Our integrity income fund provides monthly cash flow from an investment backed by hard. Physical real estate, our income fund which is uncorrelated to publicly traded stocks and bonds invests. In first lien, mortgage notes Diversified by geography property value and borrower type. So you're not investing in one project. You're investing in a diversified portfolio of first lien mortgage notes. Our integrity income fund aims to pay its investors monthly distributions at a preferred rate of return of 8% annually. Possibly, the best part though, the fun showcases, a short 12-month commitment. So you can invest your Capital today and have access to that capital in one year. Check it out today. Labrador Lending.com Welcome everybody, to another episode of the form adversity, to abundance podcast. I am your host Jamie Bateman. And today, I am excited to have with us Sean, barbarous of more than money 360. He's the founder of more than money 360. Sean. How are you doing today? Don't great. Jamie. Thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to. Absolutely, I am excited to dive in. I know we have a limited time here, so we're going to get right to it. So who are you today? What are you up to today and tell our listeners kind of little bit about your Innocent and what you do today? Sure. Yeah. Well today I have spent most of my time on various Zoom meetings with clients and centers of influence that we work with. Also, had a meeting with global broker-dealer that we also work with, and we have found the partnership model to be very successful for us, you know, our company. What we have done is we have created a proprietary technology to help families, communicate Ultra high-net-worth. Please communicate about the purpose of the family wealth? And certainly give everybody a seat at the table. Often times the rising generation feels dictated to. There's research out there that indicates 93% of the time. The rising generation feels that her parents were just kind of telling them what they do, that can increase resentment all those sorts of things. So we give everybody in the rise of generational. We call a chip, a chair and a chance and give him a seat at the table. And we helped spark these conversations around communication family Legacy. Attitude philanthropy, family governance, The Business of Being a successful family and certainly core values. So that's a little bit about what we do. We are the first where the first company in the industry to have a proprietary technology to help families prepare for and engage in family meetings on what we call the qualitative side of the world. Okay? Now that's great, that's there's so much, you know, I would love to unpack there. There's a ton of things. You said that I am like, oh that's what I want to talk about. That's what I want to ask him about but And for the listener out there, just to throw this in there. Episode 40 was with James Harold web, and he mentioned Sean's company. And that, if you have not listened to that episode, I highly recommend you go back and listen to that one. So, fantastic. Fantastic story that James has and I know, you know, him, well, Sean and it's, it's such a small world, it's crazy that you and I actually live probably within 15 minutes of each other, and We were introduced by James who does not live near us. He's in Cabo right now. He's yeah, yeah. James has been he's been a client since 2016 and about 2018. He morphed from client, very dear friend, and the whole family is really absolutely spectacular. Matter of fact, I would suggest people stop listening to this episode. Hey, go back and listen to that one. Yeah. One of my favorite episodes, and I am reading his book now, and I am also reading a book called entrusted, which is another kind of David York. Yeah, we know exactly in the same industry, if you will, which is yeah, he's an attorney by trade out of Salt Lake. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Wonderful guy. Just trying to be in, you know, taking control a lot of this show. The lot of the theme of this show is about taking ownership and being intentional and taking control. Love not only your own personalized but you know, those around you as far as impacting people in a positive way and really looking at your family and obviously, everyone's situation is different, but I think your story, Shawn is really going to appeal to The Listener out there. So let us dive in, let us jump into your backstory, and you can start at whatever Point you'd like in your own backstory, but I know we talked a little bit about couple of points of types of adversity. Now that you have dealt with before we hit record, we hit on a couple of those one having to do with some health issues and another more focused on your business where would you like to start? Well, we can start anywhere you want, buddy. Now, I will follow your lead. Whatever you think is best, okay, well, I know you mentioned some personal health challenges that you have been through. And so the, you know what I found with this show is These human elements that everyone goes through on some level and up these human types of adversity, I should say, end up falling into Health financial or relationship for the most part or some combination thereof. And I know you have dealt with some version of all three you know. But regarding your own personal health challenges, can you touch on that and dive into kind of what you have personally dealt with on the health side of things? Yeah, sure. So back in 2010, 25th. I was on a boat with two friends of mine on the Chesapeake Bay, and we stopped to have lunch at a restaurant Emeril's called the Harvey W Cafe and I have never been to, and we took my buddies by Buddy's boat over there and I started working out with actually an ex-marine the week I for and I woke up one morning and my right leg was numb and I just thought maybe a pinched nerve or something along those lines and being a stubborn Greek man, I just kind of kept going Sure. And you know it didn't go away so Wednesday Thursday I call up my doctor at Hopkins and I stay, you know Dr. Fine. This is going my legs Nam, and he says, well, you know, keep an eye on it. Let me know if it gets worse or let me know if it's friends and I said, okay you got it. So that Friday I am on the boat, and we're at this hardly a cafe and you know I am walking to go to the restroom and it's just a regular wood deck and there was maybe half an inch Between two pieces of wood and I couldn't lift my foot over it. I tried every fiber of my being that left my leg up and I couldn't do it. So I called my doctor, and he says well I said yes it's on my arm he says get here. Now I said well this has been of a problem. I am on a boat I don't have a car, so I walk up to my buddy Scott Ian I say and meanwhile Scotty is Mr. Social I mean so Scotty has a table. 15 people, like three of us went on the boat. Scotty creates a crowd. So welcome to Scotty, has a Scotty, my doctor wants to see me right away. Can't feel my arm can't feel my leg, and he says ladies and gentlemen, I left my son back in my house, I am so stupid. How dumb am I? And he calls his son who I was friends with, and he says David I need to get to my house right away. You're doing Shawn a favor, his son leaves, working Friday, afternoon drives home and Scotty yells out. Oh I need a second captain. He's like oh yeah Sean you be my second captain. Okay great. So he drives me back to us. House. I get in the car, go up to see my doctor at Hopkins, and he does that whole thing where they, you know, hit your knee and test shall we share? And when I got to my right leg, I literally kicked him in the chin and his chin started bleeding, and he said, they were a dick. I think we're going to take a trip down the Hopkins. So he said, leave her car. I am driving it down. Meanwhile, my wife, I love her. You know, she doesn't know anything, and I am taking off is going to come back a pinched nerve. So we walk into the Hopkins ER and it looks like a scene out of a movie. There's me Just absolutely packed. There was a gentleman on coming on the stretcher screaming that the devil was trying to kill him and all kinds of crazy stuff. Wow, my doctor said Sean sit. There he flung, open the two doors and I heard him yell at the top of his lungs. Where's the attending neurologist? So, about 20 minutes later, I am in a room about 1:00 AM they sent me into an MRI for 90 minutes. And now, I am back in my room at 3:00 AM and everybody's reviewing the MRI results. And the attending a neurologist comes in and says, Sean. We have narrowed it down to three things and I said, okay, what are they? He goes. Well, number one, it's infection, it's HIV, or line. And I said, I don't mess around on my wife, and I am never in the woods. He said, okay, second thing is this cancer of the central nervous system which my face just drop. And then the third thing is, its multiple sclerosis. And I look back on that him and I will clean up the language. But my exact words were, it's a pretty effed up night when I mess is good news. Absolutely yeah. Yeah, pretty much. And, you know, admittedly I did Know much about Ms. And you know, I got emotional I you know, I have a, I have a son who has some special needs, and I am just wondering who's going to be around to play ball with them? Who's going to be around to take care of them? Sure. I didn't really understand it, so I got very emotional at that point and yeah I can't and you know that created some challenges in life for sure. Yeah and just for more context and I appreciate you sharing, you know it's not always easy to touch on this type of thing and unfortunately we end up Kind of glossing right over a lot of the real pain and both personal and I know it's affected, you know, others in your life as well as anything this serious always does. But again, what in approximately what age were you if you don't mind sharing that? Yeah. So gosh, it was 2010. So I was 37. Okay, I will be 50 next week. I will be okay, nice, happy birthday. But yeah, just for context for listener to understand, kind of, you know what your, what phase of life you're in at that point that and so, yeah, I can't, I can't imagine. I mean, I have never dealt with anything personally that challenging as far as a health issue and yeah, you know, the first two years, we're miserable, you know, doctors. I have, in my opinion, one of the best neurologist, you can have Peter. Calabria. Absolutely phenomenal. But Even he said Shawn look, finding the right medicine for you is trial and error, you know, we're not going to know what's going to work, what's not going to work. So I am giving myself needles every day with Jingles Copaxone and then read them, we couldn't find the right medicine for two years and I just kept getting lesions and attacks. So 2010 to 2012 was really rough and then fortunately we got the Medicine figure it out and things have stabilized considerably since 2012. So yeah, you know, but it's crazy. My doctor when I was first diagnosed To put me on all kinds of he's worried, I am Type A, and I am a driver and you know, that type of personality, and he was worried about me getting depressed. I am, so he wanted to give me all these antidepressants anxiety stuff, and he was definitely concerned about that. Sure. Yeah. But yeah, you know, we fought through that and, and that wasn't as much of an issue. And really once I got past the 2012 Range, I remember I was there for my annual MRI, and he says, how you do? I said, doc, I Been Never better n*****. Hey listen. He's like what do you mean and as 2013, 14 15, 16 and Beyond and really each successive year I have actually formed a high level of gratitude for my diagnosis. It really taught me a lesson about what's important. It taught me a lesson about surrounding yourself with people that care, you know, I have adopted a motto that my business partner OED fund or has impressed upon me since 2016 and that's No, your actions speak so loud. I can't hear a word. You're saying, lots of people say things are fewer people do what they say. Sure. So, trying to surround myself with people that their actions speak so loud. Yeah, stand there with your saying, where their actions are supportive of our mission, both business and up my family person. Yeah. That's, you know, I don't, it's amazing that you're able to have that much gratitude for a diagnosis that obviously was Young at the time and you know so and I do want to dive in very soon as far as kind of your the journey to your situation now with your business and everything. And I am sure your health challenges have impacted how you view your business as you kind of started to allude too there. But, you know, a lot of our listeners they have been through. Maybe something similar or different, you know, challenge. But I think one of the things Taken away from listening and talking to people who have been through some real hard times is yet. First, your focus on when you get this bad news and, and obviously, have to work through it. It's not just the news, but there's a period of time when you're focused on yourself and I think you have to be, and I am not trying to play therapist here or you know expert on how to get through an MS diagnosis by any stretch. But I think there's a period of time when you're focused on kind of processing and then in And yourself and your own pain. And then there's a period of time when maybe you start to take your vision and place it on others and serving others, and you mentioned surrounding yourself with others. What did that just before we move on from this topic, what did that look like for you, you know, as far as that Journey mentally from focusing on yourself to then kind of focusing on serving others? Yeah, I mean, that's a heck of a question. I don't think everything that I experienced with Ms. Was wrapped around houses, going to affect my son. That's what would keep me up at night. That's what, you know, quite frankly, you know, when I was first, when I was first diagnosed, I mean the unknown is very scary and sure under some still getting my arms around it. But yeah, I was most concerned How this would adversely impact my son, and obviously my wife who just unbelievable and every way. But, you know, it has to come from within. And some way you have to believe in yourself, you have to believe that you can overcome it, you have to, you have to find a way to make it a positive, when something negative happens to you in life. And, you know, I got to have a child with special needs, and he's going to be 16 in April and you know, he's not out partying, and he's not out drinking late at night and yeah, lots is mother more than anything in the world. Now most 16 year olds are not that way. She's not trying to hang out with us too much right now. But yeah, no, I know that it's a great point. It's all about your perspective, and there are blessings and positive in every situation if you're looking for it. So, it sounds like having been through these hard times, it's really helped. You kind of keep things in priority in perspective and reorder your priorities. In some way, not saying they were out of whack before. But this type of challenge can really help. Help you focus and focus your G and your efforts. So walk us through kind of go ahead and look like you're some mistake, you bring up an interesting point because one of the ways that it absolutely changed me was, you know, prior to 2010, my entrepreneurial Spirit was, let us go make money and help people. Yeah, and post 2010 margin or entrepreneurial Spirit was, let us go change the world and hopefully we can make money. Thank you. Did definitely flip on its head. Okay. Now that's really interesting but it absolutely had it. Act on my entrepreneurial spirit and you know, I once had a financial services company that we started me and two partners from three of us. We grow at the 79 registered representatives from Naples, Florida Baltimore, Maryland, 220 insurance brokers. So, you know, building businesses is something that I that, I enjoyed. But the reason behind it change considerably that they heard, okay, be a few years after that day, once it also is Sher Singh, right? Right. But looking back, that was the central or the pivotal moment I guess in what led to that. So that's Yeah, that's fantastic. So and I, you know, I love the fact that the both ways, you presented entrepreneurial, the entrepreneurial Spirit or Endeavor, you know, or they're both positive things in my mind is making money and serving others, right? But so, they're not like counter to each other and it's not like one is good and the other is evil, but flipping the priority, that's an interesting. I hadn't really thought about it. Exactly in the that context. So yeah, let us talk about how you then what happened with your house. How did you create your current business? And what's that Journey been like? Yeah sure. So my wife and I are both attorneys by trade. I started working with successful business owners back in 2000, 2001. As I mentioned before, I got into the financial services business had a bunch of professional athletes entertainers but you know the small business owners small medium-sized business owner was kind of my bread and butter and I was with a client in Q4 of 2006, and we were doing some estate planning for him and his wife and his three daughters and you know, you get done the estate planning process and it's that it's a process, not an event. Ask James. I use that James. Yeah, but certainly there's usually this exhales and this client I know mine was a very cool, blue analytical, he was not very expressive. He didn't use dramatic language, she really was very introverted and quiet. And so we got done this long estate planning process, and everybody, signs a document, everybody leaves the big conference room. We have all been there and I look at my client, he looks absolutely miserable, and we will call him Fred. I Said Fred? What gives you look like somebody? Just kicked your puppy and his response changed the course of my life. He said, Sean, I am terrified and when he used that language terrified Be really caught my attention. I am terrified that this money will just mess up my three little girls. So I asked what you go do about, he said, show me what to do and I will do it. He goes we go to church every Sunday. We have Sunday dinners together to and I believe the other one went to top liberal arts school, you know, but they're not prepared to Manders the complexities of wealth or not prepared to make group decisions are not prepared to resolve conflicts, because obviously people have different opinions and will disagree sure. So that really caught my attention and his use of the word terrified. And then I did kind of my own informal polling and talk to some of my other business owner clients and I asked 12 on my business owner clients, are you worried about the negative impact of wealth? We know, historically wealth is a source of disunity, I mean, look at the Vanderbilt family. Look at the Getty family. Sure, yeah. Hate to say it now. But, you know, there's there're families today that are in the Baltimore Sun that are fighting over money. Money can be that source of disunity. So just real quickly, we're going on a mission to flip that on its head and make Current wealth, a source of unity and empowerment for families, and the rising Generations. So that's what really, that's what really got me going to create more than money. 360. I walk to my owners meeting of the financial services company that I told you that January of 07. And I said, ladies and gentlemen, kids of all ages, there is a hole in the middle of the professional planning, donut successful, families are concerned about talking about wealth, with their children, they're concerned that their children are prepared to handle. Well, they're concerned about creating trust fund babies and their About entitlement winning the war against gratitude and those types of important topics. Sure and we didn't have a system processor structure to address that and that's what more than money. 360 is sure it's a proprietary technology that nobody else in the industry. Has the biggest family offices and Global broker-dealers. Come to us then riaa is yeah, because we look at the quarter. Analysis is about 27 months, to build it, you know, anywhere between 8 and 11 million bucks and hmm. You know, was no small undertaking, that's all the time. I mean yeah, fill in the blank big bank, it's not the money, it's the time. Sure. But when I talked to those companies I say, is there anything better than right now? You know? Yeah, you can wait twenty-seven months if you want to build yourself and go ahead and do it. But what's better than now? So we try to get, we try to get the tools and everybody's hand as best we can. And back in 2007, I started a company a speed up a SPID, a 360 named it after my grandfather who Born in Sparta, grease on overwhelmingly, proud of my Greek Heritage and if you research the Spartan warrior, they deem their Shield, not their sword, their Shield as their greatest weapon because it protected them to fight for their family. Another day, that's what a speed of 36 team. Also, provides that technology help families fight for another generation to grow. Not only their financial wealth, but their qualitative wealth as well. So that's what led me into that. And I said to my partners we got to build a process, and they looked back at me and said that sounds expensive, and they were right. Yeah, CCO didn't like it so, you know, Tammy, kind of shot it down. So I said, here's my third eye, I got to go follow my passion here. Hmm. I am so that's what I did. Okay. So and you're driving force. Truly was trying to add value and solve that problem for those families. It sounds like that, right? Yeah, I mean, you know, part of My Success is I guess my fiance, my confidence or my arrogance in some ways, but, you know, I was I was doing a lot of life. And life insurance is a commoditized product and I thought that I was better than selling a commoditized product but I didn't know how to add value that. Nobody else was adding yeah, talk a little bit about that but that's because that's been a bit of a blessing and a curse. Okay? So I just felt that I could impact families in a different way. That's because there's life insurance in strategic age was probably a credibly important but less strategic and more transactional in a sense. Is that, is it fair to say, without doubt less transactional? I am a I perform much better in, in that relationship based sure. Professional long-term approach. Got it. Absolutely. Okay. My personality better and the unique value of it. It's if you need a life insurance policy, you need your money manager. You need to stay planning docks. Yeah, yeah. I can. Lots of public speaking ass. Raise your hand. If you wanted to fire your wealth manager today, her attorney or accountant? How hard would it be to find somebody to replace them? Right. Not very hard right now, very hard. But, you know, find somebody to replace Facilitating your family meeting that's strengthening family Unity. Elderly elevating intentionality gratitude shared values. Purposed impact. Yeah. You know, we're not on every corner and I love that. And that was a big risk. It was a big risk, but okay, I love it. So tell me we're going to dive into. I know you mentioned before that, you had a lot of naysayers along the way. Let us dive into that a little bit. I know you touched on it already with a few people who said that's expensive. Your Earners and all that but talk about the people who told you couldn't do it. Yeah, I don't want to mention their names because a couple of them work for me. Now work with me. Now, I should say, and, you know, they do not meet wonderful people. Yeah. So I had lots of people that told me, you know, Sean what you're doing, has no money in it, families, don't care. You know, you're wasting your time, you're wasting your money. You're not going to make it. I have had people flat out. Tell me Sean, you're going to fail your, you're building something that nobody wants. I heard that more than a couple times. And you know, that wasn't easy and sure I put their pictures. You can't say oh but I had her pictures on my wall right in front of me, above my butt, my three computer, screens and nice and motivate me every day. All the people that told me we couldn't do it and now we have done it in Spades and you know again that's just goes back to my I mean every entrepreneur has to have a level of confidence. Yeah, absolutely. And believing it just I believe that what I was doing was the right thing and I believed that we were going to impact and help families and in turn the world to help them funnel their philanthropy and get them more engaged in philanthropy. Sure yeah. Yeah one thing I have been thinking about recently is just the role of ego and you know in life and in success and that kind of thing. And I this is just my opinion, right? But seems like in the last, I don't know ten years. It's been popular too. Kind of bash the ego and Bash and you know, put that aside and basically say that everyone's ego is Bold. They need to chill out and be more stoic all the time. I do think just like anything it can get you can get run away can run away and be too extreme and be a terrible thing right? But I think you need an ego. I think you need some kind of, you know, passion and like you said, driving force that you're going to be a success and confidence. I mean, you know and people walk that people like Michael Jordan walk that line all the time. As far as confidence to Cockiness where is that? I know Joe. Oboro just said he, he walks that probably crosses that line a little bit, but I don't think you can not have some type of driving force and what I would call it ego and, and still be a success. So I give you credit for her, you know, staring at the face of adversity and the naysayers and continue to move forward. So before we look at and I do have some questions to fire off as well. But before we look at the Kind of your profile of your customer, a little bit more talk a little bit more about your own entrepreneurial journey and just kind of what did that look like, you know, it was it all you or like, you know, what did you build a team right away? How did you approach speak to the entrepreneur out there? Who wants to start a business or just started a business? What would that look like? Well, you're the first thing you have to do is research the market that you're going. That's the first thing we did was research. You know, what is the Legacy governance industry look like? How is business being done today? Today, where the touch points, where the pain points. Why does this industry even exist? What problem, are they trying to solve and how could we solve it better? So research was the first piece we needed to know the market in great detail. We need to know what was good about the market. We need to know what was bad about the market, and we were able to identify that in our research, which, which took time which takes time and money was no doubt about her but without that, you know, without having that fact-based approach, you know, you'd always be wondering. Well, am I guessing here? Whereas if we did cold hard research, we knew from the facts and the data where a particular service was needed and where it wasn't. So that's the first thing we did was research, you have to know, you have to know what you want to do and you know kind of begin with the end in mind so to speak. No tactically. Speaking is that you hire a company to do that or do you just start googling or what does that look like to do the research in your case? No way. We brought somebody in a hard somebody, right? You got it? Okay. Thanks. Absolutely, absolutely got it. And then you have already said you heard, this wasn't your first business. I mean you have had a track record of successful businesses in an entrepreneurial Journey along the way. So I can only imagine that you have had lessons that you learned along the way that you applied to this business as well. But talk to kind of what, you know, from inception through what the growth of your company with. Employees or just how you have been able to scale? What did that look like? Well, originally more the money 360 was not intended to be a business. It was intended to be the personal practice of shown Barbara's. By got it, okay? And that's what it was up until 2016 and I had no intention of doing anything differently. And then we were talking with a company called family art, which does kind of video archiving Legacy planning our Legacy, and they would create like Legacy videos and things of that nature. Nature and oppose speaking to the gentleman there. Remember his name? Mike Stewart, and I was trying to create some sort of strategic partnership that could lead to me working with some more families and things of that nature, anything. You know what? I want to show? I want to show you more than money, 362. One of my advisors I use as family Arc and the gentleman's name was really defund or films July 2016 and I started talking to him about how I systematize didn't create a technology around preparing families to engage in qualitative family, meetings, He slams his hand for 56 minutes in. Jamie John stop. Okay, he says where you been all my life because I don't stop. I have been doing it manually. But ours is somebody who has been an incredible? Incredible Mentor for me. Row will be 71 next week, and he sponsored he doesn't like the word adopted. He is sponsored 78 orphans in Zambia. He's been to Zambia 41 times in 30 years. And he's like I am going to Zambia next week I will be back in August call me we will get together. Okay, fine, we will do that. So I did, so I called him, he signed up, and he said, you know, I want to be an advisor like you are, I want you to make me the next advisor that uses your technology. So it's okay. Fine. So I did it and my wife and I are blessed. We bought a beach Place, back in 2003, and I am walking into our beach plays Labor Day, weekend of 16 and my phone rings and it's rally. He says Sean I want to buy your business, and so we're really it's not for sale. Who's everything's for sale? What? Right, I said, well, he's a fiery, red New Yorker, that's what doctor. And I said, well, I thank you very much for the offer, but, you know, the concept of more, the money is in my heart and my soul. I mean, it is literally more than money. Yeah, it's totally about more than money for me because I respect that. Thank you. So then, September 14. I just found the letter. I come back and I found was I find this letter camera 14th. 2006 Shauna enclosure will find a check for six figures. This is my investment. Thew unsolicited. The man sent me a six figure checks, the last sound. Like here's the last paragraph. I just found it. I am going to frame it. This has been great. I realized my gesture was unorthodox in a day of distrust and rampant this honesty, but I wanted you to know that I support you in your efforts. I want to partner with you to change the wealth management industry look forward to our Partnerships really deep. Wow so that's how that's the day that MTM 360 became a business. That's why I will yeah, he's probably is a forward thinker. He's the jet, fourth generation of his family. They started defender of capital in 1875 because the wonderful human being. So that's when we said, okay, let us make it a business and that's what we have done ever since. And thankfully has a ton of success. Yeah, so speak to that success a little bit. I don't know how comfortable you are getting into any, you know, numbers or anything like that but just speak to maybe, maybe your client. Profile or the amount of business you do? What is just kind of high level? What is your business look like for the listener out there? So we have the deepest bench of family meeting facilitators in the industry. We have 16 family meeting facilitators, all of which present zero conflict of interest to any investment professionals Insurance professionals attorneys accountants. Whatever may be, and we have an advisor partnership program. We call more than money. Align empty Emeline. We align I am with the professional advisor who he or she introduces their, their clients to our service through them. One of the mistakes we made is we went straight to the high-net-worth. Family said, John that sounds great. I love it, and he or she would go to their advisor and say you know who this Shawn guy is, I am not lying, right? That's a terrible idea. If somebody else that can do so forth and so on, so yeah, we made the decision to work through the advisor that has been an absolute Grand Slam for us. Are aligned advisors receive a dashboard in our technology? They can see everything that we see another saying around are around, our company is transparency. Breach, trust thing, its human nature. I think Jamie baton is hiding something from me. Well, what is he hiding? Why is he hiding? Does he not trust me? He's not like me, does he do? I think I can handle it, whatever may be, but that lack of transparency is absolutely elevates distrust. So, transparency, breach trust and everybody can see one another's. Orioles. And that was a real current Grand Slam for us. And you know for the longest time you know, I had my eight families on the platform and had about oh, I don't know, I guess it was about 55 individual family members on the platform and now we have over 150. We have capacity for 330. You know, we have Partnerships with some of the largest family offices and Global broker dealers in the country saw. So that's a little bit about What we started now, we have done it. Yeah, what's that can you speak to the typical profile account? You know, not getting into names or anything like that. But, but what's how much wealth are we talking about in a typical client family? I think it's 25 million and up many of my fellow facilitators you know that work with us believe that it's 15 million and up I personally don't have a client that's not worth a hundred million dollars. That's just me the way my personal practice has worked out. You know? So it ranges, and I am also of the belief that you don't need to be financially wealthy to believe your net worth is more than money. The believe that your life experience and your family unity and your core values and the philanthropic causes that are important to your valuable, you don't have to be wealthy. Sure. But what brings people to the table is, oh, I have accumulated X number of dollars, and I am concerned that it's going to have a negative impact. I am concerned, and I am going to be trust, fund babies, all the things we talked about at the top of the show. Sure. I am so the more financial wealth you have, the more that is at risk because we know 91% of wealth transfers fail in two generations, right? Well what's the definition of fail? There're three elements. The legacy is slowly forgotten or homogenize, the financial wealth is dissipated and the family units fractured either through miscommunication. No communication or litigation Little Johnny's. I am talking to little Susie for some reason and you have seen it historically. Goodbye think it's sure Hulu show now about the Getty family and You know, there're all kinds of things that are all kinds of, you know, families that have had everything and lost it all and so forth. So you address all three of those aspects. Correct in your practice got it. Now it sounds, it's amazing. It's really, really cool. So and now, so since 2016 the business has just continued to scale from that point. I think, by the end, I think, at the end of 2000. So we kind of launched a team aligned in A Thousand Seventeen. I think, by the end of 2018, we had maybe eight a line Partners. I think now we have over 50 that's great and growing. I love it. It's a very important topic. And it's, yeah, you it's a lot to be said for the undertaking and there's a lot of work behind the scenes that I know goes into all this, but it really does. I mean, congrats for, you know, making it fulfilling your, your purpose, it sounds like and your passion. I mean, it's, it's very glass. There's no doubt. I am very blessed. I mean, I got a few people to have a center millionaire but his hands on your shoulder with tears in his eyes and say I can't thank you enough for what you have done for my family. I didn't think we could do this that it really is sure because it's not about the money. It's right it's more not selling anything else. Only thing we want for your family is to communicate better become more, unified more impactful, more purposeful and more wealthy. There's nothing wrong with making money. Right? But it's how it's what's the purpose of that wealth? And is that, well, it's going to be a source of disunity and disagreement like it has traditionally, or are we going to flip it on its head and make it a source of unity and empowerment? And that's what we do. Awesome, I love it. Money can be money is very powerful and it can be used in very good and very bad ways, so I love it. So I do have a few questions. I am going to fire off, and then we will wrap it up here. What's one thing that people misunderstand about you? My passion, my passion comes across as me being pushy without doubt got it without the understood. My head to toe passion for this concept of more than money and It's haunting come across as pushing. There's no doubt about it. I am trying to work on it but I have been working on it since 2007. Very good job. Yeah, don't go too far though. You know it's probably part of your part of the reason for your success but what's one of your biggest failures or however you want to frame it? Some people don't like using that word. But one of the biggest things, maybe regrets or that you like to have a do-over with maybe in the business world. Now, personal interpersonal visit River. Well, I, I mean, let us just keep it business, I guess, you know, one of the things that I would have liked to do, was Meet Roy Williams. I wish I met Roy. Williams earlier, Roy Williams is one of the Godfathers. In this industry, he ran the institute for preparing errors in Malibu. And I got to meet him in 2014 when he was in his mid 70s, and he said, technology, Sean, he was, I am too old to change my stripes, but he was one of the few that encouragement. He said you're the future. Keep going, keep going, that's awesome. And unfortunately, about six months later, his wife got sick. And then soon after that, he passed away, and I wish he could see what we have created helping people. If you could go back and give your 18 year old self some advice, what would that be? Oh, that's a great one. I probably would have, I wasn't smart enough to get into an Ivy League school. So I probably would have focused more on the cross and try to get a lacrosse scholarship to an Ivy League school, probably would have been here, which I think was more opportunity across family, but we can chat later if you were personally given 10 million dollars, not for your business or not, not from, you know, not to place or manage or anything. But if you were given Your dollars tomorrow. What would you do with it? I would probably put into my son. Special Needs. Trust love it. It's awesome. What's one thing in your business right now? That's kind of big challenge that you're dealing with. Yeah, it's a great question, wow, where to start? Because our said we're having a difficult time. Getting version 6 of the technology live. We were just meeting with detectives. Fortunately, we have hired, two more Tech, folks. So, we have a team now working on it, but That is certainly one of our big challenges from a business development perspective. You know, we're not going to cover off the ball. Again, it's a blessing and a curse to be as unique as we are. It's a blessing because once you get in front of somebody there, oh my God, I didn't know you could do it that way. It's a curse because your phone is never going to ring saying, hey, you have a technology to help us prepare for multiple Generations. Gonna manage the complexities of well, that's never going to happen. So you have to be proactive and go tell the story and that takes time. Yeah. And we have been very proactive to go tell the story and, you know, we're seeing the fruits of that now. But I would say, I would say dealing with the technology development is mostly a straight As I can't believe it. Yeah there's our there's always yeah, that's absolutely. But on the marketing business development side I mean it's you have got a, some people say I don't like salespeople, I don't like marketing people. They're slimy or whatever. It's like. Well if you have something valuable to add You know, to the world and to serve other people, you have got to be intentional about getting your message out anyway. So as we start to wrap up here, what's a one book or two that you could recommend for my listener? Good to great. I love good to Great by Jim Collins without doubt. I think it's chapter 2. I really for quotes that we live by, I think traffic. It was the Truman quote that says, you can accomplish anything you want in this world, provided that you don't care who gets the credit. And that whole concept of level 5 leadership and so forth. I have really tried to do my best to embrace that so good to Great without doubt. And I would also encourage folks, to take a look at Dennis jaffe's book jafe borrowed from our grandchildren, it's 352 pages of Genius. He researched 100 of the most successful families in the world that have lasted 100 years or three generations. And what were the similarities between them? What were, what were some of the things they did compare to the? Armies. I did make it three generations or 100 years. I have read that book probably six times and Dennis is friendly with one of our Navigators, and I was talking with them, and I am showing them how I kind of ripped it all apart. And, and, and what really made me feel good is nearly everything he discussed in that book is in our technology, so that's great. Yeah, it was very supportive of the word validating what you're doing. I mean, don't, I mean, yeah. I mean it was not his He wasn't writing the book that I haven't asked anything you want to address? What's one question that you haven't asked? You know, begin with the end of mine. Where is it? You want to go? Where is it? Where is it? You want to end up? Now I think I would be that would have been a question. I got to ask. Yeah. Awesome. Well when you interview me you can ask that one. No kidding. Absolutely I love it. I know we're out of time here. Sean barbarous, where can our listeners find you? Online LinkedIn? Certainly. I am on LinkedIn. Certainly our website more than money. 360.com is our B is our client website. And they can also email me. Sean shawnte519, IM more than money. Hyphen, 360.com, Sean at MTM hyphen, 360.com. Now be happy to affect answer. Any questions or any thoughts, comments, John. That's awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you. I know some of the stuff is difficult to talk about it. Really appreciate you being vulnerable about the human side of things and opening up for our listener to inspire them. And you know, encourage people that you can make It in entrepreneurship. And that you, that the biggest thing I took away your, one of the biggest was flipping the flipping it from, you know, making money first and serving, other second to serving others is first and making money. As second, You Dropped a ton of other, you know, knowledge bombs along the way, but that was a big one. So, thank you so much for your time. Sean, absolutely. Thank you, Jamie. I appreciate it and I look forward to connecting with you all fine. Sounds great. And to our listeners out there, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us. And that is Your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care.