whole different Beast. Whether you're talking about being an attorney or not, creating a business is a separate thing than being then having a, you know, being a professional for someone else. So, and then what happened from there. How did you join together? Sure. So it took, it took a lot of conversations. It took getting our lives involved. Yeah. Do understand. I think, Franco had some concerns about Having a partner again. I think he had some difficulty. He's doing those kinds of things in the past, and he was very comfortable being on his own, you know, I just I wasn't comfortable being on my own. I wanted to be with somebody that I could count on that I could trust that could trust me and that I can say business with ancillary law practice that mine would fit in with, that could bring other things to the table, like, you know, some business Acumen, some An Acumen that I didn't think that's the time. You know, that's a great point and I love to touch on that a bit. So I know you started suttill, Ian Burley in 2015. So you have been at it for coming up on eight years now, maybe, maybe more than eight years and years past. All right, so right about eight years when this comes out. So, talk to the for The Listener out there because I have been through some of this myself as far as you know, how did, Choose a business partner. And, and it doesn't always a lot of times it's organic. It's not necessarily, hey, I need to choose a business partner. Let me put out an ad for a business partner, an interview people. You might not even now you have a need for a business partner, and then you realize that can be partners with this person. So there's no one-size-fits-all answer or way to go about it. But what would you tell the kind of budding entrepreneur out there? Or someone who is an entrepreneur, who may be looking to partner with someone else not on a deal? But on a business venture lessons, you have learned or lessons that, you know, Franco has learned. How can you speak to the listener out there? Sure why. I really can only speak to myself about this. I have only had one business partner, and it's only been from going as far as I am concerned. It will also that will forever only be friends. Got it. He just, we mesh extremely well. Nice weaknesses are my strength. My strengths are his weaknesses. I bet we agree on. Honestly, I bet we agree on. 95% of the things we do and the fact that five percent most of those if he's adamant about something good. Let us go. Let us do it. If I am mad about something, and he's not there. Good let us do it my way. You know he's he trusts me, I trust him. I mean there's another thing people in this world that if they told me to jump I am jumping up and me to have that trust in somebody. And I feel he would say the same thing from you know is Paramount to me. Meantime, I trust Franco with my life in many ways. Yeah. And, and then, and that trust is not hard. It's not easy to come by it. Sure, fine. I lucked out, I like that big time, got it. So it sounds like he was able to, you were able to assuage his fears. I guess, as far as his, you know, his concerns and from that had come out of having it sounds like maybe some bad Partnerships previously but I love it. It's awesome. Awesome. So how walk us through from, you know, from 2015 through today? What's the growth of your business? Looked like and I know you have got you brought on a lot more Partners is that to grow? The firm. Is that right? So yeah, so we started it just Franco, and I was he was in a small office I bet it was maybe 200 250 square feet Okay small office I was out of my office in my house, and we started April. Is the 2015. And by that summer, we had both hired multiple people to, to help with our kind of growing offices. I think we have already moved into a larger office at that point. I was on the hunt for office space and it really just grew from there. It grew from just doing State Court, collection, work, and bankruptcy, work something else Works off Federal collection works, I will State Court work, just do When those two things to we had clients that wanted us to start doing foreclosure work, which frankly I had both done in the past and kind of knew enough to be dangerous on. So we took a couple of months worth of collection, of foreclosure work from a client. And when you, okay, we need to get some help on. So that started, you know, a third Practice Group for us. We have bankruptcy, we had collection, foreclosure kind of started that third Practice Group for us and, you know, it's just been steady growth. Understand. So let us start with the two of us and growing to, we have 13 Attorneys at this point, and I am saying 25:28 support staff people, ranging from paralegals, to billing, people to human resource people. We have it folks that we contract with we have got vendors that we associate with now that we count on to provide services for us, we went from, you know, just a handful of two or three. States to, you know, multiple States. And so, it sounds like it's been relatively organic, you kind of take it one step at a time. You didn't necessarily have a 10 20 year plans with exactly how this, this firms going to turn out. Is that fair to say? I mean, it was, it was I think like everything, you know. We thought very small with this. I mean, this wasn't something that, you know, we just wanted to make enough to, you know, Families and have a nice little life and have that respect that. He and I both craved from previous employers that previous jobs and you know to be able to build that you know we took what we didn't like at other places and wanted to make sure that we corrected those things. That's a really we wanted to make sure that we provided a platform for our, our attorneys to speak up and our staff to speak up from the ground up, coming on your First day, if you come up with an idea, we remember, we're small, we can let us put behind you and practice. Let us give it a try. Yeah. Well, you know, we're not old stodgy people. We're not recalcitrant to change. I mean, you know, we are been, were we want to try these things, you know, when Frank was telling me about, you know, starting a firm together. I am like, I like no, I have no concept of entrepreneurialism. I have never done, and I am telling people this, and they're looking at me, like, but you He's been entrepreneurial. You disgust me lessons? You lined us. Jobs you babysit. You circulated Flyers to cut grass, you. You paid your dad for the guests and the mower, you know, you had that Spirit your whole idea just really know it. Well, a lot of times it's other people can see the strengths and us more than we can ourselves. So, tell me this, do you work harder now than you did? When you were working for someone else, I would say actually now to that. Okay. Okay, we have in the past from what we have made it kind of our process here to hire without we are smarter than us. We definitely do not want to be. Nor are we the smartest people in any room that we're in our offices? And you know, want people that can just blow us out of the water with their, you know, reciting of code and taste law and, you know, we want to get out of the way and let a smart people in the room. Have a voice that makes And so, how about the first few years? I mean, you said you have we're their periods of time when you really had to put your nose to the grindstone so to speak 20-hour days, okay? So speak to the entrepreneur as far as I will ask this first, would you recommend? And we know it's not one, size fits all every situation is different. So let us get the, the attorney caveats out of the way, right? But now, but would you recommend somebody who's thinking about starting their own business? Should they create a side? Hustle or should they kind of just jump in to feet, you know, headfirst and just go for it. Okay. And that's a great. Great, great. Great question. I did not have a whole lot of responsibility when I made this move. I was married. My wife was working. She had a very good job. She could carry the health insurance. She could carry more payments, you know, we had done some planning, so we were putting money away. It was very easy for me to literally turn off. One switch and turn on a new Switch. Got it. Ya know full. Well. That you know we were going to give it a year or so and if it didn't work I was just get another job. Sure. Absolutely. But by think I think that's not the average person. I think the average person has a lot more going on, you know, when they're about making that move. So yeah, it depends on what you're looking to do it, but now it is more of a side hustle. You can't really do that in law, right? That you have, that's true. Serve to kind of firms as an attorney years. Boiling it down. It's not easy to do sure, that makes a lot of sense. So yeah. Obviously it does depend on everyone situation and goals. So sounds like you did really have to bust you know. Bust your butts for a few years there and then you able to grow your team and now you have got not that you're just sitting on the beach all day long but sounds like you have got systems and people in place to kind of really lift you, you all to the next level. Um where would you say you're headed in the next? You know, few years with the firm our mission now is just continued steady growth that will probably involve expansion in terms of Staffing. I don't know if that involves expansion in terms of, you know, additional states of representation but probably Amazon new state for us. For example, in the reason we have Alabama is that we brought on a journey about a year ago in the license and some contacts that could provide us work Alabama. So Has that. Is that Dennis? That's Dennis Ferguson. He's asked our partners. He's a partner out of our Indianapolis office. I had worked with him a little bit previously, and I was I thought that was a that was nice work by Tony and Franco to get him, get him on board. So no dentist for probably 15. 16 years. Dennis has got it years of experience. He's exactly what we're interested in somebody with something with multiple years of experience working for us. People that is just looking for that same amount of respect and say in a business or in a firm as Franco and I wanted so absolutely that we have brought on they don't have to worry about the finances. They don't have to worry about, you know, making payroll and things like that. It's more of a title that unto them out of a respect for what they can bring to the table. And we have got senior attorneys much the same thing. It's a respect thing here. So it's This person's practiced for so long. No, so much and is so important to us, we want to honor that we want to give, we want to give them that to the public and that helps. It makes a lot of sense. It sounds like you're very people focused. And I, you know, I have gotten to know you from a distance a little bit over the years and just seems like, you know, you and Franco, both care a lot, about your staff and your clients. So I think that's fantastic. So if you would, I know there was some Early recent personal adversity and I know it's not always easy to talk about Tony, but I appreciate it. If you could dive into that a little bit, and then we can, then I have got some other questions after that, but talk to us about kind of on the personal side of the adversity, you have got with recently. Sure, sure. So, I have mentioned my wife a few times. She was crucial to my success, kind of going up in different firms and, you know, always being, you know, my strongest cheerleader behind, you know, over my shoulder and, you know, kind of my chief counselor, my Chief Operating Officer. I mean, she was always helping me with decisions and whatnot. And, and when she was 17, way, before we got married, we got married late in our 20s, which was she was diagnosed with cancer? Wow, we knew, you know, we knew that when we got married that we weren't going to be that couple that retired at 60 and walked along the beach for 20 years together. I mean, we knew that our time together was going to be short. We didn't know how far we How long we just that was, you know, you can't help who you fall in love with and sure. You know, I was willing to take on that responsibility. And it was another reason why I was looking for something of my own was, you know, I knew as she got older and as you know, I knew as she, you know, Grew Older that we have issues that we would need to deal with. And when we started the firm, that was one of the reasons why we started the firm was. I knew I would likely need significant time off for treatments and for operations surgeries and one not over the next you know we hope to many years from, but she got pretty sick couple years ago this summer 2021 and was unfortunately just kind of spiral from there for her, and she lost her battle in November of last year, so we you know it that helped Men to surmount knowing several months in advance if there wasn't really anymore that could be done. So I was really we were able to grieve together. I was able to grieve my wife with my wife. Hmm. Awesome. My wife with a gift. That was incredible. Well thank you. I mean, thank you for opening up about that. I know it's not easy to speak about and again that's what this show is all about. It's on the, on the downside, it's very easy for me to pretend like, you know what, for One thing to just glossed, right over this adversity, like it's no big deal, we just talk about it. Move on. That's, you know, that's not the approach. We're trying to take here but you know, instead we're trying to let the listener know that we all experience adversity in one way or another in life. And again, like we mentioned its often health or relationship. And in this case those were both of those right or financial and or There are of and, you know, I just, yeah, I am not gonna pretend I know what that's like, but I appreciate you sharing it. And, and the fact that, you know, you have obviously had massive growth on the, you know, through your business and your career since, you know, starting as a swim instructor, if you will, and it up until now. But that doesn't mean like. That doesn't mean it's been a straight line to success and it's always up into the right without valleys. And so thank you for sharing that. I mean I would imagine and correct me if I am wrong but I would imagine in a way you were able to cherish the time that you spent together and maybe even cherish your own just every day a little bit more than maybe you would have otherwise most tell. Jamie most definitely, I mean, she works at the firm. I mean, we spent 24 hours a day together, you know, she was as much a part of this firm and the growth of the firm. And everybody here she hired Most of the people that work out of our Cincinnati office. Okay, hand and hiring, most of the people that worked at have all of our offices. Gotcha. And she was able to see a lot of the successes that we had and help with the failures and help, you know, help the policies in place to not have, you know, bad things happen and you know I my regret isn't really so much regret but that she's not been able to see this all through, you know. Sure. And that's But sure I am sorry, but being surrounded by so many people that knew her is a blessing to me. That's again, thank you for opening up. I do have some, some questions here and some of these will kind of relate back to the personal side and some will relate more to the business side. What's one thing that people misunderstand about you? So there's no two faces of Tony. And I think, I think, if people see me at conferences, or people see me on the street, or people see me really anywhere, what you see, is what you get? I, you know, I might have maybe bitten more of a filter when I am at work. I am not, you know, I don't dress one way at work and another way I am the, you know, in my personal life, I talk the same sound, the same again, language might be a little different, but, you know, other than that, what you see is what you get with me. And I think, I think I am a pretty genuine person in that regard. Okay, love it. If you could have coffee with any historical figure, who would it be? And why, Wow, called the coffee question. If I can have coffee with anybody, Still being still been alive today or not. I mean, I think I would say my grandfather. My mom's dad, who I never knew for a while he passed away. When I was in fifth grade, he was the first person I knew to die, okay. He, you know, he gave my, you know, he gave my grandmother and my mom and her sisters and brother a good life growing up. I think he was at a steel mill or some kind of mill work and The ventricle later in life. Got the entrepreneurial bug and he opened up a gift. Up. And in a small town in North Jersey, have this entrepreneurial bug about him and my mom would always kind of compare me to him and talk about what I am doing versus what he did and how he started his business and kind of our attitudes about work. And if you're going to have a business, be open, be available, be you know, be president be, you know, how you treat people, how you treat customers, how you treat your employees and I would love to talk with him. He and have coffee with him to see if he's proud of what I have done and everything or appreciate that answer. And I can vouch for your responsiveness and professionalism and you know, from my perspective and working with you. It's top-notch. So I think he would be proud if I can see, you know, speak for him. If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it? I would keep one and give away nine. Okay, I have grown Very philanthropic as I have been able to and I probably derive the most pleasure in life, giving money away at this plant. And this is small amounts. I mean, I am by no means that, you know, somebody you're going to stand up to you. Yeah. We don't want your phone ringing for that reason, right? We, you know, we have some, some chairs Charities that the firm contributes to that the silly family, you know, holds near and dear. For a variety of other reasons and being able to, to work with those organizations, not only in financial ways. But with my time as much as I can I am broke boy doing love it. Speaking of your firm. What is one challenge that you're facing in your business right now? So we always have regulatory challenges so dealing with you know, note buyers dealing with institutional investors dealing with large Banks. There're different regulations, you know, all along the way, and they are always changing, and they change depends on whose in the White House. Depends on who controls Congress depends on what banks are failing and how places want to regulate those kinds of things or organizations, what the cfpb wants to do. What when all different governmental entities are doing not only on the federal level, but state level local levels on top of all of those, and being able, It's tough to stay competitive, but at least thing on top of them, is always going to be our biggest concern compliance Regulatory Compliance, sure, but it does lead to a little bit of job security to doesn't it if that's your expertise, we, we don't do much in terms of interpretation. So some people with, you know, probably have come to us with, you know? Hey, can I do X, Y and Z and Sawdust, you know, we would have to tell people, you know, talk with regulatory counsel, talk to somebody else, you know who can help set you up, that particular way, sure that makes sense we can, you know, we can get you set up as an LLC. We can do those kinds of things, but one on to, you know, setting up your note business. That's, yeah, it's not really your, your thing. Got it. Understood what's one thing in your industry? Just, you know, one Viewpoint, Maybe. In your field of expertise that almost no one agrees with you about. Do you or Franco have any kind of Divergent not Divergent between the two of you, but does your firm have any kind of unique perspective or take on any of the any hot button issues or anything like that? Not necessarily A hot-button issues. But I will tell you that one of the reasons we started the firm was because there was we saw that the smaller investor, the onesie twosie note, buyer, investor, Like that. They were so dramatically underrepresented by the firm's that we had worked for in the past. With those firms specialized in high-volume word, from Bank of America and Chase and Ocwen and Nation are smart Mr. Cooper and would build their firms around how those companies wanted them to because they were sending them literally thousands of miles of on and the smaller investors. And I am not talking necessarily just one or two filing, you know where to You know, note kinds of people I am talking sure hundreds, right? Mostly in small businesses, but they were under representative, and we started the company we wanted to make sure no matter how big we got that we always had a place for the clients that got us. Our start as wear that size of investor. Yeah, I mean, that's different some firms that do what we do. They don't want to, they don't want that. They're not interested in that sure makes sense. Yeah, I mean that's really my wheelhouse, you know. Oh and from as far as a note buyer perspective and no investor and that's also the reason we started by Phi Loan Servicing as you know to meet the needs of similar type clientele. Not the big hedge funds or big Banks out there. What's one occupation, other than your own that you'd like to try? It's a great one to, wow. So let us see what's another occupation. I can see myself. Branching out into other businesses, perhaps, okay? I have learned things good and bad, you know, not all are not. All of the things we have done here. Have worked we pivoted? We have adjusted I think I have learned things that I am not sure where they would translate to butt, but it might be staying too. To, you know, be a consultant for, you know, other smaller businesses or other entrepreneurs. Yeah, I think if I was able to do something like that, I would almost be a mentor to people who were just as confused as I was. Then I hear you. Yeah, you know, but knew they weren't happy where they were. Yeah, absolutely. I can relate a lot to that, as much as I love managing our note funds and building the team and you know work on Note deals and individual deals. At the same time, I personally am a lot more or I should say somewhat more excited recently about small business and just a lot of the principles and lessons that can apply to any type of entrepreneurial Endeavor or many at least. So I hear you on that, I think. So, what would you say? What would you do differently? Maybe. If you, you know, not necessarily to the attorney side of things with the law, specific side. But as far as Building your business. What would you do differently? If you had to do it over again. Sure. What would I do differently? I would probably pay maybe a little bit more mind to Growing the business a little faster. Maybe we thought a little who is a small at the beginning. I think we could have probably started a little bit bigger than we did, but we didn't know what we had, you know, and as an attorney hella client, when you work for a firm, I am leaving, will you come with me? You can't. Ooh, that yeah, you just do rely on that relationship and you, you have to leave. You have to firm and say, hey, I am over here now, cross your fingers, and hope they come with you. And I think that if we had to do it all over again, we might have had a little more confidence in. Who would come with us? And we might have started a little bit bigger. I don't know if you had any more ownership involved, you know, Franco and I we like keeping that between the two of us but if it Don't, it's rare that, I will answer a question that somebody asked, and they come to me with the questions. I understand why people come to me with questions, but I will often ask that question on one of our other attorneys here because then point better than I do. You know, at this point, you know, Franco and I have pivoted in many ways to Business Development and doing things like this with you. Jamie and yeah. And, you know, just kind of spreading the word maybe a little bit more about the firm going to conferences and seeing what other people are doing and seeing what may be the next. The next Trend might be seeing if, you know if we got into another area of the law, what would that be? You know, where can we work? It we use what we currently do and effectuate change or be able to bring that business on and our firm? Mmm. That sounds like maybe you would, you would have worked again, easy to look back and second-guess but it sounds like you're saying you would have worked on your business rather than in your business a little bit earlier than you, then you started to I have done much easier and more succinct way of saying that, no, I just listened to try to pull out a few nuggets. That's all. But so, as we wrap up here, Tony, tell us tell the listener out there. What is a book or two that you'd recommend for them? Um, so I actually don't read a whole lot of books. Law school will live. That love to get out of here, you know? Podcast or any anybody you follow on social media or, you know, any kind of consuming of a good content. I am pretty boring in that regard. Okay, Lisa, I am not trying to be dodgey or anything. I like, I like reading other people's stories, I think maybe that's what I am most interested in whether they're, you know, their biographies, not historical biographies. I mean, you know, Everyday run-of-the-mill People kind of biographies, but I Enjoy reading people's stories. I have always had an interest in you know what makes Jamie what makes now John Doe and get to that point. So that's you know, somebody puts a book like that in front of me or a podcast like that in front of me. That's what makes Joe Borough to Borough. Right. Exactly. I am a Ravens fan. So, you know, we can co-exist, right? So tell me this, how has I know you have grown financially and I know you spoke to some Freedom that you had kind of built into your personal life because of your, your wife's Health situation, and things like that. It's time for you to them, but speak to the listener out there. As far as how has Financial abundance benefited you in your life. So it has its help me with maybe some professional anxiety. You know, I know that if there's a downturn here at work, I will be okay. My staff and be a I know that I will be able to do the things full of radically that I want to do whether it's a little bit that I am able to do now or it's down the road, you know, I am retired when the firm is, you know, passed on to somebody else. When, you know, whatever that time is, you know, my hope is that I will have, you know, A certain amount of money set aside that I can use to benefit the lives of others. And then, you know, my goal, when I passed away is to have money that goes into a trust, which I formed already that then benefits, you know, several Charities that I have been part of you know, motion of mine and that the that gives me a lot of I feel very good about that. I feel very honored to be able to do That I do truly believe that. That's I mean to anyone out there that's how you're going to get satisfaction or truly. An abundant life is giving back and serving others easy for me to sit here and say this on a, you know, on a podcast. But I do recognize that I bet that's through the stories we have heard on the show so far. I mean from adversity to abundance really getting to True. Abundance is an all about, you know, stockpiling. A bunch of (Cash) and sitting on that. It's really more about serving others and making an impact and being a part of something bigger than yourself. You have spoken a couple of times about giving money away or to Charities and things like that. Can you drill down a little bit more? What are their specific Charities that you give to? So my Ivan Fu, with Down Syndrome, my brother's first son has Down syndrome. So, an organization that's of great importance to Our family, the Santilli family is the Down Syndrome Association of Greater Cincinnati. They were such a tremendous help to my brother and his wife when they receive their diagnosis, and we have become very, very heavily involved in that organization. God up, my wife through personal, serendipitous happens happening, and of God got us involved with a school here in the Loveland Ohio, Cincinnati Ohio area called Ohio. Lee voices, which specializes in teaching, deaf children to speak and then kind of guiding them to a life of hearing, and we that's another organization that I had to take a great pride. Great amount of pride in being a part of those are going to that are very important to me. Makes sense. Those are two very important ones. That sounds great. So we have covered a lot. Lot of ground here. Is there anything we haven't covered that? You'd like to touch on. Um no. This has been certainly a greater and greater spectrum of discussion than I was expecting, and I am glad that we got his things. You know, I started this by saying, and I am an open book and I think that your listeners will be able to see that. Yeah I mean this there's a lot especially nowadays with social media Instagram and everything. It's very easy to You know, think. Oh, Tony started this business, and he's just killing it. And there's been, no, you know, no ups and downs, no downs. And it's just been all up and it's just easy to gloss over the struggles and the trials that are real and come with whether you're not tripping or not that come with life. So I appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing and as far as just speak to the, your kind of your client out there again, who are you looking to serve? And how can they find you online? Line. So they can find us online through our website www.sceeto.com early.com. I am on social media, I am a Facebook on the LinkedIn guy so you can look me up that way, just search for my name, you can find me that way. Our firm is also on LinkedIn and social media and those contact those contacts. Probably point. They actually do know. They point to me, they point to miss, you can find me that way we specialize in helping small. Aaron midsize investors, you know, we have institutional clients but our bread and butter has been and will continue to be, you know, the smaller investor group and then important to us. Absolutely. I know you do a lot of bankruptcy work, foreclosure work when necessary and evictions. If you have to looks like from your website, business formation and transactions, you can touch on. And now you all do collateral reviews and that kind of thing as well. We do pre-purchase collateral reviews, Campos part. There's some that we don't really get involved in and then a quick glance we can determine whether or not we're not going to get involved with that, you know if you don't want to be able to make a person happy, you know, it depends I think a lot on how the that collateral review is presented. You know what, that person's goals are, you know? But that is also something that we do pre petitioner, pre-purchase collateral reviews, got it? Well Tony, thanks again, I would it's been 90, you know, not always easy to talk about some of the trials you have been through and, but we do appreciate you spending your time with us because I even if you have a little more free time than you used to, I know you're still a busy guy, and we do appreciate you spending your time with us and opening up and congrats on the success and it just seems like you have a very healthy perspective on things, and we appreciate that. So thanks again Tony. Thank you very much. Jim are appreciated. Absolutely into the listener out there, check out our new newly launched website, adversity to abundance.com. And that too, is the number to adversity to abundance.com. We're going to start putting all things podcast related on that website, so check that out. And don't forget to share the show and thanks for spending your most valuable resource with us and that is your time. Thanks everyone. Take Care.