From Divorce and Financial Insecurity to a Multimillion-Dollar Investment Company with CPA Mark Livingston
Episode Details
Transcript
At 48, Mark Livingston found himself divorced with very little money to his name and nothing saved up for his kids. It was a wake-up call that he couldn’t rely on traditional savings vehicles and Wall Street to prepare him for retirement and secure a good life for his family. Instead of letting his setbacks define him, Mark used his 35 years of experience as a corporate executive and CPA to turn his life around.
After investing in land flipping and realizing that it takes too much of his time, he founded Match Real Assets - an investment management company that helps investors find lucrative passive and high-performing real asset investment deals. He’s creating opportunities for others that he previously needed himself.
His latest project involves extracting helium from natural gas by purchasing an operational natural gas field and adding value through the use of advanced helium-extracting technology. With his extensive knowledge of financial regulations and a strategic, long-term approach to investing, Mark has proven that it's never too late to start building a better future.
Adversities Mark had to overcome:
- Divorce
- Low net worth
- Nothing saved up for his kids or his retirement
- Tried to buy a business, but lost the deal
- Working too much
Abundance Mark created:
- Rediscovered love and remarried
- Buying and selling parcels of land
- Scaling his land investing business
- Starting an investment management company
Lessons from Mark’s adversities
- Seek out entrepreneurs and learn from them
- Don’t live in a box someone else created for you, explore what you want to explore
- Coaching can change your life and help you discover what you’re meant to do
Links
To invest with Mark Livingston, shoot an email to: abundance@matchrealassetpartners.com
Books and Resources
Multiple Streams of Income by Robert Allen
Connect with Mark Livingston:
WEBSITE: https://marklivingston.me/
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markalivingston/
CONTACT: abundance@matchrealassetpartners.com
Haven Financial:
https://www.myfinancialhaven.com/jamiebateman/
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Speaker 1
00:00
Hey everyone. This is Jamie Bateman with the form adversity, to abundance podcast and you're going to love this episode. It is with Mark Livingston of match. Real asset Partners Mark is a corporate executive and CPA with over 35 years of professional experience, and so he's got that accounting background, understand kind of analysis and number crunching but unfortunately he went through a painful divorce years ago. And kind of had to do a reset. And what do you realize during that period of time was that he hadn't saved much at all with for his, his kids college? Education is own future Etc. And so in 2015, Mark started investing outside of Wall Street. And, you know, we get into the specifics on how he went about educated himself and finding Partners in different. Olds to invest with. And he now has a big project going on at the raising capital for, which is pretty exciting, but some of the things that really stood out, to me, from this episode were that Mark continuously looked toward his strengths and worked off of his experience and his strengths and secondly Really takes the he takes his strategic long-term approach to things. And then the fact that, you know, He approaches things as a team sport, so he's constantly working to build relationships and approach things from a long-term relationship standpoint and partner with experienced, operators partner with others who are experts in things he's not and I just love it the very practical and strategic approach that he takes and I think this is going to be a really relatable episode for a lot of people. A lot of people struggle with divorce, unfortunately. We and lack of planning, especially maybe in your 30s and 40s and, you know, and maybe you're looking for something outside of Wall Street, to invest in. So, marks, episode is very good. He's a smart guys. It's very, he's very well. Thought out his actions are I should say, and, you know. So they have got some very super exciting projects going on. And that's, that are pretty unique to this way. So, I hope you enjoy it. Thanks.
Speaker 2
02:36
Inspiring stories of real people. Overcoming incredible odds to live life to the fullest. We are all guaranteed to face. Hardships, how will we handle the adversity? Join us to be moved by every day, people who have turned poverty into prosperity and weakness into wealth Be Inspired as these relatable Heroes, get vulnerable and former counterintelligence investigator Jamie Bateman puts his interviewing skills to the test. Restore your faith in humanity as you experience. True Cinderella stories of average people turning surreal struggle and deep despair into booming, businesses and financial Fortune. Take ownership of the life. You are destined to live and turn your adversity into abundance. All right, here's the deal. You work hard for your money. Isn't it about time you put your money to work for you. If you are an accredited investor check out Labrador lending.com, our integrity income fund provides monthly cash flow from an investment backed by hard. Physical real estate.
Speaker 1
03:46
Our income fund which is uncorrelated to publicly traded stocks and bonds invests. In first lien, mortgage notes Diversified by geography property value and borrower type. So you're not investing in one project. You're investing in a diversified portfolio of first lien mortgage notes. Our integrity income fund aims to pay its investors monthly distributions at a preferred rate of return of 8% annually. Possibly, the best part though, the fun showcases, a short 12-month commitment. So you can invest your Capital today and have access to that capital in one year. Check it out today. Labrador Lending.com Welcome everybody, to another episode of the form adversity, to abundance podcast. I am your host Jamie Bateman. And today, I am thrilled to have a new friend of mine acquaintances and friend, Mark Livingston on the show with us. Mark, is the CEO and founder of match real asset Partners Mark, how are you doing today, doing well, you know, it's end of the year here, early next year, thinking about goals and all that. So this is a good time. Lutely, have it enjoyed this week to a little bit so you know, slower in general, get caught up on some things but not grind quite as much myself. But yeah, we're recording on December 30th. So it's a fun time of year to look back but then also look ahead now you're in, you're in Texas, is that right? That's correct in Houston. Texas. Nice. What's that? What's the weather? Like right now it's good. Good. We're back up in the 60s and have some nice weather here for a few days. After almost freezing to death for us anyway, around Christmas time. It's all relative. I guess we did in Maryland. Here, we got, we did get into the single digits for a few days there. But so now for the listener out there, who are you, what are you up to today and why should we listen to you? Well, most of my career is a corporate career. I have a degree in accounting. I am a CPA over the last 37 years or so work. I have worked in various audit team and corporate accounting positions. Today my I still have a full-time position. I am the chief accounting officer at a public company and you can look that up on LinkedIn, but this is not about that. But I still do that. But what does that mean? That means I am responsible for all of the accounting, all the tax compliance, all the tax strategy financial analysis, all the financial reporting to the public for that company. And in fact, I signed the 10K that gets filed with the SEC. So, I am well aware of staying in compliance with financial regulation and all that. But although I am a CPA, I don't want people to think I am A tax expert because I don't I am not down in the details of the tax. I didn't come up next Apartments so yeah it is. It is really counting. It is kind of, you know, I think we do this with a lot of professions a lot of Industries, we all think. Oh CPA, he knows everything about taxes and, you know, I have my CPA is fantastic, but I have thrown so many things at him that he's never dealt before dealt with before, and he's got to check with his tax partner or whatever else and doesn't I mean, he's not an expert in what he does, but yeah, there's so many nuances within every industry. It's impossible, especially with the tax code being so generous, but that's a different topic for another day. So now, before we jump back into your backstory, As far as outside of your profession. What are you, what are you focused on today? So I do have a company match. Real asset Partners is the brand that I use and I use it to invest for myself separate from the traditional Wall Street methods. And I also help others invest in those types of assets as well. God had. Now, I am really excited to dive in To that in a little bit here. You know, I run a couple different mortgage, note funds. And you know, I hadn't really few years ago before I jumped into kind of starting funds and things like that. I hadn't really ever considered. I think more of the model that you're practicing right now. So there's a lot of work to being an operator. And, so I think some of, you know, I think there's something Thing appealing about how you have it set up. So I am very personally excited to jump into that. But before we get there, I know you and I met at a mastermind in Scottsdale and you were with wealth without Wall Street guys. And that our Mastermind group that we're in, and you had some copies of a book that I took home one copy and I promptly read it and promptly reached out to you and said, hey, you'd make a great guest on my show from adversity, to abundance. So we were chatting briefly before this about that. And, and also, thank you, because I have gotten several other guests from that book, which have been great. But you know, let us jump back to kind of the low point for you. And then we will take it from there. Sure. So, in 2011, I got divorced and with my first wife, we have been married a really long time. We had kids that were entering their teenage years, I was 48 years old. The real low point for me was when I really kind of sat down in my new house And kind of took stock of where I was and realized. On the financial side, what I realized was that I really had a lack complete, lack of investment, in preparing for retirement and preparing for a college education, for our kids, excuse me? So, That was what really weighed on me the most because I just felt like, how did we get to this point, you know, so really late in your career? You know, now that's been a while for me, but it was that set the scene a little bit. So, you have how many kids do you have? I have two kids. So one was a freshman in high school. One was in Middle School? A boy and a girl. Earl. So, you know that age when they're, they're coming into their own and actually relates the vulnerabilities, with their parents, you know? Sure. Now I mean, I can, I can personally relate. I have got two kids, my daughter is in 10th Grade and my son is in middle school, and I will be 47 next week, so, and marriage is not easy. So, and I am sure, unfortunately I am sure a lot of listeners, a lot of our listener base. I am sure our listener can relate to having gone through a divorce or something similar to that. So obviously there's, you know, all kinds of emotional, trauma, and relationship, pain, and all that stuff. And obviously the point of our podcast here is not to dwell on that but that's very real and I do appreciate you know at least sharing that was there. And then I guess just, and I am then we will get to the financial planning piece of it. But what else can you add to kind of from a human standpoint from an emotional standpoint? What was going through your mind at that point? Well you know being an accountant, I knew I had to do something question was where to start? Sure. You know I think the marriage was slowly coming apart for quite a little while, so I think I wasn't it wasn't a surprise when it happened so you know I don't think there was as much emotional baggage there Got it was really more worried about if I really want to you know, retire when I am 60 or something like that. Sure how in the heck am I going to be able to do that and right between then? And now kids going to college which is not cheap, you know, all that. So that was really more the emotional side of it for me around that period of time. So when you were just correct me if I am wrong but you're making decent money from your salary. Valerie, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean those the good thing is I had a good job. So that wasn't really a problem. It was just, you know, the net worth is savings, was basically non-existent gotcha, and you didn't have 529s or any kind of plan. I am not trying to beat you up here. And I know that if any of that, I mean, you know, Russ and Joey would say, hey, that's a good thing, right? She didn't have that. But you just hadn't done much in regard to planning ahead. Again, I think a lot of people can relate. I am not trying to, you know, place blame or anything, got it. So, so how did you go about addressing the problem? Well, really, I started just I think talking to people that I worked with and I think what really started me on the journey that I ended up on was one of my co-workers recommended a book by Robert Allen, It's called multiple streams of income. Yep. And that just completely opened my mind to the fact that oh, I don't have to have, you know, just saving Ian's to retire. You can actually have all these other little streams of income. You can create that are kind of like little businesses, you know. Yeah. So from there, you know, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. And then, you know, there's a ton of books that everybody starts following and really started on that journey of just educating myself, you know? Yeah. So that's what really started. It sure. Yeah, I got the recall I ordered and it was for me a lot of money. Time was I think all the same big really thick DVD, you know, set of the that the Robert Allen book on audio version. So I listen to all that and of course, read Rich, Dad, Poor Dad as well. So yeah, it's amazing. We just, you know, it makes sense that you're when you're in your 40s, most people, you know, they, they're they don't have time to think about the big picture stuff. Before planning ahead, there they have gotten kids, they have got a job, they have got, you know, you have got probably a commute at the time and I know for me it was like, 35 to 40 early 40s. I kind of what just happened. You know, I don't even know exactly. I don't even remember so but now, so you're starting to realize it. Okay, the traditional way of just you know, for 1K and I have a job, I put everything into my savings into a 401k, there's more there, you have more options. You can think outside the box think outside of Wall Street. So then as you educated yourself, what actionable steps? Did you take after that? Yeah, so also I should say. During this time I did meet a woman that I fell in love with, and we did get married. And she fully supported me looking outside the traditional world of Wall Street, right? Which is interesting because their father was a stockbroker or what, you know. But you know, I talk to her all the time and so in 2015 is, when I formed my first business, plan and created an LLC, you know, and she fully supported me on that, which was super helpful. I sure haven't support, but I started attending meetups and then grew into listening to other podcasts. I started talking to various coaches as we know, there's a lot out there and I worked with a couple didn't really connect. So it didn't really work, you know, but I think the learning for me was just keep trying, keep listening. And I know, you know this person because he's part of our Mastermind but I finally got connected through listening to it. On cast. But the lamb geek. Mark Podolski. Yep. And really started doing the land investing myself and that was really the thing that I did first get traction. Yeah, well, and I am actually supposed to be on Mark show, but he realized he was in, he's in South Africa, I guess? Right now. And he said, how did you get on my calendar? I said, well, you were. That's the first day you were available in the next two months, so I booked it. But anyway, Mark was on our show, and we talked a lot about his, the 2008 crash and, you know, how he had his identity was pretty wrapped up in his net worth. But that's a, I recommend the listener. Go back and listen to that one. That was a really good one. But, so I imagine, you know, it's all fine and dandy to read these books and listen to podcasts. And certainly, I recommend that, but it's not probably until you see that first maybe deposit and Back to you that it's kind of becomes real. Is that fair to say? Yeah, totally. Fair to say, I still remember the first piece of land. I sold, you know, as a small parcel but I believe I spent like six hundred fifty dollars on a parcel of land. I couldn't believe you buy land so cheap but then I sold it just within a couple of months for over 5 grand. Yeah wow. And, so I was kind of hoping Hooked, you know, is like oh my gosh is actually works, you know? Yeah, that's awesome. You know that's not going to do that one deal is not going to change your no life but it'it's the mindset and you realize, wait a minute. I can do this once I can do it a hundred times. Yeah. And I think actually think the biggest thing I learned there was that coaching is super helpful and harmless strong believer in education and just talk to other people in from other people, you know, and absolutely always somebody who's done what you're trying to do, you know? And I understand the time we're not trying to recreate the wheel. We're just trying to do something. Somebody else has done, I love that mindset. That personally because, you know, I am not trying to be Elon Musk. There's, you know, that's it. But absolutely why. Why reinvent the wheel may be tweaked? It slightly, yeah, if you find a better way or something, but too much work and there Has a proven track record among people who have done this before. So couldn't agree more. So did you then decide to kind of double down on the land, flipping business, or how did you approach things? So I think what really happened for me was also a what I should say is at about the same time that I was starting the land business. I worked with a couple other guys to try to just buy a business and it's okay. Business was in the oil and gas sector. And that was hugely learning to we say we failed. It was a bidding process, and we basically were the second highest bidder, but we couldn't get our bid up higher than that based on what we're doing. So we learned a ton from that and that's led to a lot of other stuff that I am working on right now and that was years and years ago. So there's experience there. But, you know, once that happened, I really do have into the land business and It was doing that business, you know, buying and selling land. Finding virtual assistants to help me all that kind of stuff for really a couple of years. And then I attended another conference by another group, and they're really changed my mindset. I think I was already open to something different. Because what I was learning about the land business, was that I really like the business itself, I just didn't like operating the business. Myself, sure, I wanted somebody else to do it and I knew I was already starting to invest with other guys who were better at it than me and finding that work just as well. And so as already in this mindset of being an investor in a businesses that worked or Investments, that worked sure, partnering with people and just learning to partner with people and, you know, I was, you know, so it's kind of that was going up while I was kind of on the little bit on the downswing with land only because I just didn't like, managing the business itself, you know. And I was, so I was learning a little bit about myself. Sure, I think you there's a lot there that you just that, I think for the listeners is quite valuable. It's very easy to gloss over the deal, the oil and gas business that you didn't require an act. You know, for us it's very easy to almost act like that didn't happen but I think that's huge. And then like you said, learning a lot more about yourself, through all of these this entire process. That's critical. So then too bad you didn't think of the done-for-you model like breasts and Joey right well and actually I think about that time. Mark, Podolski was starting to put to that deal together. Got it. But it was already having success investing with other guys who were doing it and I didn't feel like I needed to do his done. For you deal. Sure. Except I am so and in fact today I still have a lot of those land Partners. In fact, I am still trying to extricate myself from all of the work yesterday was doing a ton of accounting support for my land Investments for gotcha. Putting together, you know, stuff for my bookkeeper, so we can wrap up year-end accounting and move on to tax reporting. But some you know you always have to do a little bit of They really something you know. And so it also keeps you connected to the business. So you haven't totally back yourself out so you don't even know what's going on. Yeah that's a really good point. I am switching bookkeeping teams right now and I get very frustrated with books in general. We deal with it, you know, every month and just you know, because it's could be real pain. But yeah, I am trying to continue to look at it like that. Now this is an important touch point for me to stay plugged into And that's what it's all about, right? You're trying to make money, exactly. So, okay, so you're still somewhat involved currently with the land business. But what other types of Deals? Were you getting into with outside of the land business? Well, it started with that conference. I went to, so I was following the real estate guys, who haven't cast pretty Island Real Estate podcast. And, so I went to one of their events called secrets of successful syndication, okay? And that was hugely eye-opening for me, because as I said, I was already an investor with other land. Guys. And that whole conference was about how to raise money for your deals with other investors who just want to be passive investors. And once I had seen that it really opened up my eyes to how easy it was to do that. If you just know what you got to do and my accounting background in finance background, kind of put me in that spot. As I do, I get all this financial strategy. That's the easy part. For me, that's maybe where I should use my expertise and partner with people who are really good on the real estate side, you know, more other types of Investments, you know? Sure. And also maybe the marketing side. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a marketing piece to. Yeah. So not I think that's fantastic. To is your again learning more about yourself through this process. Just intentionally deciding to focus. Is on your strengths, you know what's kind of whether that be experienced and or just, you know, god-given strengths and then you're not completely abdicating their your weaknesses are but you're partnering with people who are very good with that those types of skill sets. And so having, I love that, it's essentially a team sport, Okay? So and then, where did it go from there? Well, and I like that you said a team sport. I think I knew that all along and that's why I have the word Partners. In the name of my company is because I always envisioned partnering with people and even in my corporate job. I am constantly looking for people that fit in the team, the right way. Well, speak to that briefly if you would for, you know, just how to find, you know, a good partner what? Do you what do you look for in a good partnership? I am still learning. But I think the, the first thing that I have learned is that when you have a group of people that have a diversity of knowledge, A diversity of experiences, even a diversity of where they grew up, and how they look at they, how they were raised. But yet they all have The ability to be open-minded and respect everybody else on the team for their ideas. The team is always going to create better Solutions than any one of those individuals because you're bringing so many different ideas together to Think Through from different angles and that's where I have always found the best teams I have ever had in the corporate world. And that's what I think. I have always envisioned for my own company. Makes a lot of sense, I think. Our culture and the world today could use a little bit more of that mindset. So, that's great. So how have you along the way? Had any trouble with regard to Partnerships or has it gone fairly? Well, there's been a couple times when I have started to partner with somebody because we had, I think what was a good idea. And then over time, it just either, either me, I am not going to say, I am not, you know, couple bowls. Sometimes I didn't do what I needed to do. Sometimes the partner didn't do what they needed to do. But we just eventually what we refer to as we did, what we thought was a good idea. Maybe our chemistry did stin work, and we didn't partner well and, and, you know, we just parted ways and it was, it was all amicable. So, no hard feelings. So, I haven't had any bad breakups. But it's just learning, you know that, hey, maybe we can work together. Maybe we can't, you know, you got to get to know people but back to your, I think one of your earlier questions. I think I have ruled that I have had for quite a while now is I don't want to invest with somebody if I haven't gotten to know them for about a year, that's what a partner with somebody. If I haven't gotten to know him for about, you know, you give a year's time, you can learn a lot of things about people and sure. What date did we meet in Scottsdale? Pardon what date did we meet in? Scottsdale has been three months ago, so I don't have a problem if some people, you know. The now invest with me, feel like they just want to keep asking me questions and wait, I know, there's, there's a learning process and there's a comfortability in a trust process that people have to go through high. Indeed, I go through it, you know, so absolutely. No. I have a very recent example of that. It's not really for a partnership per se, but someone who's Stood in my mortgage, note fund, and he was on my podcast, but that was about it, you know? So he's, he emailed me yesterday, and he said you seem like a good guy. I really enjoyed our chat but how do people check out fund managers and, you know, so I gave him a whole lot of ideas and for me really, it comes down to here's here're some references to talk to Have them give you other references which I used in my former life. We used to call developed leads but check out my reputation, doesn't mean that I am perfect or can't lose money for you, frankly, because there's always risk, right? But there are lots of ways to and you absolutely should research your operator thoroughly and think that's personally is probably more important than research. The deal itself, but that's a for another day. So I am glad you haven't had too many major bumps in the road with regard to Partnerships. And so back to kind of the more, you know, Family, Focus, how was your personal life changing as you started to take action with these Investments? I think the biggest challenge was putting in extra time, trying to find and the right balance. We're still had time for my kids who were, you know, as I was doing this, they're going through high school starting to go to college, one of them decide to go out of state you know? And so there's all those issues with okay, how do I still continue to find time for them? Because I am not only working a full-time job. I am trying to find time for this business, you know, is interesting business. And also for my wife, you know, we were still newly married, sometimes I put in too many hours, you know working, and she's like I never see anymore. What you know what happened here? You know, because, you know because her she got to know me when I had a job. I basically, I kind of changed paths a little bit in the corporate world, which created, you know, extra to learning and a lot more hours at work. Work to at the same time that I was starting to try to crank up on an investing business. So both of them were having hours to my day at the same time who, and she was like he used to have all kinds of time for me, you know, and now you don't and what's going on. And so you sometimes know you have to take a step back and make sure you really what's really important, you know, and the people and the relationships are always going to be the most important. You know, I can always work longer. By that, I mean, you know, postpone any type of sort of retirement, you know, that kind of thing. So, you know, but now is always important with relationships. You know if you want to especially, you know, when you're building one with a new spouse, you know. Yeah. It's very happy. It's really like that. It's won't spend too much time on this but it's it doesn't sell well to talk about nuances and it depends on and all this. This, but there is a season to buckle down and just focus on your work. And frankly, not put as much effort into, you know, your relationships in my opinion, right? And then things change. And so, that's okay. Yeah. So, but keeping, you know, the main thing which is really the relationships is key. So it's hard, you know, too easy for us to talk about it on that on this. But it's when you're in it, it's difficult. So that's a lot to juggle. So, and then how did that go from there? How did things grow on the investment side? And how did that affect your family life? Well, I think the biggest thing I learned that I took from my corporate experience, was find people that you can pay to get work done for you. You don't really have to do everything and that's probably how I moved up as well as I have in the corporate world is that I, you know, I one of the things I learned when I was working, is you work with some people that manage people, and they don't want to give them too much work because they're like, well, what if they get better than me, and they take my job away, but I always had the opposite view, was I want to give them everything they can because I want them to be successful. I want them to like what they're doing, and they want to get ahead. I am happy to help them. Get ahead. All it really does, is it makes me look better because my team is getting more work done and better work done and hopefully that helps me to and it has it played out that way, and so I have you know, I guess I like your podcast, I have an abundance mentality when it comes to success, you know. And I believe that everybody together can help raise the whole group, you know? Absolutely. And so, I am always happy to, you know, help the people who helped me, you know, and I don't mean that in a financial way. I mean that in a, you know, you're doing work for me. I am happy to if you want to keep pursuing your career or your goals, or your business. I am happy to help you. Get ahead to, you know, in whatever way that I can. I love that instead of approaching it like a form a scarcity year based. And set your approach in from an adult definitely. Yeah, ultimately that helps you with your time management because you're asking off work to them and letting them do it and get that experience and that works in the investing business to, you know, there's a want to understand everything that's going on. I don't necessarily want to do everything that happened, and I am happy to pay some people that want a job that want to learn, you know, to let them dig that stuff for me. Well, and again, you're focusing on your experience, your strength from your corporate experience, your corporate career path and taking that to your investing side. So not entirely Reinventing yourself to go be this passive investor and I yeah, I think this is a really, you know, and it gets to lots of nuances but that's, that's a, that's very good. You're looking at your strengths and focusing on those And applying that your experience and skills to the new thing. So, So then from just from you know from the say 2015 through today how has match real asset Partners changed. So now what's really changed was when I went to that secrets of successful syndication that was a pivot point for me and I started getting out of the land business. Other than investing with other successful and business. People land flippers, let us call them. You know, whatever you want to call them, still do that. And what I did with natural asset Partners is I evolved it more into an investment management company. Not one that owns specific Investments. Like a, don't think of it like a mutual fund, but think of it, like a sponsor for Investments and originally, you know I was constantly on the track of only thing about real estate, type things single-family housing multifamily self-storage you know all the different types of real estate but There was a key point in the process where I started thinking about. Okay, if I am going to help other investors to invest in these deals to, who do I relate to the most? It's probably peopled who work in the corporate world like idea. Sure. And what I learned by actually delving into the tax code a little bit, is that for people who have a full-time job you cannot be a real estate professional. Therefore, Any real estate you invest in, including getting the depreciation benefits of real estate and all those cannot help you with your W2 income. Yeah I did. Hi s active versus passive right. There's a Code section 469 called the passive loss rules, and they're mainly talking about they directly talk about the Lost pieces which are the tax deductions but it affects the income to sure. And but there's a key exception in there, then. That's the thing that I have started focusing on in the last two, to three years. And that is any investment that involves the production or working interest in oil and gas is an exception to that rule. So in other words, an investor can be completely passive in that type of investment. But if there's depreciation or drilling costs, or other types of sort of tax losses, you can use those to offset your Come from your W-2 job. And, so I started planning to invest in them myself and that's where I start. Focusing my business, I am trying to find deals like that, that not only, I can invest in it would help me but it would help other investors similar to me. Yeah, I think that's a, that's a critical piece. That's a very not well-known fact and part of the code and so how much did your experience of almost buying the oil and gas business? Beer with regard to understanding that piece of the tax code, it really helped a lot. It does help that I live in Houston which is sort of the headquarters worldwide for the energy business. I have worked for a couple companies that were energy-related set. Help that I started putting a lot of this together. Ultimately, it's taken me to a place where we're putting together a deal right now that's going to be the biggest deal I have ever. A put together and it does involve natural gas. The fun I think cool part of it. Is it also involves helium which people don't necessarily associated with the oil and gas industry? But there's huge demand drivers for helium and their supply constrictions that just under development, you know, and it's leading to the price of that, commodity going up, and that's when we're putting together. To offer to investors in 23 and 24. And that's what I am really super excited about now, along the way, there's a couple of things I have done to related to CO2, capture and sequestration and things like that. But all of these things, relate to natural gas and that Takata industry. So talk about the, a typical deal structure. It could be this deal. You just mentioned that you're excited about, but what does that? That look like, is it a regulation D 506 C? What how do you structure these deals? So through my education on syndicating deals, I learned difference between 506, B, 506 c. Those are the two main exceptions to registering with sec. I think, I think there's a key Point here that I learned that, I think most investors, or, Are people who are trying to raise money should learn and that is what's the scc's definition of a security. So their definition is that, if an investor Gives money to a partner with the expectation that partner is going to do all the work and create profits for the investor, that's a security. Yeah. So basically you could have two people involved once the operator and ones the investor and investors completely passive. It's a security. And by law that has to be registered with the SEC, you can to that how we test and all that stuff. Really. And I know a lot of people do Don't frankly don't follow it and you know they don't it's with all these joint ventures flying around on. Yeah on Facebook and all this other stuff than you know so yeah you can get into some real trouble and as you see doesn't care what you call it Riley, I described it is their definition but 506 B, if I was 60 all that Reg, D stuff, those are exceptions to going through the full registration process. And so they have created these Areas where if you just follow these rules and document it, you don't have to completely register with the SEC. Also, you can avoid all the State security regulations the reporting and everything, all the reporting. Yeah. Which to every state that you have an investor in which you know, comply with all that right though? So to answer your question, though, what I have learned to do is structure all of my investments, as 506 C, which means there're two things there. One mean, it means I can only take accredited investors. So I cannot you are take money from non-accredited investors? And the reason I do 506 C is that if you do 506 C, you're allowed to market the funds, which basically means I can talk about it, do strangers. Absolutely. Which means if I am talking about on this podcast, that's marketing. People that I don't know. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Would not be able to talk about these on anybody's podcast if I was using by with 6 B. Which is the other one? Sure more of the friends and family people call it or yeah. Yeah. So both of our mortgage note funds are five or six Cs and I personally would like to be able to work with non-accredited investors but the way the rules are set up, it just makes it a little more challenging. So you have opted By the same way. Yeah it's very sad because there's so many people that don't qualify based on the rule to be accredited, but they're very smart people. They are very easily actually Savvy, and they fully understand the risk of the deal. And why should they be limited? Just because they don't have enough. Net worth, or they don't have a high enough income completely agree. But yeah, my brother is very smart with this stuff, and he's not accredited. He works at a credit union, he's been in the mortgage space anyway, so but the fact is I have gone the same route as you as far as, you know, the structure because these are the rules and these are from a business and time standpoint. It just makes the most sense. So if I am a passive investor out there and what does that look like? You know for me the listener who's a credited passive investor? What is that? Look like when they want to work with you. So when they want to work with me, there's a couple things. I like to have a one on one call with people, I prefer the video call but I will do phone calls as well. But it's a little bit of just sort of get to know each other, you know. I want to know. You know if you're an investor what are you looking for? What are your goals? You know, because if you tell them, you might tell me one thing. And I will be like, okay well we Satisfy you that with our investors but you know what? I know somebody else who has Investments that do satisfy that and I will make referrals to those people, make those introductions but you know just trying to get to know them a little bit about what their goals are what they're looking for. Because the first thing I want to do is just help people. You know how people get what they want, and there's enough people that will invest in my deals. I don't have to get every person, he knows make it a hard sell to try to get and I don't really want somebody to invest just because I have you know, tried to force them to in some way. I want them to want to invest in it, want them to meet their goals. Also, that call gives them a chance to get to know me and who I am, and what I do, and what I like. And, you know, then we have established a relationship, you know, they can have my cell phone number. They have my email, they can call me or contact me anytime, you know to ask me, more follow-up questions. That's I like to get started and yeah and I have an email list. Yeah, but I don't want to bombard people with stuff that they're not interested in if I have got two or three different types of Investments and there's only one that they're interested in and make sure their tags, they only see that stuff. They don't need to see the other stuff if they don't like, it makes sense, so briefly, but we share the email address that you talked about before we hit record. Yeah, so I graded an email address for this podcast, its abundance ad match. Real asset Partners.com. If you send an email to that email address, my team will make sure that you get, you know, the information you need about my company about me, how you can set up a call with me, and we can have that Discovery call as I call it and learn more about the different types of Investments that I offer, you know, its great things we're working on. So I still do have some rapid fire questions but before we get there a little bit more so what is as far as the deal structure? Let us just talk about the one that you're focused on. Now how does that work between you and the operator? How do you, how do you make money? And because I am personally you know interested in how this works. How do you structure that kind of behind the scenes? Yourself. Yeah, this one is little bit more complicated than the ones I have done previously because it's really going to end up being a lot more like a business, not just an asset that we own produces income, okay? So let me talk a little bit through our plan. Conceptually we're still putting this together. Ended up, I think I have now four different. Legal advisers on this deal, just to make sure we cover all the aspects and a tax strategist as well. But the first step in the process, we have already identified a particular natural gas field where the seller wants to sell it. And one of my partner's is knows this person very well through business experience. Multiple years, probably more than a decade That's our connection with that seller, but we know that this natural gas field has high concentrations of helium in it and the helium is what we're really after, okay, so once we buy this field, we will start developing this field by doing additional drilling which will increase production. That's where my operating partner has all the oil and gas experience he knows that field. Well already, and as well as other fields around us, he knows how kind of all the, all the gas flows through that region. And then my other partner on this deal isn't has expertise in the industrial gas sector, which is the sector of guess where they learn how to are they use technology to separate gases at the molecular level? So just think about the atmosphere, we're breathing that industry can Intake, take in that are separate out the nitrogen, separate out the oxygen. There's other minut elements, you know, it's separate CO2 if they want to liquefy, that, you know, and they know how to liquefy, the know, how to separate all these things. So we're going to use that type of technology, to separate the helium out from the natural gas so that we can sell that helium. And when we get this deal, the first really big piece of equipment, operating we're going to end up with more revenue from here. And then we will from the natural gas. Huh? Wow. So that's its, I am equating it to like a value-add project in the real estate World. We're going to buy a natural gas field. We're going to invest in equipment and create a new value that they're not monetizing right now. Okay. And so there's a lot of there's a lot more legal work on this side because we need to make sure the tax strategy works. We got to set up the entities properly so that Can pass all the equipment, depreciation, drilling cost deductions whole that back to ours, investors because those are he going to be huge benefits for the investors as well. We're buying a big asset. It's literally you know something around 50,000 Acres of mineral rights plus Wells that are already producing that's that requires a whole other you know, set of attorneys to help us figure that out. Know how to structure it properly, but sounds like a lot of moving pieces to a lot of moving pieces. That's what I really get excited about, you know, is when something big like this, but we're going to will raise a lot of money. There's a lot already, a lot of investors who are very interested in it, it's an opportunity for the investors where they can, they can come in soon as we open it by student. I mean, hopefully in the next couple months, they can come in later in the Year, they can come in and 2024 whatever point they want because I think we're going to continue to raise money and invest in this deal. For the first two years, I once we have done that, the cash flow is going to be good. I don't want to Promise Too Much. Yeah. Because it's not all in writing but I believe it's going to be a good deal for investors so much. I would love to pick your brain about on that, but we just don't have time. So what's the I guess, you know why wouldn't the seller do all these things? So The sellers not monetizing the helium right now, because the helium conked when the gas comes out of the ground, the helium content is in this particular field going to average between one and a half and two percent of the gas coming out of the ground. It's a very small amount back when he started developing this field decades ago, healing wasn't worth that much. So it wasn't even worth the money to try to separate out. Now that it's, you know, he's gotten old. Older he's kind of at a point in his career where he just wants to sell out sure. And so we're going to you know, make it good for him, or he can sell out and his family can enjoy. You know what he's built, and we're going to go ahead and do all the additional investment now, this required to go ahead and monetize that helium. Got it. Yeah. Because I think that's a common thought that goes through people's mind, whether we're talking about a single family, you know, rental Property a big multifamily syndication or a business or anything, when it doesn't mean that the asset itself is that there's anything wrong with it but it's just the natural life cycle or business cycle and if the seller versus what you have going on is they're very different. So makes a lot of sense. So you're going to add value and any idea how long you expect the whole thing to go on for It's gonna take us the first two full years to invest and build us up to where we will really have good Revenue stream from the helium. Then, you know, at that point is when we estimate will have significant cash flows that will start passing back to the investors. And that will continue as long as we operate the business or somebody comes in and wants to buy it now. Who would want to buy it? There's some of the major oil companies do produce helium, you don't really hear about it. But they do, and they're investing a lot of money into it. They could be a buyer, may be a hedge fund or private Equity. Fund might be an interested buyer depending on the market cycle and who that might be. It's it probably will be a big enough deal that we might be able to do an IPO and issue stock do. That I have been involved in one of those and my fire in my career. So I know how much work that is. It's not, not my favorite option but it is an option, or we just keep the thing and let it keep producing cash flow? You know, it's there's enough natural gas there that feel the last a long time. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. I like how it's like me buying a particular mortgage note if I buy it right? I don't know exactly how Oh it's necessarily going to play out but I should be good to go regardless of how it goes so that makes a lot of sense. So rapid-fire questions, and then we will get out of here. If you could go back and give your 18 year old self some advice, what would that be? I wish that I could tell my 18 year old self to read all those books that I didn't read until I was 48, 49 or 50, but I am not sure they existed at the time but be Or. Seek out entrepreneurs and learn from them you know, because College, education was great for me. But I don't that doesn't mean it's right for everybody and I felt like my whole life I always had this entrepreneurial bug but it just didn't know what to do with it. You know. I was already in a corporate job and that's what everybody told me to do. And you know, I would say Make sure you really know what you're doing. You know, not knowing what you're doing, but don't just accept what somebody else tells you, is the right path for you, explore everything. You want to explore. You know, when you're 18, you still got all your 20s ahead of you. There're tons of time. Keep learning. Yeah, constantly can keep learning. That's really good. If you were given ten million dollars. Tomorrow, personally, what would you do with it? I did invest a lot of it in this deal that I am putting together. Together right now. That makes sense. I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Must believe in the fundamentals of it. Well, I do. And the first dollars going into it aren't our my dollars, you know, I am putting my own money into it to get it started. And I am going to be investing right alongside the passive investors with my own money, so I can't believe in my own deals. Yeah, absolutely. If you could eat one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be? Only one meal. At this point, my life is probably a salad that's pretty well mixed with vegetables. You know a lot of variety of vegetables in it. I just you know, kind of the point where I feel like I need to be healthy with what I am saying. What's going in my body? Sure makes a lot of sense. What's one challenge that you're facing either in your personal life or your investing business right now? Time is still probably my biggest challenge because I still have that corporate position, but I am actively working on my corporate retirement. Like I call him a corporate retirement because I don't see myself completely retiring from work. But, you know, I am you and I are in a mastermind where our goal is to get to 200% passive, income of what we need live on. I am pretty close to a hundred percent and I can see the timeline for getting to 200%. So now's the time for me to start working on how to exit easily from the corporate world. But I want to leave. I want to leave a good Legacy behind. I have already found the person who's going to replace me and the executive team agrees with that person. Now is now's where I am working on solving that problem. So, get myself out of that business over the next year or two, Yeah. So I can really, really then do what I want to do all the time which is what I love this is investing business but also want to spend a ton more time traveling with my wife, there's a lot of travel, we want to do. We love to do it and do some things like that. Fantastic. Is there. Anything we haven't covered that? You'd like to cover Now, I feel pretty good about what I suffered police. We like our guests to feel good at the end. That's good. We're can listeners find you online? You can find me on LinkedIn. You know I mentioned the email abundance at match real asset Partners.com. I really think. That's the easiest thing is just send an email. There will send step back to you on how you can get in touch with me and learn all about our business, sounds great. And we will put that email address and that call to action in the show notes. So, yeah. Mark, Mark Livingston, this has been very, very good. I think it's A very going to be a very relatable episode 44, people and I just love that you, you know, there's so many things I love about your story, the fact that you were able to draw on your own strengths your existing, strengths and experience and approach I guess and then take ownership of your situation. That's one thing that came out to me is you know you weren't permanently focused on The divorce and the woe is me type thing. You actually took ownership and took action and then, you know, and then also the team sport thing that we talked about as well, I think is a key piece to how you have approached your Partnerships and you're investing business. So this is going to be a very, very relatable and very actionable, episode 4 people. So I thank you for your time. Well, thank you for having me on here. Jamie, I have listened to a lot of other episodes on your podcast and I like hearing everybody's stories and I do, I do like to talk to people. So if you wanted to, anybody wants to talk to me reach out. And let us just talk about how to how, to, how to get to that passive income number that you want. Absolutely. I love any other issue that, you know, you can relate to sounds great. I appreciate it Mark, and to the to listeners out there. There, we appreciate you. And we appreciate you spending your most valuable asset with us and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care.
Speaker 2
01:02:37
Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the form adversity to abundance podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts, that helps others find the show, and we greatly appreciate it. Thanks again for listening, and we will catch you in the next episode.
