From Bankruptcy to Abundance: Nate Hare on Self-Directed IRAs, Winning the Tax Game, and Owning Your Financial Future
Episode Details
Transcript
In this episode of From Adversity to Abundance, host Jamie Bateman sits down with Nate Hare, Vice President at Directed IRA, who knows firsthand what it means to lose it all and rebuild. In 2007–2008, Nate lost all 17 of his rental properties and was forced to file for bankruptcy — and if that wasn't enough, he simultaneously lost his job in the mortgage industry. Two crushing blows at once. But rather than staying down, Nate used that painful chapter as a launchpad to discover one of the most underutilized wealth-building tools available to everyday investors: the self-directed IRA.
Today, Nate travels the country educating real estate investors on how to use self-directed accounts to invest in rental properties, mortgage notes, note funds, private lending, and beyond. Most people don't even know this product exists — and that's exactly the gap Nate has made it his mission to close. This episode is packed with real client stories, hard-learned lessons, and a breakdown of the six account types Directed IRA manages — all designed to help you better understand your options and take true ownership of your financial future.
Guest Introduction: Nate Hare
Nate Hare is Vice President at Directed IRA and a passionate advocate for self-directed retirement account investing. After losing 17 rental properties and filing for bankruptcy during the 2008 financial crisis, Nate discovered the power of self-directed IRAs in 2012 and never looked back. With over 15 years in the industry, he now speaks at real estate investor associations and events across the country, helping investors understand how to grow wealth tax-free through alternative investments.
Episode Highlights:
- From $500K in Rental Income to Bankruptcy: Nate shares his raw story of losing 17 Las Vegas rentals and his mortgage job simultaneously during the 2008 crash — and how it reshaped everything he knew about investing.
- The Self-Directed IRA Unpacked: Nate breaks down what a self-directed IRA actually is, why most financial advisors won't tell you about it, and how it allows you to invest retirement dollars into real estate, notes, and private lending — tax-free.
- The Six Account Types: Nate gives a clear breakdown of the six self-directed account types Directed IRA manages — from traditional and Roth IRAs to HSAs and Coverdell ESAs — and how each one can work for different financial goals.
Key Takeaways:
- Losing everything can be the catalyst that leads you to smarter, more intentional investing — Nate's bankruptcy ultimately led him to a wealth strategy he now teaches nationwide.
- Most people have never heard of self-directed IRAs because the financial advisory industry has little incentive to promote them — educating yourself is the first step.
- Buying real estate or lending money inside a retirement account eliminates the tax drag that quietly erodes wealth for most investors over time.
Connect with Nate Hare & Directed IRA:
Website:directedira.com
Instagram: @natehareofficicial
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Speaker 0
Today, we chat with Nate Hare, vice president at Directed IRA. We get into his backstory, how he lost seventeen rental properties back in, two thousand seven, two thousand eight. He had to file for bankruptcy. Not only did he lose his entire source of rental income, but he also lost his job at the same time because he was in the mortgage industry. So clearly hit, some true rough patches financially, but now he's thriving. He's out there educating people about self directed IRA investing. We actually cover at the very end the six different types of accounts that Directed IRA, manages for people. We get into some cool stories, from clients of his as well as his own stories about, failure and success, and there are a lot of lessons you can learn from this this episode. I mean, a lot of people don't even realize that that this product exists because and Nate's out there traveling all over the country. He's he's everywhere, speaking to people and and educating people about how you can use a self directed account to invest in rental properties, mortgage notes, note funds, private lending, even some much more alternative strategies that we talk about toward the end. Nate's got a passion for this, and he's clearly just excited to spread the word. And I I really think this episode will help you understand what options are out there so that you can better educate yourself and and take ownership of your financial future. Enjoy. Speaker 1
From adversity to abundance, hosted by entrepreneur and seasoned real estate investor, Jamie Bateman, is the ultimate guide for active and passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness, and the confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate. With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches and a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a wealth of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode. Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges and build lasting financial success. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity to abundance is your road map to turning obstacles into opportunities and achieving financial freedom. Speaker 0
Welcome, everybody, to another episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman. And today, we have with us Nate Hare. Nate is vice president at Directed IRA. Nate, how are you doing today? Speaker 2
I'm doing great. How are you? Speaker 0
Awesome. I'm I'm doing well. I know you've got a very busy travel schedule. You speak all over the country, and, so we we definitely appreciate you taking the time to speak to us today. So before we get into your backstory a little bit and and how you can, what you can how you can help our listeners as well, tell us a little bit about who you are today and some of the abundance that you're living in. Speaker 2
Yeah. So I I would say today, you know, I I consider myself an educator. I I guess that's where my abundance lies, and we can kinda get into that backstory. But most of my days, are consumed with, you know, teaching people about this product that, you know, I was lucky to kinda run across in twenty twelve called the self directed IRA. I teach basically real estate investors how they can take their retirement accounts and invest in real estate completely tax free. It it's it's kind of fulfilling for me because it's not selling anything, really. I'm not selling like an investment. I'm not selling anything other than a concept that most investors don't get privy to. And that's how powerful a retirement account can be if especially if you're investing in real estate and and you wanna wanna get off the grid and stop giving so much money away to to uncle Sam. So that's that's what I spend a lot of my time doing. So you kinda mentioned, I I speak a lot. I I get asked to speak at local RIAs, different groups all across the country. So I'm very busy. I live out of a suitcase, but it's very, it's very rewarding, to me. So Speaker 0
Nice. Well, I I I'm, and I know a little bit about your backstory, but I'm thinking the reason that you're so passionate about that education is that, like you like you alluded to, you discovered this years ago. It sounds like fourteen years ago approximately, and I think it's really added value, to you as far as this, self directed IRA that that way to invest. But, and so I love that that it you know, obviously, we're all selling something and you're ultimately are selling something, but the fact it sounds like you're you're you're saying that you love selling it because you it's helped you so much, and so you wanna help a lot of other people. So it's an easy easy sell. Right? Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, that's exactly right. I I learned about this in twenty twelve by chance, and it's one of those things that when you when I first learned about it, I I was almost upset because I thought, why wasn't I taught this earlier? You know, I I went through college, short stint with an MBA program, went to real estate school, surrounded myself with a lot of successful real estate investors and lenders, and nobody was using this product nor had I ever even heard about it. Mhmm. And then when I heard about it, you know, it kinda made me upset. It's one of those things I wish I would have known about this ten years before I learned about Speaker 0
it. Sure. Speaker 2
So when I realized not there was a lot of people in my same position. Mhmm. Yeah. I just became passionate about teaching it. Speaker 0
Absolutely. We and we've got I've got a mortgage note fund that I run, and, most of our investors use some version of a self directed IRA account, some something, whether Roth or not. But so I start to get in, you know, into the mindset of, everybody knows about this because, you know, it's kind of the world that I live in. I've got, you know, an account myself and but you realize, no. If you zoom out slightly, you realize many, many people have never heard even heard of of investing in this format. But, let's jump back into your backstory. I know you went through a very rough patch, in two thousand seven, two thousand eight with investing and your own, you know, whether it was active or passive. Let's jump back and set the stage for us. What did things look like before the storm hit for you? Speaker 2
Yeah. So back in two thousand two when I graduated college, I always had an idea that I wanted be to be in real estate, specifically be a real estate investor. Mhmm. Out of college, you don't really know what that means. Sure. So I went to real estate school. That was my first thing. I thought, well, I'll go to real estate school to learn about real estate. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Pretty quickly, I learned a lot that they don't really teach you how to be a real estate investor. They teach you how to be a real estate broker or a real estate agent. And, you know, that that just wasn't something that I was leaning toward. I wanted to be on the investment side of real estate. I played college baseball, so I was always a numbers guy. I I mean, I was the nerdy kid that used to calculate his batting average at recess. I'm I'm not lying. So I was always gravitated toward the numbers of real estate. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
So I actually landed in the mortgage business back in two thousand four. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
This is where I got my first taste of real estate on the lending side. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
I started from that point, you know, accumulating my own rental property. Bought my first home that I lived in, started buying up rental properties. Again, you guys all know the dynamic in two thousand four to two thousand six. It was you know, you can fog a mirror and get a loan. So Absolutely. Had great credit. Yeah. Speaker 0
I was working for a title company back then. And similar to you, I I honestly had no idea what I got out of college and had no idea even what a a title company really did. So and not to make the episode about me, but there were so many loans being given out. I did a ton and ton of refis, a lot of investor loans as well myself as a as a title agent, notary. And, it was just a crazy busy time where anyone could, like you said, essentially get if you if you could fog a mirror, you could get a loan. The stated income loans. Oh, yeah. I I have this much income. Yeah. Nope. No evidence. Speaker 2
No doc loans. Speaker 0
No doc loan. Speaker 2
No doc loan. Income verifier. Speaker 0
Absolutely. And so and those are you know, it that all led up to the crash that I think we're gonna talk about. So, what happened next for you? Speaker 2
So in two thousand seven, two thousand eight, obviously, I had a rude awakening, and I was, you know, just so young and, you know, had seventeen rental properties at this time. And they were all good rentals, but the problem was, you know, most of them were in Las Vegas where I lived. If you guys know anything about Las Vegas in two thousand eight, I mean, that was probably one of the hardest hit cities in the country. Sure. Because you had a lot of investors from California, out of state investors that just started walking from their properties, and and that immediately started tore to torpedo the value of my properties. So even though I didn't walk from my properties, other investors walking from their properties affects the value. Sure. And I spent about a year just throwing all every dime I had in savings just to, you know, try to keep up with these mortgage payments that, you know, the the negative rents. And it just you know, at a at a certain point, you gotta just cut that umbilical cord. I consulted with consultants, and they said, you know what, Nate? You're just throwing good money at bad money. Just gotta let these properties go. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
So, you know, that was a real tough time for me. Sure. So but the thing was is it led me to where I'm at today. Yeah. Because I didn't know what I didn't know back then. And sometimes you have to go through, you know, some defeats to really understand what success is. Absolutely. Forces you out of your comfort zone. So Speaker 0
So real quickly, put putting a couple numbers that like you like you like to do. Mhmm. Put some numbers behind this. How old were you at that point? Let's say when you had your seventeen rentals before things crashed, And how how were those looking for you when everything was great, you know, from a number? How much income were you making just from your rental properties, if you can recall? Speaker 2
Oh, just from my rental properties. I think the first year, I made five hundred thousand dollars. So it was it was considerable. And, you know, I was at a very young age, but I I was a little bit ignorant at that age. I was in my mid twenties at that point. Mhmm. So, like I said, I I thought, oh, this is easy. Real estate investing is so easy. Right. You know? Not seeing the, you know, not seeing the writing on the wall, but, you know, almost nobody saw the writing on the wall. So it's not that I was, you know, a rarity. It was you know, it struck a lot of people. So I I don't look back on it back on it as a bad thing. It was a transitional phase for me. Yeah. But it led me to understanding a little bit more about how to be a smarter investor. Mhmm. And I would say specifically smarter on the tax and financial side of real estate investing, which I think still today, most real estate investors don't take time to really understand the mechanics of decreasing or eliminating their taxes on real estate. Mhmm. I still, to this day, see a lot of real estate investors make a lot of money in real estate, and I and I see the structures that they use. And I would I wouldn't say that they're very tax conscious. And, you know, for me, I I look at that, and it reminds me of myself because that that boat can only sail so far. So, you know, one of the things that I learned, which is why I'm so passionate about teaching it today Mhmm. Is about these self directed retirement accounts that allow you to hold real estate inside of them. Now the reason why that's important to me is because when I understood this concept, I think back to two thousand seven, two thousand eight, and I think about all the taxes that I paid on my rental income, my capital gains. Mhmm. And I think back now to, you know, and think, god, if I understood this product that I understood today or understand today Mhmm. I could have probably saved all those properties because I would have had a lot more saved, you know, by eliminating taxes. And I had a retirement plan at that time. You know, I was at a Northwestern Mutual account. Mhmm. I was conditioned to think that all you do with a retirement account is you put money in it. You let an adviser, you know, do, you know, do all the things for you, and and that's how you retire. That's how I was conditioned to think about retirement. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
I was never conditioned to think that I could apply my real estate knowledge to my retirement plan. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
And had I known that, I would have been buying most of the properties that I bought personally as a taxpayer. Mhmm. I would have been buying them in my retirement plan where I don't have to pay taxes Yeah. And where it's safe and secure. So, again, now I'm I'm almost glad that that happened because I probably wouldn't be in the position that I am today and understand the things that I understand today. Speaker 0
Yeah. So as far as year seventeen rental properties, did you lose any of those to foreclosure or anything like that, or was it all you you just cut your losses before things got Speaker 2
that? I filed I had to file bankruptcy at that time. Oh, wow. I yep. I consulted with, some pretty high high net worth financial advisers and attorneys, and they said, you know what? It's just one of those things. Yeah. You're throwing good money at bad money because the thing was I had loans that exceeded the the property values themselves. And Right. When you're when you're trying to keep those properties afloat, it can only last so long. Sure. And if you if anybody knows Las Vegas, there was no mortgage industry at that time. So I even lost my job too. Two jobs in the mortgage industry. I've showed up to the, to our office one day with locks on the door. So it wasn't only that I lost properties. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
We lost jobs in Las Vegas. So it was a very hard time, and there's not a lot of financial or real estate jobs in Las Vegas Yeah. At that time. And the stated income loan, if you guys know, that was almost a necessity in Las Vegas because everybody works on tips. When the banks got rid of those loans, I mean, we were out of business. So it was a really rough time back in two thousand seven, two thousand eight. But I'm glad that happened in my twenties and not my Speaker 0
Oh, yeah. So you lost your job and all of your rental properties within the same year or two. Correct? Yeah. And you filed for bankruptcy. I mean, that's that's a lot, and we we don't you know, it's not something where we're trying to bring people on here and and make them feel bad about, you know, mistakes or anything like that. I mean, that like you said, nobody saw this crash coming. No one did. And I think there is decent advice about investing in your own in a in a market that you know, and oftentimes, that's where you where you live. Right? So, before we get into the you know, how you learned about self directed IRA investing and and what you know, some of the things you would have done differently with regard to that, set that aside for a second. What what would you have done differently, you know, as far as buying rental properties? Or, could you have done a ten thirty one exchanges into a different area of the the country, or is there anything else you could have done or would have done differently besides, the self direction? Speaker 2
So I I used a few ten thirty one exchanges. Okay. So if, you know, people don't understand what that is, you take your capital gain from a property and you just roll it right into a similar property. Yeah. All that really does is defer taxes to the future. So at some point, you gotta pay the piper on on that type. Sure. But, you know, with a self directed IRA, I'll just say it's a retirement account that you can own rental properties in and other investments. Mhmm. Most people just think you buy stocks and bonds. But if you think about how a retirement account works is when you buy a property inside of a retirement account or you buy a stock inside of a retirement account and you sell it, your retirement account gets the gain and gains are untaxed in a retirement account. Doesn't matter if you buy and sell a stock, a mutual fund, or a rental property. So with those properties that I was buying and selling because I sold a lot too. So I was flipping property and and and rolling it into new property. Mhmm. But I was paying a lot in taxes. I mean, I I remember writing ninety thousand dollar checks to the IRS. So, you know, that's a big squeeze, but I just thought that that's that's the nature Speaker 0
of the beast. Right. Speaker 2
But when you understand that there's a smarter way to invest dollars because I didn't need the money. I didn't need to spend the money. I was just trying to roll it and invest it and grow it. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
If you think about a retirement account, a retirement account's not a taxpayer. Nate Hare is a taxpayer. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Had I understood that I can start buying property inside my retirement account Mhmm. I would have probably bought most of those investments inside my retirement account. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Because you can even get financing. Your IRA can get financing. So the long and the short of it is Mhmm. I mean, if I just had to, you know, shoot from the hip, I would probably say had I bought at least ten of those properties inside my retirement account Mhmm. I probably could have saved at least five hundred thousand dollars in taxes. Speaker 0
Wow. Speaker 2
And that's considerable. Speaker 0
Yeah. It's Speaker 2
And I probably would still be rolling those dollars over today, and it would be considerably more. Now Yeah. Today, I I primarily self direct my retirement account into notes, and we Mhmm. Talk about that transition Speaker 0
Absolutely. Speaker 2
Away from, like, being a landlord to being a lender. But I think the point of it is is that, you know, it doesn't take that the financial crisis to understand that, you know, being tax conscious is the is the way that real estate investing becomes really successful. Right. I mean, that's the age old saying. It's not how much money you make. It's how much money you keep. Speaker 0
Yeah. Absolutely. So two thousand twelve, you find find out about this this strategy, this product. How did that happen? And, also, what did you do on the w w two side to to, get back on the on the horse as far as active income? Speaker 2
Yeah. So, you know, I I tried to stick it out in Las Vegas. Las Vegas just wasn't working for the industry that I wanted to be in. So I was looking to make a transition, and I got a call. It you know, actually, it was in two thousand ten. I got a call from this company first. Okay. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
This was a self directed IRA company out of Houston, Texas. Okay. A friend of mine worked there at the time, and he was trying to convince me to come move to Austin, Texas to help them open up their first Austin branch. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
Now my first question is, what the heck is a self directed IRA? Like, I I didn't even know what that was. So I kinda just chewed them off and said, no. I I don't even know what that is. Doesn't sound like it's right for me. Right. Well, they kept calling and kept calling. And two years later, you know, I was just ready to make a move. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna give this company a chance. I'll give Texas a chance, and they Mhmm. They've they relocated me to Houston, Texas where their corporate office was. Mhmm. And this is where I first learned about what a self directed IRA was. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
I I learned from some very, very knowledgeable real estate attorneys that were running the company at the time. Mhmm. And I real quickly found out I was in a different echelon of real estate investing. I I had upped my game surrounding myself with people that were really smart about real estate investing, not just buying real estate the conventional way. I'm taught and I I don't wanna bore people with, you know, fancy terminology, but real estate investors buying property subject estate option contracts. This was the first time I had ever learned all these creative real estate strategies Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
And how you can apply them to a self directed retirement account. And I learned more, I think, about real estate investing from the clients Speaker 0
That's what I Speaker 2
was just of that company. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. I've learned way more from clients that self direct their retirement account into real estate Yeah. Than I ever learned working for a mortgage company or going to real estate school. Speaker 0
Wow. Yeah. That's what I was wondering if it was more from the people that you worked with or the people that you were serving, your clients. Sounds like a little bit of both. Yeah. Speaker 2
Both. Yep. Speaker 0
Got it. Alright. So, you know, fast forward as far as your own personal story, and then I wanna definitely dive into how people can use this this tool with notes, as you said, and real estate and other some of the we'll get into some of the nitty gritty. Obviously, we don't have time to cover all the things you just rattled off, but, what do things look like for you on a personal level from, you know, over the last fifteen years with your own personal investing journey? Speaker 2
Yeah. So now things are are great. So, I've worked in the self directed IRA industry for fifteen years now. I've worked for two big companies. The the company that I was originally with sold, and now I'm with Directed IRA, which basically does the same thing. We provide self directed IRAs to people that wanna invest their retirement accounts into alternatives. Mhmm. My personal investment strategy has changed partly due to my schedule. I do travel a lot and speak a lot. I I live out of a suitcase at this point, but I but I really enjoy it. I I it gets me out there seeing different towns, seeing different cities. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
And and speaking and I I say educating educating investors about how these self directed IRAs work, different strategies you can apply to them. I show a lot I like to show a lot of case studies and stories that I've learned from my Speaker 0
own clients. Super helpful. Yep. Speaker 2
Super helpful because that's how I learned. I get a lot of feedback that I make self direction easy because when I I I wasn't an attorney. So when I was learning it from these real estate attorneys, I had to break it down more simply in layman's terms. Absolutely. So I had to understand it in layman's terms, but how I teach it is kind of that same way. Sure. So, with that busy schedule and my background in mortgage lending, I've switched my strategy where I'm primarily a private lender at this point. Okay. And I do private loans out of my self directed retirement accounts because one thing you need to know is if you ever wanna be a lender, lending is great. No work, no toilets, no tenants. You're secured by real estate. In some cases, you can get double digit returns. Yeah. But it's ordinary income to you as a person. Right. Speaker 0
Right. Absolutely. Speaker 2
It's not it's not taxable in an IRA. And I'm not saying you should not lend outside of your IRA. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Just understand that the tax differences between lending money out of your bank account and lending money out of your Roth IRA. Speaker 0
Absolutely. Speaker 2
A lot of successful investors do both. But at this point, I'm I'm very strategic with how I invest my retirement account. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
Where I do private money loans, hard money loans Yep. Out of my self directed Roth IRA k. And my self directed HSA. I love those two accounts because I pay no tax on distributions, and I pay no tax on any of the interest income. And I'm very, very strategic in who I lend to. I lend to real estate flippers who only need my money for twelve months. Why? Because I'm a numbers guy, and I understand that if I can get double digit returns by lending money out, I can also compound that interest by doing short term notes. Not saying that's the end all be all, but that's just the way that I like to lend. And I see a lot of investors lend differently, but that's that's the great thing I think about lending, when you're creating notes specifically is you can be very creative with the terms of your notes. Speaker 0
Right. Right. Speaker 2
Simple interest notes, shared appreciation notes. I know I'm just speaking Chinese to some people out there, but it's it's I get a lot of thrill in Yeah. In doing this because it also allows me to help local real estate investors Speaker 1
Sure. Speaker 2
Pick up property who are better real estate investors than I ever was. So Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
I still invest in real estate as as the as the bank now. Speaker 0
Got it. Yep. And we're getting more into private lending ourselves. We've we've got the mortgage note fund, and we're starting to get it more into origination of of hard money lending. There are certainly many advantages to both of those. But you're right. From a tax standpoint, neither one of those really offer when I say, you know, I'm referring to mortgage note investing where you're buying an already originated note, typically an owner owner finance property or a owner occupied property. Pardon me. And same thing with lending, whether it's hard money lending or originating on an, you know, owner occupied property. None of that stuff really has any inherent tax benefits inside the asset class itself, whereas, you know, buying a rental property does. So on the rental property side, when you use your self directed IRA account to buy a rental property, if someone does that, just say a single family home, you know, keep it keep it simple. Are you not giving up any of the tax benefits since you're using your IRA account? Is that is there nothing that you're getting rid of there? Is it does it not make sense to use to buy, you know, a rental property in in an LLC that has nothing to do with a self directed account? So clarify that? Speaker 2
Yeah. So first, I think real estate investing is great inside and outside of an IRA. And I think what you're alluding to and and, again, I I this is one of the, I guess, misconceptions I hear a lot from CPAs who hear about our product and go, Nate, why would you ever buy real estate in an IRA when you when your IRA doesn't get depreciation? Speaker 0
Right. No. Exactly. Speaker 2
And I I asked that CPA, is that the only reason somebody buys real estate for depreciation, or do they buy it for cash flow? Do they buy it for appreciation, and do they buy it because it's tangible? Oh, and by the way, did you know that the IRA doesn't get depreciation because the IRA doesn't have any tax depreciate against? So it's a it's a mute point in my mind if you're gonna invest your retirement account. And most people, seventy percent of Americans have one. There's forty nine trillion dollars in US retirement accounts. They have to invest it in something before they get to retirement. So my question to that person is if they say, why would you invest in real estate in your IRA when your IRA doesn't get depreciation? I say you should invest your retirement into what is the safest, most secure, and performs the best in your mind. Depreciation is a mute point in an IRA. So for me, I'm gonna invest in what grows best and what I understand best. Mhmm. And my again, the the other common answer is if you're not if you're not gonna invest in real estate because your IRA doesn't get depreciation, does that mean the alternative is just invest in the stock market just because my IRA doesn't get depreciation? Speaker 0
Right. Right. Speaker 2
What if my IRA makes more money buying real estate? Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
So, you know, it's one of those things that I go back to. Real estate investing outside of an IRA is good. If you need the depreciation or if you want some cash flow Right. But I'll I'll put it this way. I have a real estate investor that says, he teaches a lot too, and he says, Nate, I try to do this many deals in my name or my LLC. Mhmm. Not anymore, not any less. And what he means by that is he's a full time real estate investor that also uses a self directed IRA. Okay. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
He wants enough deals in his name personally where he knows he's gotta pay a little bit of taxes on. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
He just wants enough deals where his needs are met, where he can pay his mortgage payment. He can pay the car payment. He could take a nice vacation, he could buy Christmas gifts for the family. Mhmm. But once he hits that line Right. He doesn't wanna keep doing deals in his name or his LLC because then he feels like he's just working for the government because uncle Sam's gonna take forty percent of that from him. So at that point and this is an oversimplification. But at that point, every real estate deal is going as in his retirement account because he wants those extra deals, that extra money to not be taxed. Right. And he wants to roll those over into new investments. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
And once you get to retirement, you know, if you've played your cards right, you know, your real estate investing in your retirement account can pay for your entire retirement completely tax free. I mean, I've got clients that have a dozen rental properties in a self directed Roth, and they're over the age of sixty, so they have what's called tax free distributions. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
I have one lady, Rebecca, in Houston. She has twelve rental properties, so she has twelve renters that pay rent to her Roth IRA, which is untaxed. And now that she's above the age, she can take tax free distributions of those rents. So every month, she gets about twenty five thousand dollars in her Roth IRA from the renters. She simply takes it out to herself as a tax free penalty free distribution. The next month, she takes another twenty five grand. The next month, the next month. So she's living on about three hundred thousand dollars of tax free rental income by just owning the properties in her Roth and not personally as the taxpayer. Speaker 0
Wow. Speaker 2
And meanwhile, her account grows every single year. Speaker 0
Yeah. That's amazing. And, also, if you do buy rental properties outside of your IRA, you you do you still have to deal with the depreciation. There's still depreciation recapture Speaker 2
at Speaker 0
the end of it all. So it's not an eternal tax benefit as far as, you know, if you if you take advantage of that depreciation. Walk us through you know, in your case, how does a private lending deal work for you? Like, just kind of if somebody wanted to let's say if somebody wanted to roll over or transfer funds from their their current four zero one k or IRA into a self directed account and they wanna do one private lending deal, Mhmm. What might that look like? What do where do they find a borrower? How do they get set up doing that? And and how are you able to do that yourself and roll that into the next deal? What does that look like? Just give us kind of a basic case study there. Speaker 2
Yeah. So if you wanna get into that type of investing, first, you gotta open up an IRA with a company like us that'll allow you to do that investment. Mhmm. Fidelity and Charles Schwab won't let you do a hard money loan out of your retirement account. It's called an alternative investment. Speaker 0
Uh-huh. Speaker 2
So first step is just open an IRA. And we say self directed IRA, but self direct is just a marketing term. So whatever IRA you have at Fidelity, if it's a traditional or Roth, you set up the same IRA here at directed IRA. Mhmm. Okay. Move some money over. You're gonna wire some money from Fidelity to, to directed IRA. And then once you've got money in your IRA with us, here's where the self directed part comes in is if you wanna do a hard money loan to a borrower, you have to identify the borrower. So we don't give you borrowers. We don't tell you who to lend to. That's where the self and self directed comes from. Speaker 0
Gotcha. Speaker 2
So you got you have to find you have to vet your own deals. So it's a little bit more of an entrepreneurial account. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
But, you know, where have I found my borrowers? Through all the real estate events that I've spoken at over the last fifteen years. I would say if you're interested in real estate, you should be attending your local real estate investor association. There's a lot of good ones across the country. There's a lot of meetup groups with some really, you know, successful real estate investors. So long story short, I have about three or four real estate flippers that I loan to in Houston, Texas. Mhmm. And, you know, they're they've got pretty good deal flow, but they don't come to me for every deal. Yeah. They don't send every deal to me. They send me the the real hard deals that they can't, you know, get their conventional link bank to fund. Right. I'll give you an example. I had one one guy approached me and said he needed the he found this property that was, vacant for two years in a rough part of Houston. His conventional bank looked at the property, said we're not touching that in too rough a shape. Mhmm. He had identified that the owner was a grandson that inherited it that didn't know he owned it until the the investor called him. But and the the grandson was in need of money. So long story short, motivated seller. Sure. So his conventional bank wouldn't lend him the money, the investor the money. Mhmm. The hard money lender that he used, he said, yeah. He can get it done, but it was gonna take two weeks. But for a real estate investor, oftentimes, you wanna get this deal done, like, now before somebody else snags it. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
So this is why when you reach out to a private money lender private money lenders consist of self directed IRA lenders. So he reached out to me. He said, hey, Nate. I've got this deal. I need a hundred grand to buy it. It's the ARV is two fifteen. Will you look at it and see if you're willing to lend on this deal? I look at it. I decide whether or not I'm comfortable loaning on that deal. Mhmm. I actually ran comps on it, and I comped it out at two thirty seven five. So as a lender, for me to loan a hundred thousand dollars on some on an asset that's worth above two hundred Yeah. Pretty safe deal for me. I I can sleep at night on that deal. So next step, once I've got my money in my self directed IRA Mhmm. Is I have my attorney draft a promissory note. Mhmm. And the promissory note's gonna have the terms dictated between me and the borrower. Mhmm. Now in this specific case, the borrower just needed my money for twelve months. So he was gonna refinance it late at a later point or just fix it up and flip it. Mhmm. So he was fine paying twelve percent and two points upfront. So Yeah. Those terms are drafted in the promissory note. The lender on the note is my Roth IRA, and I included my self directed HSA. Okay. It's a fractionalized note. Still one lien. Both accounts are in first lien position, but it's still one note. Mhmm. And I give that to my self directed IRA custodian. They review the the note just for accuracy as far as the the lender information. Mhmm. And then money out of my Roth IRA and HSA go directly to the title company. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
So now my I my Roth and my HSA own two things, a promissory note Mhmm. And a deed of trust. Speaker 0
Okay. Yeah. Speaker 2
Deed of trust is what secures me to the property in the event the borrower doesn't pay or the borrower dies. So long story short, you know, he paid on time every time, you know, every month. And after twelve months, he can he actually refinanced. He was gonna, sell it, but he decided to keep it. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
Refinanced it with the conventional bank that wouldn't give him the financing at the beginning. Right? Speaker 0
Nice. Speaker 2
So my Roth and my HSA are made whole through the payoff, and then I just do it again. And it's rinse and replete. Speaker 0
If if, somebody wanted to spend let's say someone wanted to do five hard money lending deals in in per year. Mhmm. How much time approximately do they have to put in to do this? Because the reality is some people want to spend no time on on their retirement. They want to just put the money in. And the truth is stocks and bonds are less, you know, time consuming. Yeah. There's there's a whole scale. It's not either passive or active, and I've talked about this a lot. I still think this is fairly passive what you're doing. But Speaker 2
Mhmm. Speaker 0
But, how much time does somebody need to set aside to be able to manage this if they if they wanna do, say, four or five deals per year in hard money lending through their their self directed IRA? Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I'd like to say it's easy, and it it doesn't take much time. But all that what I just mentioned, that took a little bit of time. But it also you know, I'm lucky enough to have those relationships. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Most people do not have those lending relationships or people that they trust that have those kind of deals. Right. So what I would say is, you know, you're gonna spend a little bit of time, and I would probably say to anybody without giving investment advice Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Is there's other ways to get into those types of investments without you having to do all the work. Right? There's debt funds. There's multifamily syndicate. There's other things. There's other experts that you can leverage. Right. There's I I believe you guys have one. Speaker 0
Yeah. So Exactly. Speaker 2
If I was going back, and I'll just say this. This is the honest truth. If I didn't have the relationships that I had, I'd still would be lending, but I would be I would be, relying on somebody else to do the vetting, and I would take less return for that. Speaker 0
Sure. No. And there there's a lot of hard money lending businesses operate that way where they have the capital partners who, you know, say, it's your IRA. If you decided you wanted to be a capital partner to a hard money lending company, you can lend your money to that company and expect a return of maybe ten percent, where that company is then charging the points, charging a little bit of extra income, you know, to the borrower. And so they're making a little bit on the spread, and they're making some on points and also extension fees and things like that. But they're the ones doing the work, and you're just, in that case, way more passive. You're lending to that hard money lender. So there's also that option. But yeah. And that's why, I mean, we have our our mortgage note fund. Ours is for accredited investors, and it's it's, I mean, it's it's quite passive. You know, really, it's a matter of, okay. What did what did I get this this deposit for into my account, whether self directed account or not? And where's my k one so I can file my tax return? I mean, you know, that that's a bit more Speaker 2
passive than my than my deals. Yes. Speaker 0
Absolutely. Yeah. But but but there's a it's it's just I love this the combination between mortgage note investing and self directed IRA account investing or private lending and self directed IRA account investing because, like, we already covered, there's no real inherent tax benefits to that asset class by itself, but the self directed use using a retirement account solves that problem for you, whether it's tax free or tax deferred. So what what's one of the the craziest, most creative things you've seen from a client probably in your the last fifteen years? You know, does a case study come to mind? It doesn't have to be the most creative, but something interesting that our viewer may find find intriguing, just a creative way they've used a self directed account. Speaker 2
I have so many. I'll I'll tell you this one. And this is, I've got some good lending ones, but I'll I'll tell you a more real estate one. Again, this is another deal in Houston, Texas because I was there for nine years. I saw a lot of clients doing a lot of creative things with their IRA. So I had a client. He had never had a retirement account. He was in his mid fifties. He was a developer. Okay? So real estate investor and developer. So he had first funded his Roth IRA when he was fifty four years old. K? He had never had a retirement account. This is how late he started. Speaker 0
Wow. Speaker 2
At the time, I think the contribution limit was five thousand dollars. So he put five thousand dollars in one year, and it was just at the end of the year so that once we hit January, he threw another five thousand dollars in. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
So he's got a ten thousand dollar Roth. He's a real estate investor, and he worked in the third ward. If anyone's familiar with the third ward in Houston, rough area, Houston for many years. Now it's now it's kind of a hot area. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
He was working primarily in that area from the from the beginning. He actually, positioned himself in the area where everybody in the community knew him and said, if you've got any problems with your real estate, go see go see James. Speaker 0
Nice. Speaker 2
Painted a red door on his building. So everybody knew if you got a real estate issue, go see James. Mhmm. So he gets a knock on his door. A lady had not paid her property taxes for five years. She let she basically turned her house into a hoarder house. Again, this is a rough part of Houston. Mhmm. She was in her eighties, and she was two weeks away from foreclosure because she had not paid her property taxes. Mhmm. So long story short, the James goes out and says, well, let's take a look at the property. Let me see if if I can help you. Mhmm. He goes out, says, well, this is this is a rough how I mean, she turned it into a herd house. It was maybe worth thirty grand at the time. Wow. So he said, well, I'll help you out. I'll get you out of your situation. I'll give you ten grand out of my Roth IRA Mhmm. To pay your property taxes. And but he didn't know if he wanted to buy the house. So what they did is an arrangement called a real estate option. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
He gave her consideration, which was the ten thousand dollars in exchange for his Roth IRA to have the first right to buy her property, but not the obligation to buy her property. Speaker 0
Okay. Yeah. Speaker 2
So the option period was for two years. So he's got this option. His Roth has this option to buy a property. She ends up saving of herself from foreclosure. She moves into a home with some family in Virginia. Now I'm making this story short. Now he has the option to take this property over because she vacated the property. So he took the property. He executed the option, or his Roth executed the option. Now he's got a hoarder house in his Roth IRA, but no money in his Roth IRA. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
So what he did is one of the things you can't do is you can't extend your own services to your retirement plan. So he couldn't use his own development company to do anything on that property. Mhmm. But he knew a friend of his that also had a development company. He said, hey. I've got this Roth IRA owned hoarder house. I think we can demo it and build two new townhomes and sell them retail. He said, I don't have any money in my Roth IRA to pay you. Would you be interested, construction cut development company bringing in all the construction costs and exchange? I'll give you fifty percent of the profit when we sell these two new townhomes, and we'll structure it as a joint venture. So Roth IRA and con and developer go into a joint venture Mhmm. Fifty fifty. Developer comes in, bulldozes the property, builds two new townhomes, sells them retail. His Roth IRA netted in sixteen months, two hundred and ninety seven thousand dollars on that one deal Incredible. Through a ten thousand dollar option contract, and he just leveraged his network and brought a developer in to build. And and and all the gain went back to his Roth tax free. Had he done that personally, he woulda lost eighty thousand dollars to taxes. Speaker 0
That's incredible. I mean, the ROI on that. I don't know what it is. Yeah. Incredible. Well, we are starting to run out of time. That that's, that's an unreal story, but it does I think one of the takeaways here is to, you know, open up your mind and realize there are other ways to do this do things than just the the standard traditional way that we've been taught. Doesn't mean it's right for everyone. I think there is a, you know, I think there's a large subset of the population who just doesn't even know about this, which that's what you're trying to do when you spread the word and educate people. I still think there are people who this probably isn't right for. Just briefly, who who might this not be right for, using a self directed account? Speaker 2
The people it's not right for are people that are are quick to trust. You if you're pick vetting the investments, you gotta do a little bit of digging just as far as people's background. That's a good have to leverage someone else's experience or talents. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
I would say who it's for, though, it's somebody that really wants to get out of the rat race and and get out of the stress of of turning on CNBC to see what their stocks are worth every every single day, every single morning. It's somebody that wants to be a little bit entrepreneurial or take control of their retirement. Right. Or it's just somebody that wants to diversify. I will tell you that most most millionaires and the data doesn't the data shows this. Mhmm. Most people who have a retirement account do not hold an alternative at all. Mhmm. But if you look at the people with a net worth above a million dollars Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
The amount the percentage of alternative investments that person has in their retirement account is twenty two percent. That's considerable. Speaker 0
Wow. Speaker 2
When you look at the ultra wealthy people with a net worth of thirty million and above, almost fifty five percent of the assets inside their retirement account are alternative investments. So if you don't wanna do it, that's fine. You could say. But if you want to, based on the numbers Yeah. Have a larger IRA than most people, alternatives is something you should at least consider and look at. I'm not telling you you have to invest in it. Right. But there's a lot of opportunity, especially with alternatives like real estate where there's tangible investments that appreciate in cash flow. If you can apply those strategies to an account that doesn't pay tax, your retirement account might look a little different. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Yeah. And one of the things I did not know for years or just because I didn't spend time learning about it or thinking about it, but, you know, we a lot of us tend to think black or white, black you know, meaning everything's black and white. There's this or that. And the truth is you can still have a Vanguard, you know, IRA account, say, a Roth account that invests in stocks and bonds and, you know, maybe money market account or something. But and an account with directed IRA or a similar company, you can move some of your money over. You don't have to just cancel your account. I and, you know, you don't have to kill your four zero one k entirely. You can have both. You can have multiple Roth IRA self directed accounts. Right? Speaker 2
You can have as many you can have as many IRAs as you want. I have two. I have a I have an account at Charles Schwab. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
I keep a little bit of money in there to track the market, but I also have an IRA here at Directed IRA. I have a client that has thirty five IRAs parked all over the place. Wow. Yeah. So so you don't need to shut down or move everything out of your Fidelity account or your Charles Schwab account. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
But you can have two. Most of my clients, I would say ninety five percent of my clients, they have a Directed IRA account, and then they also have a Fidelity account. And they just move money back and forth between those accounts depending on what they wanna invest in at that time. Speaker 0
Awesome. That that that's really cool. So directed IRA, how are you all different than all the other self directed custodian or self directed companies out there? Speaker 2
Yeah. So there's a there's a handful of companies out there. I mean, it's really a niche product, so you're not gonna find a ton of them. There's probably a dozen good self directed IRA companies. Mhmm. We our product's the same. An IRA is an IRA is an IRA. So what you wanna do is you wanna work with a company that is going to fund your investments on time, pick up the phone. At the end of the day, it's good customer service that sets us apart. Mhmm. That's where really why we spend a lot of our time and energy is is making self direction easy because most people have never done it before. So kind of the mottos that we live, on, you know, behind back doors is we wanna make self direction easy so your mother could do it. Mhmm. So I think that that plays a part in it. So Yeah. That's how we separate ourselves from the other companies that might make the process a little onerous and time consuming. Right. We try to do the opposite. So if anybody goes and looks at our reviews on on Google, you'll see. I mean, our clients love our love our service on our our product, and I think we've got, like, sixteen hundred five star reviews at this point. So it's the service that sets us apart. Speaker 0
No. That's that's and that's so, so important for sure. What's a a challenge that you're facing, whether you personally in your in your professional work life or the company at large, what's a big challenge that you're facing right now? Speaker 2
Challenge? I I mean, challenge is always just at least getting the word out there. I mean, getting, you know, getting out to enough people. I think right now, I would say and this is honest truth. A lot of people are just in this kind of frozen mode, and this happens every once in a while. Right? Investing is cyclical. But I think with just, you know, the economies and wars when you when you got a lot of things going on, people are less concerned about their retirement accounts. So right now, people are just a little hesitant to move money, you know, out of the market. Plus the market's been doing pretty well. Yeah. So I think what I mean, that's really a challenge, but that challenge only lasts, you know, so long. We know that that's cyclical and it'll come back. But that you know, that's the only challenge is just getting people to understand that it's out there and getting people convinced that, you know, this might be right for them. Nice. Okay. Other than that, it's, you know Yeah. Smooth sailing. Speaker 0
Got it. Alright. Got a few rapid fire questions, and then we'll get out of here, Nate. Yep. If you were given you personally, if you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it? Speaker 2
Oh my gosh. I would I would I mean, I would invest in real estate, obviously. Mhmm. I would probably put if I had that much money, I would put it into some conservative investments where I had to do no work. So I wouldn't do all the work vetting my own deals. I would probably do a small portion of that. I would probably buy, you know, some some property, and there's there's some areas of the states that I that I really like. Mhmm. I would probably even and this is one of the strategies I'm looking at in my retirement account is buying property subject to or with a seller financing. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Those types of strategies, you can you can accumulate a lot of properties with a little bit of money. Mhmm. And so, yeah, there's it would all be real estate focused, but I would probably diversify into some hard hard asset real estate Mhmm. Some creation of some notes and some real passive investments where I invest into a fund that they do all the work. And, you know, making seven, eight percent on ten million dollars Speaker 0
Yeah. I Speaker 2
mean, you're pretty much set. Speaker 0
It's a good problem to have. Speaker 2
Yeah. Speaker 0
What's a book or two that you can recommend to our listener? Speaker 2
So, Never Split the Difference. I love I love Chris Voss. Yeah. I I study him a lot. You know, some other books I I'm not I'm not a huge book guy. I like to watch. I like to I I learn I'm a more visual person. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
So, you know, there's a lot of things that I'll that I'll watch as far as investing goes. I mean, I'll I'll give a plug to our CEO, the self directed IRA handbook. If anybody's interested in diving into a a real good easy to consume book on self directed IRAs, look up the self directed IRA handbook by Matt Sorensen, number one bestseller for self directed IRAs. It's those things, those nerdy things that I get a kick out of, but I guarantee it. If you're taking a vacation, bring that book with you, and you'll come back from that vacation thinking about investing your retirement a lot differently. Speaker 0
I love it. For you, how has financial abundance made your life better? Speaker 2
Well, it makes it a lot easier to sleep at night. I'll say that. So, you know and I wouldn't call it abundance. I would call it more security. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
You know, investing in things that I understand better or or at least knowing that I can do it now allows me to sleep at night. You know, and I I I just get a a real thrill out of teaching people this, to be honest. I I Yeah. I know it sounds cheesy, but it it's it's real life. I've been in this business for fifteen years, and I still wake up, you know, invigorated to get out and, like, get on podcasts, get on webinars, and teach people because it's always a new set of eyes. They're always there's always people that are hearing this information for the first time. Mhmm. And I think that will always be the case with our product because Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Your financial advisers will never tell you about it because they don't want you to self direct. Yeah. So, you know, I I get up every day, you know, thinking that, yeah, my I have abundance in in life by just getting out there and showing people what I wish I would have known a long time ago. Speaker 0
And and that security piece is huge. Yeah. So we're before we we actually log off here, Nate, you know, what give us a a high level overview. We've we've hit a bunch of different types of self directed accounts. We've touched on different ones. But, you know, there's, like, EQRPs and and HSAs and Roth and traditional IRAs. Can you give us a quick rundown of the type of accounts that you all manage? Speaker 2
Yeah. So we have six types of accounts k. That can be self directed. They all are tax exempt trusts. Four are for retirement. Two are for current needs. So the four retirement accounts that we have that can be self directed Mhmm. Traditional IRA, Roth IRA, SEP IRA if you're self employed. Mhmm. And we also have a solo four zero one k if you're self employed. Those are for retirement. Right? You build wealth. You don't have to pay taxes on the Roth or the Roth four zero one k. I love those two accounts out of the four. Yeah. But then we also have accounts that are not retirement accounts, but grow tax free. Self directed health savings account Okay. And self directed Coverdell ESA. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
HSA, it's just like the HSA you have at your job. Sixty percent of employers offer a health savings account. Yep. Most people, a, don't even know you can invest it, and, b, definitely don't know you can invest it into real estate. Those accounts grow tax free, but you could take the money out as soon as the account makes the money to pay for your qualified health care, health expenses. Speaker 0
Yeah. Okay. Speaker 2
And then the Coverdell ESA, it's another account. It works like a five twenty nine plan. However, it allows you to invest in real estate or private loans or debt funds. But, again, the income on those accounts can be taken out immediately tax free and penalty free Mhmm. To pay for qualified education expenses for your kids or your grandkids. So it's not just about retirement, and that's why I get so much thrill. It's it's how do you pay for the things you're paying for today Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Without dipping into your back pocket your taxable money. And let your investments pay for health care, and let your investments pay for education for your kids and grandkids. And ex can you consume more expenses with the same amount of money because the government doesn't tax HSAs and ESAs. Right. So those are the six accounts that we have. Speaker 0
Got it. And what is besides real estate and lending or mortgage notes, is there are there one or two other asset classes that tend to be popular within the your the self directed world? Speaker 2
I would say the most popular investments that we see are, passive real estate investings through multifamily syndications and commercial syndications would probably be a big one. Yeah. Private lending, whether it's buying an existing note, investing in a debt fund, or creating a note is probably second. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
And then we have some other investments that, are probably like mineral rights investments is has been a big one. Investing in in real estate underneath your feet, Didn't know that exists. Okay. So mineral rights, oil and gas, cryptocurrency, and precious metals. Speaker 0
Okay. Super helpful. Nate Hare, what have I not asked you that you wish I had? Anything we we should have we should cover before we log off here? Speaker 2
No. I I I think we've I think I've bored the audience. Not at all. Not at all. But I I I I hope I make it exciting. I I, you know, I always have an uphill battle talking about retirement accounts or myself for that matter, but I I get excited about it, and I hope people, you know, feel the excitement vehicles. Speaker 0
You know, one of the the themes of our show is taking ownership of your situation, you know, and it's typically we're we're we're focused on your financial situation, your your your financial you know, whether that's your business or your retirement account or whatever it is. But taking ownership doesn't always mean you have to spend, you know, fifty hours a week managing a retirement account. I mean, that's not the point. But but it is one of the common themes of overcoming adversity and getting to abundance is just taking ownership. I mean, maybe stocks and bonds in a in a regular, you know, Schwab account is the way to go for for you. But but at least you should be involved in taking ownership of that situation and learning about what the options are that are out there. And, like, we've covered multiple times, a lot of people just aren't even aware of these options. So, I I do agree it's exciting for sure, and and I, think you're fighting the good fight. And, I thank you for spending some some time with us today, Nate. Speaker 2
Well, thanks for having me. I I appreciate it. You know Where Speaker 0
can people find you online? How can they reach out to you? Speaker 2
Oh, you, you can go to directed IRA dot com. If you if you wanna book a call with me, I'm right there on the book a call page, down under the executive level. You can find me on Instagram always posting things about self directed IRAs. I think my Instagram handle's nate hare official. So, yeah, if you wanna follow for some more nerdy tax tricks and all that stuff or tax trip tax tips Speaker 0
There you go. Speaker 2
Follow me on Instagram or, you know, search me out on the website. Speaker 0
Awesome. Thanks so much, Nate. Really appreciate it. Speaker 2
Yeah. Anytime. Speaker 0
And to the listener, thanks for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Speaker 2
Thanks, Jimmy. Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us on from adversity to abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire. 
