From Spartan to Self-Compassion: Counselor John Windsor’s Journey of Self-Discovery, Entrepreneurship, and Service
Episode Details
Transcript
In this episode, host Jamie Bateman welcomes his brother-in-law, John Windsor, a licensed therapist and founder of JW Counseling. They delve into John's journey from personal adversity to becoming a compassionate mental health professional. This episode offers insights into the importance of self-compassion and the role it plays in overcoming life's challenges.
“I used to take more of a stoic or Spartan mentality… now I see myself with much more compassion.” -John Windsor
“The bike trip was where I chose my purpose… It gave me stability.” -John Windsor
“Every single person has such a vastly different experience; that’s what makes counseling so interesting.” -John Windsor
Actionable Insights for Listeners:
- Self-Compassion: Learn how shifting your mindset toward self-compassion can lead to greater achievements without burning out.
- Mental Health Awareness: Understanding that everyone faces unique challenges can foster empathy both personally and professionally.
- Balancing Ambition with Wellbeing: Finding harmony between pushing yourself for success while remaining kind enough not to break down is crucial for sustained growth.
Connect with John Windsor
Website:https://www.jzwcounseling.org/
PsychologyToday: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/john-z-windsor-baltimore-md/1176815
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Speaker 0
This episode is a little bit close to home. We get to hear from my brother-in-law, John Windsor. John is a licensed therapist. He runs JW Counseling, which is a side gig for him. It's a side hustle that he started last year, and we get to talk about the business angle a little bit toward the end of the episode. But John works full time as a therapist as well for Catholic charities, And, he's got a fascinating story. He's dealt with some personal trauma as we all have, and he's also dealt with some very serious family disruption, and I think that's largely what, was the impetus behind him wanting to change career paths and get into therapy. We focus on John's shift in how he views himself, with a lot more self compassion. Used to he used to take more of a, a stoic or Spartan mentality or approach, and now he really is able to see himself with a lot more compassion, but still is an action taker and is all about growth and serving others. And in today's world, man, we have a mental health crisis on our hands. You know, I I I just really love John's approach where it's it's, he's kind of an everyday guy, if you will, who came from team sports, was always had a lot of pressure on him as the oldest sibling, to achieve and to perform. And but he always viewed himself as less than less than in stature, less than in, his reading capabilities. And, we talk about how he's been able to overcome that and how he works with clients to be able to shift their mindset, specifically around self compassion, but still having that element of pushing yourself to achieve and to be able to make a positive impact on others. We get into, we talk about I I I challenge them a little bit, you know, talking about, the ego and and, Michael Jordan, and, you have to wait for for those details. But he had a fantastic answer to that question. But if you're looking for a high quality individual therapist, group therapist, family therapist, reach out to John. He's a fantastic human being. Speaker 1
Welcome to From Adversity to Abundance, the go to podcast for real estate entrepreneurs seeking not just to thrive, but to conquer with resilience and mental sharpness. Each week, join us as we dive into the compelling world of real estate through the lens of mental fitness, where challenges transform into opportunities. Get ready to transform your mindset and expand your understanding of what it takes to succeed in real estate. Let's explore these stories of triumph and resilience together. Speaker 0
Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm pumped today to have with us John Windsor of JW Counseling. John, how are you doing? Speaker 2
I'm doing really well. Very excited to be here, Jamie. Thank you. Speaker 0
Awesome. In the interest of full disclosure, John and I know each other quite well. John is my brother-in-law and, not my youngest brother-in-law, but married to my youngest sister. And, so I'm gonna, at times, pretend I don't know John for the listener out there. And, for the listener, John, who are you, and what are you up to today? Speaker 2
Yeah, Jamie. Thanks. I'm John Windsor. I'm a licensed professional counselor, so I have a counseling practice and also work in the, public sector as well. Yeah. I'm been doing this for five years, and I'm excited, but it's been a long journey getting to this point. Changing my mindset from the kinda, like, Spartan, what I thought was a stoic mindset to now more of a self compassionate understanding, and empowering mindset. That's that's kind of how it shifted things. Speaker 0
Interesting. And there's a lot that you just we could unpack. We won't have time for everything. I'm curious about the what you thought was stoic, you you know, versus what is actually stoic or what you think now is stoic. But anyway, let's dive into your background, your backstory, John. Again, I know a lot about you, but for the listener, so you are from the Baltimore, Maryland area. And, tell us a little bit more about your childhood, if you would. Speaker 2
Yeah. Sure. So, yeah, I grew up in Baltimore where, lacrosse is a big is a big thing. Sports were a big thing for me growing up. Sports school, there was a lot of pressure to to do the best I could do, which I think is a is a good expectation to have that that that we'd want to do our best. But growing up, yeah, being I know we can't see it here, but being a smaller guy, so sometimes on the athletic field, yeah, that there were certain things that would would get to me about being that that having those kinda insecurities and dealing with them, but trying to push myself further. And, so, yeah, I mean, that that that's where I first I really gained an idea of my identity with sports, school, that I was the tenacious one, in school and sports. That's that's kind of what I feel like I was known for and and what I prided myself on. Mhmm. Yeah. It is important. Speaker 0
Yeah. And I can you didn't mention, but you are the oldest of three children, and I am the oldest in my family as well. So I can relate to, you know, that pressure element that you talked about to, to achieve, not that there's not pressure on younger siblings, but, I think there may be an extra element of pressure on that oldest child sometimes to perform and be a leader, set the tone for the rest of the kids and and the siblings. And, I had that, you know, you know, whether, intentional or not for my parents, it it was a lot of pressure to perform and achieve. And, and I I also had a lot of lessons learned. And and team sports, were a huge part of my upbringing as well. So I can relate to a lot of lot of what you said. So in your it sounds like your identity really is what we're getting at here. Your identity was being formed, in that sense, through team sports and achievement. And then you said tenacious, student, something like that. Is that what you said? Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, in both school and and the athletic field. There there was this understanding that from my view, I guess, at the time was that I was a little bit less than, so I need to work harder, which I wanted to work hard and, like you said, achieve. And, yeah, we could talk about, birth order and and that kind of thing, and and that that does have a lot of interesting steps to it. But but, yeah, I I realized that tenacity is an important part, but it's not all of who I am. Mhmm. And, the yeah. Well, it's well, we we can go into it further later. But, yeah, so it's something that I was learning along the way was just how much, yeah, other people putting things on you really impacts. Speaker 0
Sure. I think that's a key point that we're gonna focus on. And I I do think you also alluded to the fact that things, certain, behavioral characteristics or or personality types, can be good or bad. Right? Tenacity is generally viewed as a good thing. Right? Work ethic can be great, and you need it's necessary for success. And and, I mean, honestly, most things in life that are worth anything require a good bit of work. But it sounds like in your case, maybe that got wrapped up in, like you said, other people's views of you. And then, so dive into that more, and I I know we're gonna skip forward a little bit, and I wanna hear hear about how you decided to become a therapist and go that route. But before we get there, what do you see as, different now compared to back then? How do you view yourself differently, now than you did back then? Speaker 2
I think back then, there was a lot of understandably, as kids, we we view things as we're almost our whole being is the athlete or the the a student or, the the theater person, musician. But really so now I I just view that as part of my life that was really important. I mean, I I love some of the things I learned as an athlete, with the or as a student and growing up. But, yeah, it's not all of who I am, and it's always gonna be ever it it's kinda almost ever changing, the the different roles that we play, the different roles that we choose to play. So, that's, yeah, that that's kind of Yeah. Where I was thinking. Speaker 0
Makes sense. Okay. So and and some of the views that others were placing on you, it sounds like you've changed and no longer view yourself through that that lens. Is that true? Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, definitely. And and not to go too much into it. But, yeah, the I mean, I think what you said before too about being the oldest child, I think there's also an element. I have wonderful parents. But, yes, sometimes, I think as the oldest child and as a parent myself now, you really it it's all experimentation, I guess, to an extent. Like, the the first kid, you're really learning as a parent. So it's been a really good journey being a parent and getting to see it from that perspective. But Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Yeah. It's fine to do the best I can to offer what I can to my son or to my daughter. But Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
But, yeah, try not to put too much on them, and try to let them be more of a guide in in what's going on in their life Yeah. Is something that I really try and and embody. But I I do love that, you know, I I was given a few things to kinda focus on in my life because it gave me stability. So Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Said, Jamie, it's it's that balance of, like, you know, almost always trying to see the middle ground of it because it's yeah. Too much of even a good thing is not a good thing. Speaker 0
Not a good thing. Right. Absolutely. And I do feel like, in today's day and age, I'm all for looking at trauma and and, you know, understanding the impact that trauma has on our present day selves. Part of me feels bad for our parents sometimes because, you know, now that you're a parent of two and I I'm a parent of two and it's I think maybe we have inherently a little more empathy than we used to for for parents as well. So it's very easy for us to sit here and say, well, you know, and you weren't saying this, but but that that our parents did a bad job of putting too much pressure on us for achievement, etcetera. And it's like, well, there is no playbook, and every child's different. It's parenting is very difficult. And so, yeah, I find it, there's a balancing act there of of, you know, not trying to blame our parents. Certainly, some parents are very bad parents out there, but, it's it's it's not easy. So, okay. So through sports and, through, academics, you were the tenacious one because you were considered less than or at least you saw yourself that way. You mentioned being smaller in stature. And then I know as you progressed through school, there were there were moments where you, realized you may have, been less than or seen yourself as less than academically or as a learner. Can you touch on that for a minute? Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I I feel like I haven't ever said it out loud too much. But, but, yeah, the the the idea of being a reader, that that was a huge, like, insecurity of mine. And, I mean, I don't have a diagnosed learning disability or anything I could say, but, yeah, it just was a very tough thing growing up, feeling like I couldn't read aloud in class. And and at that time, I was in a kind of a press high pressure, private school, and, they there's just a lot of emphasis on being really, really good. So, like we're saying, I mean, it's could be parents, but it's also society or school or whatever the pressures are. So I just knew that I I you know, when I'm getting pulled out in class to go do some extra extra help Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
While it's extra and it is helpful, it's like, well, I clearly know that the other, you know, twenty Speaker 0
It's not a good sign. It's not encouraging. It's like you're you're slower than the rest of the kids is what, you Speaker 2
know Yeah. Yeah. Comes with that. And it's interesting. I mean, I I feel like that's a deficit that I know a lot of people face, and, I know we talked it for a second half, before this started. But, yeah, I mean, when I was in a group therapy class in at NYU going through my master's, it it was interesting to see just how some of these things that happen, you know, when when we're really young, five, six for me, you know, trying to learn to breathe, like, how lasting that belief can stay with us. And and sharing it in a group setting is a group of soon to be therapists. It was nice to have that empathy. But, yeah, how many people, yeah, were tier four upset, just by hearing that and not upset in the sense that they were upset for me, but I think that they really related that that that's what I took, that that it was Speaker 0
Mhmm. Yeah. Interesting. I remember reading a book by, Gay Hendricks and he talks about your upper limit problem, and it sounds similar to it's like a self imposed upper limit, you know, sounds like in some cases, maybe you had that, going on. I think we all have that in in certain aspects of our lives. So okay. How did you how and why did you determine that you wanted to be a therapist? Speaker 2
Yeah. Sure. So, yeah. So so I went from the tenacity mindset, and then the school comes to an end, as we all we all know. And, but, yeah, it was such a tough road because I I was doing an economics degree at Saint Mary's College of Maryland, and then all of a sudden, I realized after my internship, like, I don't know if I wanna like, is this what my whole rest of my life's gonna be? And there was just kind of that existential crisis of, like, I don't really like this, what I've studied. I'd like some of it, but can I see myself doing it for forever? Which I I definitely would stress is a cognitive distortion that a lot of young people think is, like, what I'm doing now and what I get into is gonna be the thing that I stay with forever, which is just not true. We're almost changing. Speaker 0
Well, especially now. In today's culture, you it's just not that way anymore. It may maybe it used to be. But, yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. Speaker 2
Go ahead. So, yeah, the it's it's ever changing. And so then I took a bike trip, and across the country, and it was inspired a lot because of, my own family had some instability that that happened when I was in when I was finishing up college, I guess, and, someone in the family had a mental health crisis, and it was it it was a struggle. So, for the family and then trying to figure out what how I could help, and, really, the bike trip was the the thing that I thought, like, oh, there's a way that I could, tangibly help, which was, at the time, I was raising money for Johns Hopkins and helping in that way. But the bike trip really was a place where, you know, you talk about adversity that there were so many times where I was facing physical adversity, going up a hill, having mishaps. I mean, I still go back to now, like, the the mishaps of, you know, a flat tire. You you know, you you're rolling around. You're you're you're rolling through your day, and then something just randomly is there. And then Mhmm. Yeah. Kinda ruins your day, it seems like, for a moment. And that was a big mindset shift for me of, like, do do I wanna be pissed at this random nail that was just in the row, or or do I wanna, laugh about it and just see it as just a silly opportunity that I can, yeah, to turn into just a way to slow down? Speaker 0
Sure. So the bike trip was after college and before you went on for your your masters. Is that right? Speaker 2
Yeah. So so that's where I was doing a lot of reflection, what I wanted to do, what kind of skills I was good at Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
Which I see myself as a good listener. Mhmm. Speaker 0
What's that? No. I'm just kidding. Speaker 2
So, yeah, I mean, the the there was there was that and then also getting to see, the progression of the issues that were going on in my family and how person that really seemed to help kind well, help guide and navigate things was the counselor, and I I really thought that that was a really beautiful thing. Speaker 0
So you where did the, did was the bike trip, a result of seeing the your family's, struggles, or was it, sounds like the bike trip itself allowed you a lot of space for reflection and a lot of, I guess, certainty in your path forward at least for the at least for the, you know, near future, came out of the bike trip. So I guess what I'm asking is, you know, was was, was the bike trip more of the result more of the result or or, more of the impetus for you to move on to be a therapist? Speaker 2
I I think it was a I I now think of things as more of a constellation. Like, there's lots of little reasons why things happen. Yeah. The the Speaker 0
the bike phrase that well. I'll be I'll call myself out. It wasn't the best question I've ever asked. But it sounds like the bike trip was helped you, was a result, you were raising money through the bike trip. Right? Speaker 2
Mhmm. Speaker 0
And that was partially because of family member struggles, but then the bike trip also allowed you the space to reflect and kind of give yourself, career guidance, if you will. Is that am I off base there? Speaker 2
You're, yeah, you're you're a hundred percent accurate. I mean, I was definitely looking to figure out what I wanted to do. There's also how I could help, my family, and then, inherently, eight hours or ten hours on a bike. And at that time, I'm sure there's lots of things you could listen to now. But at that time, it was you know, you're listening to the the breeze or the wind in your ears, and so there's a lot of time for thinking. And and I know this is about mental fitness too, but it's also the place where I grew to greatly appreciate the the power of exercise and and how, you know, exercise was such a crucial part of and and probably, almost meditative too that that you're you're on a bike. You're doing the same thing over and over again. You but but it brings you a lot of well, it bring brought me a lot of calm energy to to not mean that stress response. Speaker 0
Yeah. And I've come to appreciate partially through your help. I'll give you some some credit here. Nature and just being outside, you know, side note, you pushed me to do the white water rafting about five years ago. And, you know, in category five rapids in the upper yacht, that was amazing. So just even that three hour experience was was really fantastic. But I think with your bike trip, you combined, you know, space, like, mental space and nature being outside, struggle, adversity. There's an inherent adversity. It's not easy. You biked across the country, and then I know later you did another shorter trip, which was extremely long in in my view. Along with, you know, community, you didn't do the bike trip by yourself along with exercise, and then you're getting sunlight and vitamin d. And so, yeah, those are like you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts about health, physical health, mental health, and mental fitness. And not to say there's no such thing as, you know, real mental health challenges or or a need for medication or anything. But if you're not doing those things we just listed, you're not even giving yourself a a fighting chance. Now easier said than done if you're suffering from a serious illness. I I understand that. But, yeah, I can see why the trip was monumental, you know, experience for you. So okay. Fast forward, you you after the trip, also I wanna highlight that I love the fact that I don't love that your your family members had any kind of mental health challenges or struggles or or anything like that. But I do interview a lot of people who, you know, their career path was altered because of a personal experience or the experience of close family members. So, you know, it's all academic until it comes into your world. Right? And then it's like, okay. Now this is now you have this purpose. Not that you didn't have purpose before, John, but, you know, it's look. I know there are marriage counselors and marriage coaches who the whole reason they offer this is because their parents got divorced, and that was, you know, something close to home for them. So, I love the fact that there's that human element for you that really provides that purpose and passion for you as opposed to just reading in a book about a certain, you know, approach to cognitive therapy or whatever whatever we're talking about. But, so walk us through from the bike trip up through today as far as your own career path, and then we can get into some more actionable things that that the real estate entrepreneur might be able to apply to their mindset. Speaker 2
Sure. So so, yeah, it it I think even hearing you say that and and appreciate yeah. Your your synopsis of the bike trip for me was it it was really important, and it was probably the first place where I was choosing my purpose. Mhmm. I I I think that there is certainly spiritual elements and other things that come in that, you know, it's not just my choice. But but I I felt like up until that point, we're talking about identity. It it was a lot about, you know, how can I make others how can I think about what others need me to be versus, you know, choosing to be the person that I feel like I can be and the person that I wanna be? And so, yeah, then after the bike trip, I I took a kinda I'm I'm not some people might say because I did that bike trip that I'm risk I'm not risk averse, but I I certainly am risk averse. Mhmm. So it took a while to kinda, like, slowly step into the mental health field. I took a few classic, community college near us, then got to my I moved up to New York and New Jersey and ended up getting into NYU, which at the time, again, that that was, like, an expectation breaker. You know, I I didn't see myself as being even I was surprised that I got in, and then I was all of a sudden in class with a bunch of people that Speaker 0
Bunch of smart people. Yeah. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Speaker 0
that's awesome. I mean, congrats for that. Speaker 2
And I Speaker 0
don't know if you would touch on this, but you also served in the military. So thank you for your service. Speaker 2
Thanks. Yeah. I I was gonna say, yeah, I I took the I I I don't think I have ADHD, but I think that there's a lot that, I was doing at the time. I was because I did the Air Force Reserves, which was a tremendous experience and opportunity. And, and, yeah, thank you for your service, and you've served. And, Speaker 0
You're welcome. That's the only reason I thanked you. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It it's important to, yeah, thank ourselves. And, but yeah. And so so that was another big growth experience that I I felt like I got. Yeah. But while I was doing a full time job and Yeah. Get getting married and and doing yeah. Just getting used to the Speaker 0
the did the reserves at the same time. Right? Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0
I did I did all of that as well. It's, it's no joke. That's a lot. And then I know, you you know, your your wife has done extra academics or a really impressive program recently, so you all still had a lot on your plate. So, yeah, I I that doesn't yeah. I don't think you're ADHD either, but I agree you are you are a methodical, careful person. You don't necessarily just jump into risk immediately. So but okay. So you're in you find yourself admitted to NYU. You're in you're you're taking classes there. Tell us a little bit more about that. Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, that that really, shaped a lot of of what I understood was counseling. I but before you really get into it, you you have expectations from or thoughts from the media, from movies and stuff. And, you you know, it's the person that's gonna tell you what to do or, you know, how how are you feeling, which I do use that question. But Sure. It's a stereotypical therapist. But yeah. So I really grew to understand a lot more about people, and what I really loved was that, you know, every single person has such a vast different experience. That's what I always, like, come back to, like, why I find it so interesting. And reflecting on economics compared to psychology is is interesting because to me, economics was always, like, what is the rational question was, like, always, like, what's the rational question was, like, always like, what's the rational consumer gonna do? So, like, we're always trying to put this, like, this thought into this one rational person, and then I go from that, which I really liked, to, to now working with not irrational, but just, like, everybody has different viewpoints on things. And and, yeah, I mean, that that I did abnormal psychology. So, yeah, it's it's really, you Speaker 0
know We're all we're all a little bit crazy. Right? But no, I get what you're saying. It's and people are very complex and and unpredictable. And, yeah, if you're ever just bored with life, go study a person, right, or psychology. It's like Yeah. It's fascinating. I I mean, I I only took psych one zero one, and I remember being fascinated by the fact that you could apparently, if you smile, that can induce, you know, happiness or a feeling of happiness. And I was blown away. I was like, wait a minute. I thought the smile was just a result of happiness. And, you know, so, so, okay. So you you're pursuing your master's at NYU, and that was largely because of, you know, the family reasons along with the bike trip solidifying your your purpose, and you wanna serve others, and you're fascinated by psychology and and, people, and how they think and how they work. And, okay. So today so last year, twenty twenty three, you started your counseling service. You have a full time job, but you also have your counseling service. So you have a side hustle. I think a lot of the listeners can appreciate that. You know, so you've started your kind of side hustle very much related to your your industry, your full time industry. Talk a little bit about JW counseling, if you would. Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely. The the JW counseling was something that I thought about for a long time. And and, yeah, go go going back to I I feel like this talking this out has been is interesting too because there's there's certainly a a journey that we all take, and and I've told other clients this. But hearing you talk about psych one zero one made me reflect on I I remember in in college, I had to fill a credit, and I went to psych one zero one for the first time. I was probably twenty. And I sat in there and I for a day, and I was like, hi. What is what is this? Like, I don't connect to it. And so it was it was so funny that, you know, couple of years later and some reflection and and all this like that, that became, like, what I've really focused on. I was Speaker 0
just Yeah. Speaker 2
Confused how I would learn all that stuff. And so it I mean, I just dropped in the class. Yeah. Speaker 0
Yeah. Well, timing timing is huge in context. You know? I mean, I didn't used to appreciate history. Now it's like, see history repeating itself. But okay. So yeah. Go ahead. Speaker 2
And I touch on that because, yeah, it's important to remember timing, like you're saying. And then, like, so another part that I I really think is important for whether it's the bike trip or NYU or this counseling, is is going into it, but also almost appreciating that there's, like, a naiveness. Mhmm. I I don't even know what to call it. Like, just a part that just doesn't know Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
What you're gonna face. Like, if I, you know, went to the bike trip or this counseling endeavor thinking about all the things that I would have to face or, like, struggle through, it wouldn't be I probably wouldn't do it. So, like, working with and almost appreciating that, like, almost childlike Mhmm. I'm just gonna jump into this Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
See see how the water feels, and, you know, I can get out of it if I want. But Yeah. But, yeah, it's super important to to to make the leap. And so it it took me a while to to make that leap, and and I did. But part of what I did for that and to cushion the blow, you know, once I take the leap was, I know I mentioned the mindset before. I definitely have this idea that the stoicism or the, yeah, I I I like the idea of Spartan mindset more, which to me, that kinda means you're gonna push yourself. You're you're gonna be relentless. Mhmm. And you're gonna work really hard, but you're not really gonna reward yourself ever. Like, if you ever really let yourself reward your reward what you've been doing, then that's that's, like, boastful or it's, selfish or I mean, there's all these things that tie into it. And Mhmm. So along the way, I I I switched from that to more of a self compassionate mindset, which is based on Christian Neff's work, at University of Texas and Chris Germer, I think his name is. Just this idea that that that we're all going through something difficult at times. And it's better instead of ignoring it and pretending like it doesn't exist Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
Which is why I thought stoicism was just ignore the emotions Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
And pretend they don't exist, then self compassion teaches to notice it, acknowledge it, but also encourage yourself. So the three parts of of it are self kindness, mindfulness, so being present to what's going on with myself or you or anyone else, and then common humanity, recognizing that everybody goes through difficult things. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
So really tied together a lot for me. Mhmm. And so that that's what I've been working with, I guess, ever since I started my own business because it's it's a lot to go from a structured I mean, I know your listeners do it a lot, but, like, get going from that w two job, which seems stable Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Stable ish. Right. And that Seems stable. Speaker 0
But yeah. No. You're right. And and I it's I don't recommend it for everyone. And you're doing it in a somewhat similar fashion to how I did, which was not ripping off the Band Aid all at once. And who knows where it will go for you or me for that matter. But, yeah, some people just jump in with two feet. They just quit their quit their job and then don't have a plan. And, you're you started a side hustle, which I think is really smart, which is related to your industry, like you said. So there's not a huge element of risk there, I'd say, from a from a business or income standpoint. And I love that. So okay. So twenty twenty three, you started the counseling practice, and you're right. It does, though, take you've gotta take action. It's, like, still a mindset shift to take the action. Okay. So and and I'm jumping around a little bit here, but the self compassion, I guess, where I get hung up or and maybe some listeners do, you know, up I probably need more self compassion. Not not saying I don't, but does that mean you just you don't have standards and you you just forgive yourself and and you just let yourself slide? How does how does that work? Speaker 2
Yeah. That's a good that's a good question. I remember I was in my internship, and when I was just learning about this, I sent an email to I believe it was Chris Germer, who, again, is working with Kristen Neff on this whole idea. And, that was a risk in itself. Like, oh, I'm just gonna email this this person that seems like they know what they're doing. And Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
And, yeah, he he responded with a really good point because, yeah, growing up with that mindset of, like that if you don't keep pushing yourself Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Then then you're gonna like, what's moving you forward? Right. Exactly. I I think of it like a like a really good friend. I know we talked offline about this too. But, like, you know, a really good friend would not enable you. They would not just kinda sit there and be like, Jamie, that's that's great. Like, that that, you know, something terrible has happened, and you're you you know, that a a really good friend would be empathetic but also help empower you. Yeah. And and that's really what I I think of is really important. And so much comes out about decision making comes down to empowerment. You know, how can we empower ourselves to make that leap, whether it's with the naivete of of the the younger version of ourselves or, you know, with that, but also, yeah, coming from a place of, okay. It's the right time, and you could do it. So finding that empowerment was a big part of the self compassion. What that looks like on a day to day basis is, yeah, I'm I'm definitely checking in with myself a lot more. What that means too is, you know, I'll notice and try name, like, okay. Before this podcast, I'm feeling some anxiety. I'm feeling some nervousness. Noticing the sensations maybe in my stomach, my chest, my heart beating, acknowledging that those things are happening, but also telling myself, you know, I can get through it. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Being that encouraging coaching kind of voice versus the hardcore drill sergeant that I thought Yeah. Was gonna help me. Yeah. That's been a big help. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
Well me. Yeah. Speaker 0
If you didn't have any nervousness, I think I'm I think this is your first podcast. You know, that would mean to me that you just probably just didn't care enough. You know? So it's a good thing that you've got a little bit of energy and excitement and nervousness. You know, so I I don't think stress is bad in that in that sense. Just my, you know, I think stress gets a bad bad rap these days. But but how do you reconcile? And as we as we move toward the end of the episode here, I I have more rapid fire questions. But how do you reconcile you know, I guess it's a rephrasing of the same question from before. You know, somebody like Michael Jordan, he looked he's just, like, super driven or at least was and and was the best basketball player ever to to play. No controversy there. But, you know, wouldn't couldn't you argue that he wouldn't have impacted as many people in a positive way if he'd maybe had more self compassion, and, you know, wouldn't have given as much to the world. And, I mean, it's just incredible what he what he accomplished. And, how do you reconcile those those two things? Speaker 2
I think, I think being able to be okay with yourself while you're going through difficult things is really what self compassion is built on. But it it's interesting. Before the podcast started, I was thinking about, I thought about a, person that helped Michael Jordan among others, and Kobe Bryant, and his name is George Monford. And he was he he I don't remember his official title from the Bulls, but he was in, The Last Dance, and and you can see him there. But he he really was kind of that thoughtful mindfulness teaching person that Speaker 0
Mindfulness and performance expert is what Google says. Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So he and he has his own adversity and abundance. And, and, yeah, I would definitely recommend to check his stuff out. But I think it's coming back to, you know, just being in the present is is super important. And I know in the last dance that that's something that's sticking out in my mind right now is that we talked about how how he was always present. He was always in the moment. And Sure. And it's really coming back to, like, Viktor Frankl or any of these people that are are really about, you know, finding choice. You know, in any situation, we do have choices. And, you know, when we're more present, like, Gordon was, you know, he can make that shot. Speaker 0
And Speaker 2
and did he think about all that before he made the shot? No. But he I mean, there's an element there where it's less about to me, it seems like it's less about being the the drill sergeant and more how can I enable myself to be as present as I can Speaker 0
Mhmm? Speaker 2
So I can make the choice. Because, you know, so many times we feel like it's either I can either do a or b or I only have or I have no options. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Right. We always have an option, and that's Victor Frankel says, you know, our last freedom is is really to choose the attitude that we want. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
And he's coming from a concentration camp in Germany. So, like Speaker 0
serious adversity. Right? So, no, that's a great answer with with, about Jordan because so he did have a performance and mindset or mindfulness coach or therapist, whatever. And so it's not like he didn't rely on someone like you for to better his performance. And, also, what comes to mind for me is Jordan must have had some self compassion because they say about great athletes, you need to be able to kind of have a very short memory, you know, in the middle of the game, getting to your point about being present. If he missed five shots in a row, he's forgotten about those, and he takes that six shot and hits it, because he's present. So if he was overly critical, self critical, he wouldn't have been as good as he was. So, that's that's a great great answer. So before we move on to the rapid fire questions, JW counseling, who's your kind of ideal client, or who are you looking to work with? Speaker 2
Yeah. Sure. I mean, I I think that that's always developing and changing. But right now, it's individuals, couples, and and families. I have a lot of experience with individuals and family, in the public sector, but also yeah. So so I'm bringing that. And then couples is something I'm I'm learn I've been learning about for a long time ever since NYU, and, so so that's a new frontier, I guess, that I'm thinking thinking and growing, in my in my abilities with, but I do feel confident with with that. So all those, I guess I guess, topic wise, you know, anxiety, depression, ADHD, PTSD, so reworking traumas. But like you said, Jamie, and and I'm I'm really of the opinion that everybody whether we wanna call it a trauma, like, there's always impactful things that happen in everyone's life that, you know, in my in our profession, sometimes, it's called a capital t trauma. Like, just because you don't have a capital t trauma being like, you know, I survived an earthquake or something. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
Catastrophic doesn't mean that that we can't, like, rework some of those beliefs that come from Mhmm. From yeah, those ones. So Speaker 0
And you work in with in person as well as online, and I noticed, you have the walk and talk option as well. How would you say you separate yourself from other all the other therapists out there? Speaker 2
Mhmm. Speaker 0
What's your how's your approach unique? Speaker 2
My approach is unique. I I the walk and talk is a newer thing, and it's certainly grown in, from COVID. May maybe Speaker 0
So it's a mask. We're wearing masks and walking. I'm just kidding. Speaker 2
No. But and and that comes from also, yeah, my my roots of the bike trip and knowing that how important, like you said, nature, exercise. Also, there's something about walking because you don't have to see eye to eye. Like, there's an element there where it's really comforting. And it's like you're Speaker 0
you're side by side on the journey together kinda thing. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Side by side on a journey. Also, not to get too into the science. But, yeah, when you're looking specifically or directly into someone else's eyes, like, eye contact can be feel very uncomfortable even when we're sharing something vulnerable. So, that's that's something I think I separate myself with. Being that energetic, kind, and compassionate person that's always gonna see the the, cherishing the divine within, that that's the Catholic charity's view. But something that I really remember and something that I I take from a lot of the different Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Therapy roots that that I listen to. That that we all have inner wisdom to guide us, that we all have, the sense of self or soul or whatever we wanna call it. So, yeah, I mean, that that's always what I'm coming back to is that I I really I love what I do, and, I really enjoy working with people and the rich tapestry of Yeah. Whatever's going on with. Well, Speaker 0
like I like we highlighted, you've had personal your own personal trauma as well as, you know, very, real family struggles. And so you have that that drive from that pain that's been experienced, and then you wanna help others deal with similar situations. You know? So I I think that's huge as well. Alright. You ready for some rapid fire questions? We're almost out of time. Speaker 2
I'll do my best. Yeah. Speaker 0
And I just wanna say you are an awesome listener as well as somebody who takes action and kinda have those really good blend of I'll just say, you know, masculine and feminine traits in a sense where it's like, you're a hardcore like, when you work out, it's like, you're not messing around. You know? So you're not you're not afraid of hard work. Like you said, tenacious, but then sort of that more, we'll say, passive, but it's really active listening, which I would argue most therapists probably don't have such an awesome blend of that those skills. So, alright. Nice. If you could have coffee with any historical figure or a bourbon, if you prefer, who would who would you choose? Speaker 2
I guess I have an Irish coffee with Theodore Roosevelt, first person to Speaker 0
come. Nice. If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it? Speaker 2
It's funny. Yeah. That that puts a lot of responsibility on me. Like, I I feel like I would I would certainly, do to try the tithing idea, get giving away a certain amount. Growing the JW counseling, would be something else. Also, an offshoot. I know you've had another, guest on here, but starting a bike trip business, or bicycle trip Yeah. Business will be another element, more more of a wellness and less therapy direct. But yeah. So so those were things that come to mind. Speaker 0
Awesome. Yeah. How about a book or two that you could recommend for my listener? Speaker 2
A book or two. I reference Viktor Frankl. People have to read my answers for me. I mean, it's such a, Speaker 0
Yeah. You Even though it's You may have, mentioned that one to me once or two hundred times. Speaker 2
Yeah. So there there's so much to gain from from his experience and and, yeah, so so many answers for meaning, and and it applies to everybody. It's not just, men. I guess another one that I'm reading right now, is get out of my sorry. I'm just looking at it now. Get out of your mind and into your life. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
It's about acceptance and commitment therapy. So working with our cognitions and how we grew to understand our own thinking. So, like, how can we understand our thinking and how can we change it to Awesome. Make it more helpful. Speaker 0
What's a what's a struggle that you're facing in your business right now? Speaker 2
Even with the jumping in, like like I said, and the empowerment, there's still strong avoidances sometimes to, like, base some of those things that even objectively, sometimes you you say them aloud, and you're like, why am I avoiding that? Like, that insurance company to to get, credentialed or something. Like Mhmm. I don't know why, but but but I know I'll get I'll get there. So yeah. Again, being compassionate. Speaker 0
Yeah. Well, it sounds like this has been therapeutic for you, so I'll I'll invoice you after this. Right. So so, if you can recap, and we're almost out of town time here. But so for the the listeners, say the real estate entrepreneur, I know you're not necessarily a real estate entrepreneur, but you are an entrepreneur, and you deal heavily with mental health and mental fitness. One or two takeaways or kind of steps for the real estate entrepreneur out there, what would you say that it that those would be? Speaker 2
Yeah. I think I think a lot of it can be applicable to decision making. You know, how do we come from that, and where do we make good decisions? Is it out of a scarcity, fear based mindset, or is it from a it doesn't always have to be compassion, but a place of real wisdom and and and empowerment to to make the decisions that we need to make. So, I mean, whether that's making a counseling, company or it's buying another house or, and and I know we've talked a lot about bigger pockets throughout the years. So, I mean, I I always really liked those those, podcasts with Brandon talking about, just ways to to make wise decisions Sure. Speaker 0
From mindset Speaker 2
and health. Absolutely. Mindset. Yeah. Speaker 0
I love that. From adversity to abundance from a mind mindset standpoint. Right? Awesome. What's one thing that's controversial in in the therapy world that you see today? Speaker 2
The type of therapy that I am really getting into is internal family systems, and the, Frank Anderson and Richard well, Richard Schwartz is the founder, and his his big thing is that there's no bad parts of us. So while that might not seem controversial, you know, you talk to someone that is, quote, unquote, an alcoholic. Mhmm. Yeah. That quickly becomes, well, that's that's not a good part of me Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
A part that drinks. But so, understanding that we all have parts that might be, difficult to relate to, that we might hate about ourselves Mhmm. That that that's really at the core. We're trying to change the change the, connection that we have or relationship through those parts. But certainly controversial to say that that there's no bad parts when a lot of mental health is based on getting rid of a symptom. But, really, we're trying Speaker 0
Out with the bad and with the good. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. From dumb and dumber. Alright. John Windsor, JW Counseling. We are out of time. I know you you and I both have another call to hop on here. So thank you so much for taking your time, and sharing your story as well as just your, you know, the the changes you've made in your own, view of yourself introducing more self compassion, but also the encouragement to continue that growth along that growth path. And and and that doesn't mean self compassion doesn't mean limiting yourself. It, it it actually can be very much in support of growth and serving others. And, kudos to you for starting your own business, and I highly recommend the listener. If you wanna if you need a a quality therapist, I definitely recommend you reach out to to John for sure. So, John, any, words of of wisdom as we sign off? Speaker 2
Thank you so much, Jamie, and I I appreciate you and and the opportunity and the time. And, yeah, it's it's been wonderful. So thanks. Speaker 0
Awesome. And to the listener, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire. 
