Episode Rerun: Mastering Adaptability: From Fractured Beginnings to $700 Million Under Management with Dave Van Horn
Episode Details
Transcript
In this powerful rerun episode of From Adversity to Abundance, we revisit the remarkable journey of Dave Van Horn, a seasoned real estate and mortgage note investor who turned adversity into entrepreneurial triumph. From growing up in a divided household and facing financial struggles to eventually managing over $700 million in assets at PPR Capital Management, Dave’s story is a masterclass in resilience, adaptability, and purpose-driven investing.
Dave is the Founder and Executive Chairman of PPR Capital Management, where he leads a firm specializing in residential and commercial note investing. His humble beginnings and relentless drive make his journey relatable and inspiring for anyone pursuing success in real estate or facing life’s inevitable challenges.
🎯 Key Topics Discussed:- Overcoming early life adversities, including family challenges and financial hardship
- The importance of building a diverse skill set for entrepreneurial success
- Navigating business adversity during tough financial periods
- The role of gratitude and giving back in building long-term impact
- Lessons learned from real estate, leadership, and personal development
- "You don’t have to travel 10,000 miles to find something beautiful—it might be in your own backyard.”
- “We have a lot of resources at our disposal. Think beyond profit—invest for impact.”
- Resilience and adaptability can be cultivated through hardship and used as a foundation for success
- Strategic relationships and mentorships are invaluable on the entrepreneurial journey
- True abundance is found not just in wealth, but in mindset and contribution
- Website:pprcapitalmgmt.com
- LinkedIn:linkedin.com/in/dave-van-horn
- BiggerPockets Profile:biggerpockets.com/users/davevanhorn
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Speaker 0
You're gonna love this episode. It's with Dave Van Horn of PPR Capital Management. Dave is the founder of the company, the executive chairman of the board. He has a lot of experience in different aspects of real estate and distressed note purchasing and management and also capital raising and just a lot of, entrepreneurial ups and downs. And Dave's had a ton of success, but it wasn't always easy. That's for sure. We talk quite a bit in the beginning about Dave's, adversity that he faced with his, family life when he was a child and the divorce of his parents and the splitting of his family. Essentially, his siblings were you know, half of the siblings went one way and half went the other, and how many of his siblings didn't turn out so well as far as, you know, their success and and health. Now they're all doing doing well, and, the siblings all get along. So in that sense, there was a lot of it's perfect for the for from adversity to abundance. But we talk about how Dave was a a painter, a real estate agent, a contractor, managed, a title. He ran a title company, loan originator. I think, you know, when it comes to residential real estate, there's not many many aspects that Dave hasn't touched, and now they're in the commercial and multifamily space as well. PPR is a big company, in this space, in the distressed note space. They raise a lot of capital, and, Dave's had a lot of success. I mean, he does humbly mention toward the end that, if you were given ten million dollars today, it wouldn't wouldn't really change his life. So that might give you some indication of the financial success Dave has had. He's a very humble humble guy. You gotta kinda have to pull it out of him as far as, the abundance and success that he's reached. But this is a very relatable, episode. Even if you you may not reach the levels he reaches, has reached, I should say. You know, we do talk about financial hardship as well as relationship hardship, and even a a health challenge that shut down essentially shut down one of his businesses. So buckle up. This is a really, really good one. Speaker 1
From adversity to abundance, hosted by entrepreneur and seasoned real estate investor, Jamie Bateman, is the ultimate guide for active and passive investors seeking clarity, mental fitness, and the confidence to make inspired decisions in the world of real estate. With a decade plus of investing experience across various niches and a background as a combat veteran, former army officer, and multimillion dollar mortgage note company owner, Jamie brings a wealth of knowledge and inspiring stories to each episode. Through weekly episodes featuring insightful interviews with industry leaders and solo explorations of mindset and strategy, listeners will uncover actionable advice and tips to overcome challenges and build lasting financial success. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting, from adversity to abundance is your road map to turning obstacles into opportunities and achieving financial freedom. Speaker 0
Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Bateman. I'm thrilled today to have with us Dave Van Horn. Dave, how are you doing today? Speaker 2
Unbelievable. How about yourself? Speaker 0
I'm doing great. We we, so Dave Dave is the, the founder of PPR Capital Management and also the executive director, and we can get into that later. And I for the listener out there, I have a lot of respect for Dave. I followed Dave through the years and and, certainly the five or six years that I've been in note investing space, but even before that through BiggerPockets and some other, avenues. But, I I know you, you've had a lot of adversity and a lot of, abundance in your life, Dave, and we're gonna we're gonna get into that. So for the for the listener out there, why don't you drill down a little bit more on some more context as far as who you are and what you're up to today? Speaker 2
Yeah. Sure. Like I said, you mentioned I'm executive chairman of PPR. So, you know, I run the board and oversee the CEO. We had a new CEO of PPR. Up until recently, though, I was president and CEO for the last several years, and we just celebrated fifteen years of of PPR. We were a PPR note company. Today, we're PPR capital management. So been a name shift, been a brand shift, and things are good. So we're excited. And we don't just do, notes and mortgages anymore. We also do, some commercial real estate as well. So, our funds we we have a fund that's real estate backed assets. It's a little more diversified than it was when we started out. So that's pretty much and I came from the real estate world. Previous to that, I was a contractor. Over the years, I've done several things. I've had various licenses, you know, real estate license, insurance license, was a property manager, owned a title company for a while. So I've done a lot of different things over the years. But in recent years, was mostly a fund manager and ran a company and scaled it and things like that. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, you're you're you're humble, and I think you're selling the selling it short slightly. And, hopefully, I did say executive chairman, not executive director. But, regardless so so talk to the listener about kinda what's the a little bit more about the size of PPR or kind of some of the funds you've managed in recent years, to give them a little bit more context. Speaker 2
Sure. We I'm trying to think how many funds have we had since the beginning. Nine or ten, I would guess. I'd have to go look. We have a lot of entities. There's probably fifty entities. You know? We're not a super large shop personnel wise. We're around thirty people. But we do have some JV partners that have sizable shops as well. So we, you know, we have a JV partner on the West Coast that has significant number of people. They also have a trade desk in New York. And then we also have some other JV partners on the commercial real estate side, and some of their teams might be a dozen or fifteen people, that kind of thing, with folks that we partner with. So we would probably have more employees, you know, if we did everything ourselves. We, you know, we may have a hundred and fifty employees at that point. But as far as assets under management, we're in the, you know, seven hundred, eight hundred million range. And private equity wise, we're probably just under three hundred million, if private equity. But we how do I say? We recycle a lot of that money. So it's a little bit different than, you know, if we were just, say, a commercial real estate shop where, you know, it's kinda like you put money to work and and you wait. You know? We're we're constantly, probably on about seventy five percent of our business. The money's moving, you know, rapidly. Mhmm. Speaker 0
You know, Speaker 2
it's going out. It's coming back. It's going out. It's coming that kind of thing, which is a little bit different than, you know, a typical real estate fund that's Sure. You know, more, you know, complacent or whatever. Speaker 0
More static. Yep. Speaker 2
Yeah. More static. Speaker 0
Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense. And I know I remember when I Speaker 2
was assets, that's a good question. Most of them are today are in, Georgia and, you know, the like, we have some multifamily. It's round a thousand units It's mostly in Georgia and Texas. You know, we're kinda newer to the space. But loan wise, yes. Definitely well over twelve thousand probably since we started. It's common for us to probably buy about three to four hundred million a year. We sell a lot of REOs. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
Probably several hundred REOs a year, just to give context. So Sure. And that's Absolutely. Nationwide mostly, you you know, to be honest. The commercial real estate's typically in the Sun Belt or high growth areas or maybe a couple tertiary markets, but it's kinda where we're focused and Yeah. More of a diversification type play. Speaker 0
Yeah. And you like you said, you moved into that a little bit more more recently. Yep. And that's one of the things I I remember Chris Seveny and I had you on our good deeds podcast a few years ago, and and I remember that one of the big lessons I took from that was, you said, just tell me what the rules are, and I'll figure out a way to win. So I remember kind of what my biggest takeaway was flexibility and adding, you know, tools to your tool belt, if you will, so that no matter what happens with the economy, no matter what happens with legislation, you can react and, and still still profit and still, Speaker 2
you Speaker 0
know, do good. So, hopefully, we can dive into that in a little bit. But, Sure. As far as adversity goes, let's jump into your backstory. I know before we hit record, we touched a little bit on a a couple of of, types of adversity that you faced. Why don't you start start where you'd like to as far as, you know, in your history, and and we'll pick it up from there. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think everybody has some adversity. But then again, we I'm kinda grateful for where I'm I am too. You know? So I I feel blessed and, you know, things can always be worse. Right? But I think we all go through adversity, and I think a lot of life is how we respond to things. Definitely, one of the biggest challenges for me, especially growing up was, you know, I was one of six kids, and, my dad left my mom when I was eight. And, it that was pretty traumatic. So, you know, you notice, like, when you have we were blue collar type family. But when you take the breadwinner out of the picture, things go downhill very quickly. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
And then also my family had gotten split in half. So I had three older sisters and two younger brothers, and our family literally got chopped in half. And, you know, eventually, my sisters, went to live with my father, which at the time, they probably thought it was a good idea, but it was really bad idea. Mhmm. And then their lives were, you know, dramatically impacted. You know, I had one sister that went to prison for you know, sentenced to fifteen years in prison. I had a sister who went to reform school. I had a sister that got, you know, she was a mom very early. You know, those those kinds of impacts. Sure. And my, you know, my one sister was, you know, a heroin addict. Mhmm. So a lot of things were negative from that, divorce, so to speak. And, you know, I was fortunate, to be on the right side of that. A couple of interesting things come out of that was, not everybody fares the same way. You know, like, you know, an impact of something like that, you know, to look at me probably on the surface, you're like, oh, you know, Dave has it halfway together. He's also fairly adorable. He Exactly. Yeah. He's done okay. But not everybody came out of that okay is what you learn. Sure. You know, not everybody responds the same way. Sure. A couple weird things that happened. One was, like, me and my siblings, we never fight. You know how you'll see cases where people will you know, I haven't talked to my sister or something. Yeah. Yeah. Me and my siblings, we literally there's no no there's no argument. There's no we because I think because we were separated. Speaker 0
I see. Speaker 2
It's a weird dynamic, right, when you think about it. So it's kinda interesting. Now there was a time period where I hadn't spoken to my father in a good five year period. Now most people can't envision not speaking to their father for five years. Right? Sure. So, you know, later on, you know, I was able to actually reconcile with him and basically kind of forgive types situation before he passed. But it was but the whole time as a kid, though, it was a different road. Right? Because you're what I quickly realized, even at even in fourth grade, I had my first job. You know? It was it was you had to do it on your own. There was no there was no backstop. There was no safety net. Now it did give you trust issues, you know, like, where Mhmm. You're reluctant because if you can't trust your parent, who do you trust? Speaker 0
Who can I trust? That's kinda what Absolutely. Speaker 2
That's kinda what ends up happening. Yeah. And then, you know, you know, there's, yeah, there's weird things that happen that you can't do that normal kids can do. Now it's different when your parent, I think, passes away because it it's that's, like, can't be helped kinda thing. Mhmm. You know, it it it's just a different vibe. You know what I mean? Than it is in a case of, you know, you wonder, did your parent want you or not? You know, those kinds of things. You know? And and it's just a it's a harder thing. Yeah. It gets to the the the big one, you know? Sure. That was early on that had an impact in everything from my education to my, you know you have basically, you had a bootstrap, whatever you did. You know? Speaker 0
Yeah. No. I appreciate you sharing because Speaker 2
I and, again, I know I Speaker 0
know you've talked on lots of other podcasts about how to invest in notes and how to you know, and and your successes and things. And what we're trying to do is highlight, you know, some of the pain that people go through and and and to highlight the fact that you can get through it and you can pull out lessons and not to say you're you'd like that you know, if you had to do it over again that you'd want that it to go that way, but, sounds like you've developed at least a a work ethic and a and a good relationship with your siblings, through through that, challenge. Speaker 2
No. We it's great. And the other weird thing that happened, even though I was, like, a middle child Mhmm. I felt like the oldest of the family I was in because of the way it was. And then if all of a sudden, it was it's almost like I'd say the bigger brother, father type role in a way. Mhmm. Kind of that probably wouldn't have happened if the family was altogether. You know what I mean? Sure. It's like a, you know, looking back on it. So it did change some things. Sure. But, yes, it the good news is everybody's pretty good and for the most part, today. And but not everybody fit comes out of that unscathed. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I I did better than some of the other folks. That's really what it was. Speaker 0
So why would you say that is? I mean, you know, I know there are factors beyond your control, but, you know, looking looking back, why would you say you did better than than the others did? Speaker 2
I mean, it's a good question. Well, some some I think some people you know, I don't wanna set down bad against my siblings. Sure. Sure. Some people have more of a blame or a victim Yeah. Type of mentality. Sure. Maybe I had less of that. Right. And then I kind of figured it would things were on my own. And then I had some, lucky things. You know, you make your luck. And I always worked really hard. Like, my mom was a very good work ethic, very spiritual woman. Mhmm. You know, and we no matter what our jobs were, we did our best. You know? It's that kind of mentality. Sure. We were always on time. We could be poor, but we could be clean. You know? Things like that, that are just ingrained in you. And you you were on you know, you were honest and you had integrity and things like that even though you didn't have much. So those kinds of things carried forward a lot and, you know, things just you know, I I did get fortunate. I I was in, you know, I had really good grades. And, when I was in eighth grade, my mom kinda conned me into taking an entrance exam to a private, school. And I I go, mom, you know, we can't afford to go there. Blah blah blah. And she goes, don't worry. Just see how you do. You won't get in. Don't worry. Just see how you do it. And you kinda know where that went. I ended up getting, a four year academic scholarship, and and that dramatically changed the trajectory of my life because Sure. All of a sudden, I was just surrounded by wealthy folks. And Yeah. It was a very accelerated program, and it got me out of my comfort zone. It was actually, in the next state over. It was, you know, out of the neighborhood. It was out of the, you know, the normal school. And it it dramatically changed things, just that one scenario. You know? So Speaker 0
And I and I personally, I don't believe in self made millionaires or, you know, because every every we all have some kind of help along the way or some kind of luck. You can Sure. It's you know, you can debate that all day long. So maybe you got a lucky break there, but at the same time, you had really good grades. So you wouldn't have gotten in had you not done the the work in front of you. So, you know, I think there's a lesson in that regard. Speaker 2
Combination. I mean yeah. For sure. And then, you know, once I got through there, then it was, alright. How do I get to college? And I'm kind of embarrassed of this, but it it took me five and a half years to get a four year degree. Mhmm. But I paid the first couple years out of my pocket. You know, I went to a state college. I didn't I actually had gotten into Drexel, but I couldn't afford to go to Drexel, really. And I'm from the Philadelphia area. So I I'd gone to a state school in Pennsylvania, which is obviously less than, I had to take out some student loans to finish. But I was trying to pay it as I went kinda thing, which looking back wasn't so bad. But, it wasn't like I was, you know, some of the wealthier kids in school, obviously, they could study more, but they didn't have to work as much. I was actually working four days a week and going to college. So it was that that's one of the advantage that I think some like, when I look at my kids and my grandkids, they're pretty well off. They don't have that kind of adversity, right, to where they Sure. You know, have to take out a lot of debt or they they can't, you know, they don't have to work and then wake up and go to school and try to study and cram and you know, life was much harder. In fact, I almost flunked out, which is kinda ironic now when you look back and you're like, you know, your report card, your bank account when you get older. But Speaker 0
Right. Yeah. Speaker 2
But you're, but when you're young, you know, a lot is meant, you know, what what's your, you know, what's your degree? What's your Speaker 0
Your grade. Speaker 2
Education level? What's your Sure. That kind of thing. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. Looking back, it's nobody nobody walks around and asks me what my GPA was. Right? But, Yeah. Speaker 2
No one asked me to see my report card or anything these days, which is fine because I don't know that I care. Yeah. Speaker 0
So no. I think a lot a lot of what you've said already, a lot of people can can relate to. It definitely sounds like you've you've overcome a lot from your childhood, and and you've touched on it. I mean, it's all about how you respond to adversity. So walk us through from, you know, from college. Speaker 2
Yeah. I know you have a a a Speaker 0
long, story as far as, you know, all the businesses you've run and and everything like that and and startups and everything. But, walk us through kind of from college through today highlighting more of the adversity that you've you've come across. Speaker 2
Yeah. Sure. You know, I had met my wife when I was, like, nineteen. We've been married almost almost forty years. But my, you know, my wife had gotten pregnant before I finished school, so I would it was really tough getting done. And then when I got done school, I could I couldn't even afford an apartment. You know? I, I had a business degree, which technically were a dime a dozen at the time. And, imagine going to college, taking out loans, working real hard, going for five and a half years. You get done and you can't get a job. And I was, yeah. Imagine that. Right? And then I was working in construction, and I couldn't afford an apartment. So I had to move in with my mom. And, you know, we were splitting the bills. And, you you know, it was really grueling. You know, I'd come home from work all, you know, filthy and everything. And, one day, my mom says, well, why don't you try, like, real estate? And that's what I did. I started going to school at night and became an agent. And then, it was working towards my broker's license and, I was, you know, I had, I was handy because I had, worked in construction and I had access to the MLS, but I didn't have capital. And I was taking an investment course to get my broker's license and, and the guy teaching it said, how many people in here have credit cards? And we all raised our hand. And he goes, how many people in here buy houses with credit cards? And all the hands went down. And I remember going home that night telling my wife, I go, I think we're gonna buy houses with credit cards. And she was like, that's not gonna affect my ability to go to the mall, is it? And, like, no. That's a different credit card. Don't worry about it. And, and I don't recommend doing this, by the way. So, hopefully, this doesn't translate like that. But this was prior to cash advance fees and things like that. And what I ended up doing was I would write a credit card check to myself, pay cash for a property, fix it up, move a tenant in, refinance the house, pay back the credit card. And next thing you know, I bought probably ten or twelve houses like that. And over time, they kept upping my limits. Next thing you know, I had, like, a half million in credit card access. And, you know, I kept I knew that I would continue to cash flow, and any money I pulled out on the refi was tax free. So I've built in some wealth and some cash flow. And and then a few years went by. Next thing you know, I had a couple million dollars in equity, and then I'd be I ended up being a lender to other contractors. So Okay. That's kinda how I got into the new business initially was, you know, hard money, private money, lending back and forth to other like minded folks like myself. You know, we we became, you know, basically banks for each other using our lines of credit on our properties and using our re qualified plans, retirement accounts. Speaker 0
And I know you do have the the your book that goes into some detail on on all of that as well. Probably. So but did you have any kind of real estate mentor at that time, or how were you besides before before you got into the lending space and just, you know, real estate You Speaker 2
know, I came through a weird place, in the beginning because I came in as an agent. So Yeah. And I I believe it or not, I there were years, it was nineteen ninety. I was top agent in the company. Mhmm. And there was, like, two hundred and fifty agents and, like, six offices, you know, that kind of thing. And, so I did okay. It wasn't, but I also worked as a cons as a contractor full time while I was an agent, which was a little bit crazy. Because I I had the wrong, you know, I didn't understand leverage. I thought if you worked harder, you know, if you worked real hard, you you did good no matter what. So the more I worked but you run out of capacity. And I was probably older, forties and fifties before I realized it was all about leverage. And it's funny that you say coach and mentor. It was more in my later years. You know, there are many years I've spent well over a hundred grand on coaching and mentoring, you know, in the hundreds of thousands. So most people you know, it's funny if I speak in a room and I say, how many people in here spend more than a hundred grand on coaching? Not too many hands go up. Sure. But, you know, it definitely changed the dynamics, especially when it came to leverage. Because my one coach was that was his favorite question was, what's the one thing that was he didn't say five things. What's the one thing that you're gonna leverage that'll catapult you in the next six to twelve months in your business life or in your personal life too? And it could even be in, you know, your sports team, your coaching. It could be Mhmm. Could be any topic almost. Mhmm. But there is typically one thing that'll really dramatically, you know, move a needle or ten x or a hundred x something as opposed to a lot of things. And we all tend to get, you know, caught in all the minutia. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
And it was a great mentoring and coaching spirit experience from him. And that was a guy named Lewis Shipp who wrote the book. You know, he's wrote several books, but one was business brilliant. And he was from birthing of giants in New York in, very sophisticated group. I was actually a very small fish in that pond. Speaker 0
So now the leverage specifically in your case was other people's money. Is that what we're referring to that you were able to use Speaker 2
to grow? It can be a yeah. I mean, it you know, at first, you think that, you know, capital is definitely something we can all utilize or leverage, but it can also be personnel and technology and education. And and, typically, what'll happen is each quarter or each month or something, it could be a different thing, depending where your business is. You know, like, you know, how there's, like, I say I like to say there's three pillars to every business. Right? There's Yeah. Capital, there's sources of product, and then there's scalability. And one of them is always screaming the loudest usually. Absolutely. So those answers can shift, you know, in my mind. Sure. Yep. So Makes sense. And and I'm not saying you can't leverage a couple things, but usually, there's a needle mover that's really gonna move the needle. You know? And that's Yeah. It's almost like the book, The One Thing. It's it's, you know Yeah. Speaker 0
Great book. Speaker 2
It's that kind of concept of, yeah, there's probably one thing that's really gonna be dramatic. You know? Speaker 0
Yeah. Like the eighty twenty Pareto principle where focusing on the twenty percent. Speaker 2
They took that to another level too. They would do the eighty twenty of the eighty twenty, the four percent rule. You know? And you're like, okay. I gotta really zero in. I I think that type of concept. And then the other one that was real big for me was focusing on what you do best and Mhmm. Getting out of some of the other stuff. And it took me a while because, you know, you know how, like, we like to all wear a lot of hats and things are important and we try to do everything. And one of the things I did in recent years was, you know how you take your whether it's your Outlook calendar, your Google calendar, whatever. It doesn't really matter. Sure. I kinda took that, and then I made, like, three columns, and I had you know, what what I really love to do, I would do it almost for free. Gives me joy. You know, I get great energy from it. You know, I had that category. Then I had a category of stuff I can't stand doing. Why am I doing it? And then I had actually, the hardest category is the middle, which is stuff that, you do. You don't mind doing it. You're okay at it. Right. But it really comes down to should you be doing it? You know? And and Sure. There's a lot of things. Worth. Yeah. And then it's you know, you'll hear people say, you know, time blocking and goal setting and all that. Right. I don't know. I'm kinda getting to the point where my goals did not have any goals or the only thing I wanna be in is the one with no agenda. You know? So it's Absolutely. Funny it's funny how that shifts. And what that's really saying, it doesn't mean I don't have goals. It just means Yeah. I don't have that one. Yeah. Speaker 0
Absolutely. No. It makes Speaker 2
It's a different thing. Right? Speaker 0
Makes total sense. I I had a James Harold Webb was a previous, guest, and he has a phenomenal story, but we had a call after the podcast. And he said a similar thing where, you know, I said, well, should we set another another appointment for a call? And he said, you know, I don't I don't like to put things on my calendar these days. He said, just reach out if you need something. You know? And there was a lot of freedom and and just, you know, just Speaker 2
Yeah. It's like the morning routine. Right? Like, I was, you know, when I was obviously president and CEO, the the routines were very, you know, strict, regimented, systematic, all that good stuff. And in recent times, not that I don't have routines, I do. But, like, you know, sleep's a real big thing for me these days. Another one is I have, like, a almost like a no alarm clock policy even though I get up the same time every day, which kinda sounds ridiculous. But I don't even like an alarm. I mean, I hate it even to catch a plane at the airport, and I'm very guarded with time and and phone. Like, I haven't had a phone in my office in five years. Like, if you look around, there's no phone in. That's fantastic. Call me. Right? So I just Speaker 0
That's great. Speaker 2
I love it. Speaker 0
I I can. Speaker 2
But but but you get what I mean. It's, like, it's very, and I do have a morning routine, like, you know, same as everybody else probably with, you know, exercise or reading and writing. And Speaker 0
you know, Speaker 2
we all have hobbies. And, unfortunately, I have two real, you know, grown adult children, two sons, and I have four grandkids and, Speaker 0
you know, two Speaker 2
grandsons and a granddaughter. So they're a lot of fun. Yeah. You know? Speaker 0
No. And I'm sure you're Speaker 2
hobby in themselves. Right? Speaker 0
Right. Absolutely. But you're you're sounds like the you know, your morning routine, like, sounds like you you do that because you recognize the value of that for your for your life and for others' lives as well. It's not because you're forced to do it. Speaker 2
No. And I meditate. I'll do yoga once a week to stress and, you know, I do exercising and all that. And, I do some intermittent. You know? I like that. Uh-huh. I do like coffee. You know? Yeah. But I also you know, it it is tough. Like, I'm not I'm not yet the one meal a day guy yet. It's it's a noble goal. Speaker 0
Right. There's there's always another level. Speaker 2
Yeah. There's always another level. Speaker 0
Talk to us about you know, because you mentioned, some adversity already on the on the, you know, growing up in the relationship side of things. Yeah. Talk to us about some of the other adversity, maybe financial that you've that you've faced, either in businesses or or per on the personal side. Speaker 2
Sure. I mean, most of the financial if you really look at true adversity, it was obviously in those younger years because it was more it was more basic. You know? Yeah. You gotta take care of food and shelter and things like that. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Later in life, probably the biggest thing was so around the time I was forty two, I had a painting company, and I had that for let me see. A good ten years. And then I was, I had hurt my back, and I it it literally put me out of the business. I actually had to sell sell off contracts. I had to do all kinds of stuff, lay off employees at the peak, and I had twelve employees. And, you know, I couldn't load trucks any I couldn't physically work. I wasn't allowed to lift anything over twenty five pounds. You know, thank God I had the ability to use my education and my brain Brain. My real estate background because, and at the time, I had, I guess I had around twenty properties. At at one point, I I'd gotten up to, like, forty of my own places. Mhmm. And, you know, if it wasn't for that, I would have been in a real predicament. But you could I couldn't, you know, do the physical work I used to do, and it it definitely you know, I shipped it in real estate, obviously, but, you know, life had to change. And, so it it I was I was fortunate. At the same time, I was having problems with my back, you know, because I would get hurt and I'd be out for days. And the with the lesson there was the business revolved around me. And then I realized if I ever have a business again, it's not gonna revolve around me. And that's kinda, you know, when you see PPR, for example Yeah. There's a lot of team behind me. You know? There's Right. A lot of folks. Partners and Sunworks here. There's you know? Speaker 0
Yeah. No. And and, I mean, it's also impossible to scale if it's if you're the, Speaker 2
you know, the Speaker 0
only the key, cog in the wheel. But so what did you do tactically at that point then, to when you, I guess, when you started your next business, how did you approach that to make sure you you weren't the key key player, Speaker 2
if you will? Well, in the beginning, I well, I was an agent, and what I did was, well, I was living off my properties. Obviously, I could do that. And then I, but I started doing multiple streams of income at first. So I Uh-huh. Had a total business. I used to, you know, run mortgages through my wife even. I did property management, and then I focused on investors. So if you were an investor of mine, you might buy five or ten houses. And then, you know, we would do multiple things for you. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
So I would get paid, multiple times, not just the commission to sell you a property. And then I would also be a leasing agent, and then I'd also you know? So I had this, like, kind of a snowball effect. Yeah. Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict Verdict. It's gonna be ugly for a while. And it really was ugly for realtors for a while. Sure. So we were like you know, my partner, John, was a mortgage originator. He was actually an investor friendly lender, and I was an investor friendly agent. And, you know, there was just no I went from at REMAX at the time, I was probably doing seventy five, eighty sales a year easy. I dropped five to seven. You know? So Wow. It it plummeted. You know? So it was a good thing that I did go into distressed debt. Now from another financial adversity, though, was one of the, parties that was initially teaching us the collection side of the business ripped us off, to the soonest several million dollars. And it took a long period of time to go to court. Actually, we got it back, but it was the lost use of the capital that was very painful, and it almost put us out of business. Speaker 0
So the opportunity cost of of not having that capital. Speaker 2
Yeah. Not having the capital was luckily, we had the skills to continue to raise capital and and figure it out our, you know, other ways. But, basically, you know, when someone does that to you, it can it you know, they literally try to put put us out of Speaker 0
business. So, and It's almost like Speaker 2
the bad builder concept. You know how a builder has twenty five or thirty subcontractors in their models to pay no one, and then maybe one or two contractors will sue. They'll settle with one. And even if they lost the case to the one, they didn't pay the other twenty five. Speaker 0
So it's still profitable even though they It's Speaker 2
very profitable. It to them, it's like a business thing even though it's very unethical. Right? Speaker 0
Right. I don't know how I don't know how people sleep at night. Speaker 2
Well, they're out there. Speaker 0
So So tell me, you don't have to go into specifics, of course, but talk a little bit more about that as far as, what was the relationship with this person again and and mainly for the listeners that they Yeah. Speaker 2
It was someone that was selling us assets, and they were, you know, helping us collect on the assets, things like that. Mhmm. And we had, put up some money to obtain assets and then never got the assets. Right? And they ran on money. It's it's like and then you heard a song and dance and all that stuff for a long period of time, and then it was like, sue me. And then suits take years, and and then Sure. You know, eventually, we got it. And and, yes, we got a little bit of interest, but the little bit of interest did not Speaker 0
Yeah. You Speaker 2
know, saw impact it made. Right. Yeah. It was it was pretty devastating, actually. Speaker 0
Sure. The opportunity cost of the money, but also your time and energy. That's A lot Speaker 2
of energy focused on the legal, the chasing, the, you know, dealing with investors, the whole nine yards. Speaker 0
Do you have any lessons learned there that the listener could take away as far as, you know Speaker 2
I mean, yes and no. I mean, you're always well, yeah. Don't wait. Right? It's just like if you're evicting a tenant or Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
You know, a homeowner's not you know, any of those the longer you wait, you're just making it worse. And so there's always, you know, speed means a lot. Move quickly. Right? Don't wait. There's no point in waiting. I guess the you know, I don't know that you can become, say, a millionaire without losing some money somewhere. Right? I've had other cases where I lost, you know, a quarter million or a half million, you know, on a personal side in investing or something. But I don't I don't think, you know, I don't know what the odds are if someone becomes, say, a billionaire who never lost a million dollars or something. I just Sure. Find it probably unlikely, you know, that that could even happen because I'm not saying you wanna go out and try to lose money. I don't need it that way. But I think, that's part of the learning, piece of it. It's, I don't look at it as failure. I think I was just listening to, Sarah Blakely to say something like that when she was a kid that, you know, her father would say, so what do we fail at this week? And he'd high five. You know? Yeah. Yeah. That kinda thing. And it's it's because it's a learning experience, it's really not a failure. Right? So Sure. It's back to kind of what we were talking about with the adversity piece where it's like, you know, how how do we respond to what happened? Absolutely. I know my, I see my son one time. Sometimes he gets bugged at that. He's like, aren't you worried about this in the news, or aren't you worried about that in the news? And I'm like Right. No. No. Because it's how I respond to what you know, let me see what happened, and then I'll make my move. You know? It's it's Yeah. I didn't mean to sound that crazy, but it's kinda like that. It's, I can't worry about what might happen. Now I'm not saying I don't take any precautions. That would be foolish to say that. But Sure. I kinda see what shakes out, and then and then I adjust accordingly. No. I think it's Speaker 0
that's a very valuable piece of of wisdom, honestly. You know, and that's been a common thread among a lot of the guests we've had on the show as far as, you know, not focusing on the big picture, meaning the things I can't control as far as maybe you take that information in as far as you might use it in your analysis, but not not overemphasizing that with regard to your stress levels and and what if this, what if that, what if that, what if this, and and shifting from what if to even if, has been a, a key Speaker 2
Yeah. Sure. Speaker 0
Piece. But I know for me, you know, years ago, I'd I'd made a switch, and I I turned off the the news, you know, the cable news, the network news. It's like and I stopped stopped worrying about all that stuff, and I shifted to okay. My father was also an agent. He still is, technically. My brother was a loan officer. You know, I had title insurance, experience. What are the strengths or what are the team members around me that can help, you know, move this thing forward as opposed to, oh my gosh. Like, we're, you know, I don't know, the next war or whatever. Speaker 2
Yeah. The world's caving in. Sure. Speaker 0
I mean, they're real problems, but I I can't fix it. So Speaker 2
Yeah. It doesn't mean you don't care. Right? It's just you don't wanna get caught up in it. And I I agree with you. I I I'm not a big news person. It doesn't mean I don't, you know but here's what's funny. You hear about the stuff anyway. Right? So it's kind of a Right. Yeah. It's gonna It's gonna find its way to you anyhow. It might be a day later or something. But Speaker 0
No. But you're right about the point of, you know, you can't you probably shouldn't get into business if you're not willing to lose, you know, lose money, business or investing because you're gonna take your take your licks if you do enough deals. Right? Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I don't know. The kind of the way I mean, think about it. We all I'm not saying I wanna be, you know, not care about the investors or money or anything, but I'd also don't wanna live a life of regret either. And it it doesn't mean you're gonna do things foolishly, but it I think you have to I mean, what's the worst that can happen? You know? Yeah. I don't know that you'll be where I was when I was eight. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
I doubt it. You know? And and the other thing is even if you made your first million or whatever, ten million, a hundred million, you didn't you're not gonna forget that as long as you have your mental capacities. Right? You can you can lose everything tomorrow. You're gonna know how to go back and do it again. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Yeah. Speaker 2
It's kinda it's like, I don't even worry about that kind of thing. You know? Yeah. Like, I don't worry about money or anything. Like Yeah. Speaker 0
Yeah. Well, that it really is that even if even if this happens, I can still point to my my strengths Speaker 2
and stuff. Yourself and go back to whatever. Speaker 0
So then before I get to some, some questions I have here, so you mentioned, being a real estate agent for a while. You mentioned painting business. You meant mentioned contracting, and then you mentioned the kind of the distressed, debt space. Obviously, that's what PPR is is known for. And then you've gotten into more kind of commercial real estate more recently and that type of thing. Have we covered have we checked all the boxes as far as the businesses you've you've started? Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, the only the only weird thing about PBR really was it was an accidental business. It wasn't like a heck it wasn't like there was a business a robust business plan. It wasn't like I bought a franchise. Speaker 0
Well, no. That's actually, like so talk about that because, you know, I think that does hold a lot of entrepreneurs back because they think they need this ten year, twenty year vision, and they don't make take the next step. Speaker 2
Well, we actually have a ten year vision now. Okay. Well, you do now. But the but the, just to make people feel a little better. But in the very beginning, you know, it was, you know, I remember meeting with my partner, John. You know, if you're at lunch in the area. You know? It was almost like the back of a a napkin type idea. Like, he knew I raised money for commercial real estate before PPR. He's like, hey. Why don't you raise money? I'll work the notes. And, we actually had a short sale company, and the sign on the front of the building was the short sale company. And the short sale company went out of business, and then the notes were, like, in the back office in Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
In one room, and and that business kinda took off. And, you know, it started out with our own money at first. And, you know, I was an really an investor in the beginning. It was, hey. It was pretty cool to have cash flow without tenants and things like that, and it's passive somewhat passive. Mhmm. So that part was intriguing and compelling and all. And then the fact that you could buy something at a discount with a high yield with collateral was kind of appealing. Right? So Sure. You know, that's kinda what drew us in. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. But so you kinda stumbled into it, and then it sounds like probably the market conditions helped. Speaker 2
Yeah. And and then, you know, another thing that was adverse in the beginning, we we started in an upmarket. And it was very scary because the market really crashed, and all the equity fell out of your portfolio. So all of a sudden, you know, I forget how many million assets we had at the time. Mhmm. But all of a sudden, the equity went away. So you're like, oh my gosh. If you, yeah, if you had a bank mentality, you'd be like, we're we're done. We're toast. Yeah. And what we found was that's not what happened because equity didn't indicate outcome, and we weren't we weren't in a fire sale situation. So we're working through the assets. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
And what we learned was as we bought new assets at better pricing you know, it it was funny. With the equity assets at the time, we were getting out of, I don't know, let's say it was nine out of ten. When we were buying assets with, less equity or negative equity, we were getting out of call it seven out of ten. Right? But we were paying a third for the assets Mhmm. Of what we were paying. Right? So Right. That data, that actually thing that you know, when the sky was falling or we thought the sky was falling was a blessing in disguise because we grabbed data that enabled us to go out and buy what no one else wanted to buy. Right? It was kinda like a, you know, it reminded me when we would buy bankruptcy assets. The bank looks at them all as they're all bad, and they put them in a bucket. We know statistically a third of them are good, and it's just which third. You know? It was a very statistical business when we started. We were in junior leagues when we started. But Mhmm. You know, it was kinda interesting how that evolved, but that traumatic event of the market crashing, the equity falling. Oh my gosh. The world's coming to an end. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
You guys the portfolio is worthless. Yeah. It's worthless if you're forced to sell it, but we weren't. Speaker 0
And in fact, Speaker 2
you There's a lesson in that. Like, everybody tends to go to the worst case scenario all the time, but that's not always what dictates outcome. Right? So Sure. Well, and I know being You're you're seeing that in this market with mark to market on assets. You know, the mark to market valuations in the in the tank doesn't really mean anything unless you're selling it today Yeah. At a fire sale price. Right? Speaker 0
Yeah. People say that with the stock market. Oh, I've lost all this money. It's like, well, no. You actually haven't. It's just that the number on the piece of paper Right. Says you have. So but, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I've Speaker 2
I'm not saying you wanna be in that situation. Right. But But Speaker 0
you're absolutely right. I mean, I'm in the the NPL space, you know, as well. And if you can buy at a much better price point, you have a lot more options and, you can even you know, it just gives you a lot more control and a lot more room for profit and a little bit more room for error, if you will. But Speaker 2
Well, the pricing can adjust, and you can adjust your tactics too. Right? Like, in a, you know, in an up market where equity's up, you know, Dean Lou could be popular. In a down market when there's no equity, Dean Lou is a bad idea. I mean, so it's Speaker 0
Absolutely. Speaker 2
If you don't if you don't adjust, then Yeah. You know, it's almost like I don't wanna say shame on you, but it's kinda like Yeah. You need to adjust. You know? Speaker 0
So when you looking back, I mean, did you as far as your business approach, your approach to all these businesses, at what point did you say, okay. I want the you know, these are all gonna be kinda spokes on a wheel. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but did you when you were starting out as an agent, I'm assuming you didn't know you'd have all these different types of related businesses, or have started them at some point. So was there a point where you said, okay. Kind of residential and even commercial real estate is is my focus, and I'm gonna start a title business and all or did it kinda just happen as you went along? Speaker 2
Well, at first, it was like, I think I saw Robert Allen speaking. He was Okay. Digital book, mobile exchange income or something at the time. Yep. I was like, yeah. I can do that. I'm gonna have but what you quickly realized, it's not focused then. You know? And you're, you know, now you're doing a bunch of things. How well are you doing then? And you can only do them as good as you can handle it or something, and then the wheels start to fall off. So it I don't know that I would do that again. I'm probably better off. And you see that today with a lot of real estate teams. You'll see the teams of real estate people who probably maybe have done better than me even because they might get someone that's an expert in listing versus an expert in selling or Mhmm. An expert in property management. Sometimes I think it pays to drill down and really get something honed, whatever that expertise is. I'm not saying I'm not prescripted or anything. I'm I'm more like Mhmm. I don't know. I I think you might be better off doing what you do best and then bring in everyone else. I mean, it's kinda what I've done in this situation with us bringing in a new CEO. It's someone that came from a much larger, you know, one point three trillion under management Yeah. Over the last twenty nine years who really scaled the company from around a hundred and fifty ish employees to, like, four thousand. You know? Wow. Not saying we want that many people, but you get the idea. Am I the best person to wear all these hats and continue? You know, I've kinda taken it this far. Mhmm. But in some ways, we're like a fifteen year fifteen year old start up when you come into this scale. Like, if you really wanna scale this thing, maybe it's better if I get out of the way and just do what I do best, which is usually more on the capital side Mhmm. Than it is trying to be all these other things. Sure. Yeah. And I do Speaker 0
it sounds like over the last few years, even before the very recent changes, sounds like you PPR had already shifted toward focusing more on, raising capital as opposed to managing assets. Is that true? Speaker 2
Very safe assessment. I mean, for many years, we were asset managers. We still are in some cases in some areas, but the percentage is shrinking dramatically, and a lot is outsourced. But the good news is it's different when you're outsourcing it and you've done it versus I outsource it out. You know, I outsource it and I have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah. Like, a lot of people don't know like, even in multifamily, a lot of people don't know that I raised capital previously for commercial real estate, and they also don't know that I was a contractor in commercial real estate. Right. Right. And I used to work in multifamily, four to six hundred unit people were my customers. I used to do the turnovers. So it's a little different when you go to look at assets and feasibility of projects and value add and things like that. New development. I I was a guy that read blueprints and did estimates. And it Yeah. It's it all that stuff that I didn't realize would come in handy later. Kind of ironic how that works out sometimes that Yeah. Even my job in fast food you know, I was a fast food manager, you know, when I was eighteen. You don't realize you might go you know, if I said that to my grandson who's seventeen, he'd be like, oh, I don't wanna work there. But he doesn't realize you still learn systems, processes, checklists, all these things. You know, how to open the store, how to close the books, how to do inventory, how to do this even though you're at a fast food place. Right? So Right. There's a lot of lessons that you're picking up at these various jobs, you know, whether you're a self employed contractor or whatever that is, that come along the way that, become valuable later even though they may not appear to be related. You know? Speaker 0
Yeah. There's still transferable skills and Speaker 2
Transferable. Speaker 0
Absolutely. No. That's great. So, yeah, that's it's, probably pretty tough for these operators to and and syndicators and different people partnership partners you're working with, for them to pull the wool over your eyes at this point since you've got got a lot of experience in a lot of different areas. So, that I mean, Speaker 2
it's still a team sport in fairness. I'm not trying to act like a know it all or anything. It's, you know, there's areas that, you know, maybe I'm not the greatest underwriter or whatever. There's probably people, you know, better at me or or various parts of the business. Right? I'm not an engineer. Right? I'm not gonna pretend to be one. Right? So Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
There's people on peep you know, on teams that are very helpful. Could be on the legal side. Could be, you know so the thing about commercial is it's definitely a team sport. There's plenty of room for multiple players on the team. You know? Speaker 0
Mhmm. That makes sense. No. I mean, I you know, we own some, rentals, and I always recommend people investors manage their own properties first if if it's every situation is different. Yeah. Of course. But if my property manager is really dropping the ball, I I'm gonna know it. Speaker 2
And you gotta jump in anyway. Right? So it's Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
So Speaker 0
but, I'm gonna fire off a few questions here, and then we'll, we'll wrap it up. Speaker 2
Oh, boy. Speaker 0
So what's one thing that people misunderstand about you, Dave? Speaker 2
Misunderstand about me. That's a good one. Jeez. I've never been asked that one. Speaker 0
Will they Speaker 2
misunderstand about me? Oh, maybe, sometimes I'm being sarcastic maybe. Okay. They don't know it. Speaker 0
They don't pick up yeah. I get that one too because I I, you know, it I can be a little dry with my delivery, so it's like, hey. I'm gonna be sarcastic. Speaker 2
Or see? Yeah. Speaker 0
That was a joke. Yeah. I can Speaker 2
They don't get my bad jokes on. Speaker 0
Yeah. So that's that's good. What's one of your biggest regrets, failures? I know you don't wanna use that term necessarily, but, you know, something that you'd like a do over with. Speaker 2
It would probably utilizing that leverage ideas sooner and younger than I did. Mhmm. You know, I was and then and then trying to be good at a lot of things. You know? Sure. I'm never gonna be that good at playing the guitar or speaking French or probably even golf. You know? Like like so why do I put too much energy or effort in some of these places or something? You know, when I could do something else. Speaker 0
Or Sure. Speaker 2
You get the idea. Yeah. Or do I just focus on what I'm really good at and just go knock it out of the park? You know? There's something to be said for some of that. No. I don't mean don't ever try to improve yourself. I don't mean that. But Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
I think there's a there's some truth to that. You know? Speaker 0
Yeah. And that goes hand in hand with the the leverage because the more Yeah. We waste Speaker 2
a lot of time, I think, trying to do mediocre crap. Right? Speaker 0
Yeah. Makes sense. If you could have coffee or drink with any historical figure, who would you choose? They could still be still be alive today if if you choose. Speaker 2
That's a good one. I don't know. Jesus, maybe? Speaker 0
That's a good one. Speaker 2
I like it. Yeah. I don't know if you drank coffee, but, maybe wine. Maybe wine. Yeah. I mean I mean, there's so many historical people. That's a that's a good question. Well Yeah. There's so many. Speaker 0
Yeah. I mean, it's hard to beat the the Jesus answer. If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, not saying you don't already have ten million dollars, but if you were somebody wrote ten a ten million dollar check just to Speaker 2
do ten. Speaker 0
An extra ten, what would you do with it? Speaker 2
Yeah. It's funny you say that, because I'm at a point in my life where it's like, you know, I it's funny. One of the books I just read was the second mountain and, you know, it's Speaker 0
Oh, I'm reading. I'm reading. I'm literally reading that. Good book. Right? It's great. Speaker 2
And, yeah, I read that this year. I read yeah. I read quite a bit. But, a lot of it's been around, you know, what's your next? What's you know, I don't like the word retirement, but it it's really, you know, what do you wanna do next? What what's more impactful maybe? How can I do bigger things? And, if you gave me ten million dollars, it would not materially impact my life right now. So and I don't mean that in a bad way or it's not in a Speaker 0
bad way. Going to, but but I'm not going to now. So I'm kidding. Speaker 2
I was gonna give you ten million. So I would probably be looking at, you know, what could I what could I do pretty good with this that would be interesting, as opposed to some of the other folks? I mean, I'm sure everybody sees a lot of nonsense on different media channels of jumping in front of, you know, private this and jets and this and that yachts and all. That's just not me. Sure. I know some people that's their thing. That's great. But I just because I always feel like maybe it's because of where I came from that I just feel like, no. I can help a lot of people with some of that. You know? So it's just, it's more rewarding for me to give give than to get in a lot of cases. Speaker 0
I love it. Yeah. Real real quick real quick anecdote on on the second mountain book. Somebody was messaging me a few few weeks ago, and she said, I I because she always asks for book recommendations at the end of the year. And we put out a list of from our all of our podcast guests, we said these are the book recommendations. And so she's messaging me, and she says, this book is amazing. I've gotta give you so much credit. It was you who recommended this. And I said, confession, I haven't read that one. That was actually it was Mark Peddell's book. Speaker 2
It's hard to read them all, isn't it? Yeah. Speaker 0
So yeah. So now I'm reading it because I feel obligated, but it's really good. Speaker 2
Yeah. It's good. Now I know you have Speaker 0
a book you've already written. What's the name of that book, Dave? Speaker 2
Real Estate Note Investing. Okay. Got Speaker 0
it. Yeah. Speaker 2
If if you had Speaker 0
to write another book this year, what would that be about? Speaker 2
You know, it's interesting. Obviously, I raise a lot of capital, so that that could be an interesting book. A lot of people want you to write a book on how to work with notes, which is a you know, that's more of a ops thing or more of a and I'm not really the ops person either, but, yeah, you could do that. And what other books could you give? That that's a good question. Probably scaling a business or something. You know? That's something. Speaker 0
I like it. Speaker 2
Or right now, I'm, like, big into the board and the formation of really elevating the company and professionalizing business and, you know, doing a gap analysis on, like, what board of advisers or board of directors, in my case, can really elevate the company and really take us to another level. And I think, that, you know, that's something I look back on that I should have done sooner, especially with even if I couldn't afford board of directors, board of advisers sooner. Like, what was I thinking waiting? You know? It's crazy that we wait. You know? Speaker 0
So for somebody who's got a company that's a lot smaller than yours Yeah. How would they is it EOS, or what would you recommend as far as having Speaker 2
a I mean, it's a good place to start. I mean, many of those, types of outfits where, you know, there's a, you know, a dozen CEOs or whatever, they can be your board of directors till you can actually get one. But I just think they just don't stop their day to think about, you know, the advisers they could bring in. And even if you can't, you know, you can always, do a combination of, you know, modest compensation versus, you know, sliver of equity or something. Really, they're a board of advisors till there's equity involved. If there's equity regardless of what you call them. Mhmm. Well, once there's equity involved, then they're typically a board of directors. And then they, you know, they're really they have resources and network that you just don't have in areas that you don't have, and you can really, you know, catapult your business with some real strategic advice with someone that has a vested interest in helping you to do that. So it's like anything. Yeah. I I strongly recommend that to folks that they probably I mean, I was guilty of it. I waited and dilly dallyed and, you know, didn't do it and look back and go, what were you thinking? You know? Like Well, Speaker 0
it's back to that. It's the leverage piece that you were already talking about. Speaker 2
Or we just yeah. I don't know what it is. We just don't realize that how much that can benefit us. You know? Because it really only takes a couple relationships or a couple of, resources that could dramatically uptick the business. You know? A lot I see a lot of businesses, they get to a a certain stage and then they get stuck. You know? And it's like something's gonna get them unstuck. You know? And a lot of times, it is these types of advisers. You know? Speaker 0
Well, it does take discipline, mental discipline to stop because you there's always a fire to put out like you alluded to earlier. Speaker 2
It's so Speaker 0
it's just stop and create that space to work on the business. It's easier said than done. But, what's one, I guess, one thing about your looking back at your career, one thing that, that you didn't expect, kind of a big surprise in your industry, if you will. Speaker 2
Well, we well, Dodd Frank was a big. Speaker 0
That was a big one. Speaker 2
You know, when we first started in the distressed debt space, it was a little bit of the wild west, so you had a lot of freedom. Sure. And then that regulatory environment really got pretty stifling. What I didn't expect that's a good question. Well, we also pivoted. Right? So, I didn't expect COVID. That was something I didn't expect. Speaker 0
I missed it. Speaker 2
Yeah. So so things like those types of small little black swan events like that. Right. And, you know but, you know, the good news is that, you know, if you have your act together and, you know, you can get through certain things, you know, it's just a testament to the team or the company, that kind of thing. Absolutely. Yeah. The one thing I did learn there is that if we weren't as much as the issue as the government, they they didn't handle the pivot very well. Oh, right. You can see that with, well, let's just take courthouse recording. Right? I mean, half the counties aren't even online. Right? So that's ridiculous. Besides that being a disgrace, that's a structural problem. It's probably still in effect, like, where they're still Speaker 0
Yeah. I think Speaker 2
on you know, in Pennsylvania, there's something like sixty seven counties or something. There's, like, like, twelve online. You know? It's like It's crazy. Really? Like, do you realize the Internet's here? You know? Speaker 0
Well, that and the whole execution of, like, the PPP one program, but that's that's the whole Speaker 2
That's a whole another story. Right? But but yeah. But what my point was, it wasn't so much that we couldn't get through the Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
It's just you didn't have any support from the systems that you had to rely on just by the nature of the business. So it was almost like their lack of readiness almost put additional parties. I'm sure they did. I'm sure they put other companies out of business. Speaker 0
Sure. Just a few more quick questions here. Yeah. Sure. How has your how has financial abundance made your life better? Speaker 2
Probably peace of mind. You know, I never really worry about money. And I don't know if it's a case of because I hadn't come from a lot. You know? Like, it's, so I never really worry about it, and I always, you know, obviously, I believe in a higher higher power and things like that. But I, I do have that kind of mentality where, you know, I'll just figure it out. I know that things will be okay, you know, kinda thing. So I I don't, you know, it's like Tony Robbins probably said it best. We, we don't lack resources. We lack resourcefulness. Mhmm. I love it. I like that I like that line. Like, you know, it's like the acres of diamonds. They're all right in front of us. You know? Mhmm. And I I believe that with anything as simple as nature, like, I like to read, you know, like, on a beach on a beach or in the mountains on a deck or Mhmm. You know, like, I like to be near nature. I feel close to God or the universe, whatever that is for folks. And, you know, one of the things is there's no bad nature or or what you know, normally, unless it's a tornado or something. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
I mean Yeah. There's beautiful places. You know, a lot of times you'll see people say, well, this place is more beautiful than this place. Like, yeah. Maybe today it is. But, you know, there's there's plenty of beauty in the world. There's plenty of, you know, we don't necessarily have to go ten thousand miles to find something beautiful. It might be right in front of our backyard or something. You know? So it's a that's my view on that. I mean, it's weird. But Yeah. It's not weird. It's crazy. All around us. Right? So Speaker 0
Absolutely. Just two more questions here. How Yep. How do you like to serve others? Speaker 2
Yeah. That's a good question. For a long time, my my oldest son was in recovery, and me and him had owned a, you know, a drug and alcohol recovery center for eleven years. And and nowadays, he still owns one, but it's mainly because I was going off to do other things and things like that. So that was very rewarding. Mhmm. And then we do a lot of charitable stuff. Mostly on the homelessness side, I've done done a lot with Project HOME, which is in Philadelphia. So that's been, you know, housing related maybe just because of the nature of all the businesses I had were housing related. And, you know, I always like you know, I always, I I really believe that the homeless problem we have is not really being addressed very well. Mhmm. Yeah. And I, you know, I look in other countries, you know, that don't really have it the way we do. Like, whether I'm in the Netherlands or somewhere else, I'm like, you know, why are we so messed up here? Mhmm. So I I do look to that. And, there's a lot of reasons, obviously. But the I just think there can be more work done and, you know, there's some smart people that could put their heads together and and help try to solve some of it anyway. Speaker 0
Sure. It's those are some very important causes, and I'd like to highlight that since I I do believe entrepreneurship is a force for good. And, you know, we can you've shown you can you can create wealth in your own in your own life and and and, make a very positive impact for for others. So that's really good. Last question. Where, where can our listeners find you online? Sounds like if they can't call you Speaker 2
Can't call me. No. I don't mean it that way. That sounds pretty good. No. You can reach me at, PPR, capital management dot com, but the management is n g m t dot com. Or you can reach me on BiggerPockets. We have a we also have a distressed mortgages group on LinkedIn. People ask questions periodically, especially on bigger pockets. We answer a lot of stuff for basically anything, and we we try to answer them, you know, almost daily. We answer stuff. So, yeah, feel free to reach out. Always there to help other investors. I I do believe that. And I I do like what you said earlier. If you can think of ways to be more impactful in your investing, by all means. Right? It's easy to it's pretty easy if you think about it to go out and, you know, we have a lot of things. We're we're fortunate. We're in a great place, a great country, things like that. We have a lot of resources that a lot of other folks in other places don't have. And it's just to be mindful that, you know, we can you know, we don't always have to do this, take, take, take mentality. We can, there's plenty that we can, do to give back and and have an impact. I really encourage people to think about doing more impactful investing than just investing. Yeah. Speaker 0
I love it. And it's really gets to the abundance mindset, and abundance approach that you clearly have and that, you know, that we're trying to highlight on the show. So, this has been fantastic, Dave. I really appreciate your time. So So thanks thanks a lot for joining us. Speaker 2
No. My pleasure. Thank you, Jing. Take care Speaker 0
now. Absolutely. Yeah. And to our to our listener out there, thank you for spending your most valuable resources with us, and that is your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us on from adversity to abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire. Speaker 3
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