Chapter VII: "It's Never Too Late" with Mark Owens
Episode Details
Transcript
Mark Owens is one of the entrepreneurs featured in Jamie Bateman’s Book - From Adversity to Abundance: Inspiring stories of Mental, Physical, and Financial Transformation. This is a republished episode (originally released on April 9, 2022) Episode 1: From Homelessness to Prison to Financial Freedom through Real Estate with Mark Owens
You can buy Jamie’s book here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CGTWJY1D?ref_=pe_3052080_397514860
Mark Owens, a seasoned real estate investor, brings a wealth of experience and a compelling personal journey to the podcast. His transition from adversity to success, coupled with his profound insights into mindset change, addiction recovery, and real estate investment strategies, offers a unique perspective for our audience. With nearly two decades in the real estate industry, Mark's story of resilience and growth, along with the impact of mentorship and self-reflection, provides valuable lessons for those seeking transformation and financial abundance. Mark's down-to-earth approach and candid sharing make him a relatable and credible source for individuals navigating personal and financial challenges.
“I'm going to take control of my life. I'm taking over. I'm going to run this. Not the drugs, me.” - Mark Owens
“It's never too late to call somebody up and apologize or to thank them for something. If somebody did something meaningful in your life, even if it was a boss at Burger King 20 years ago and they said something that made a positive impact in your life. It's never too late to find those people and let them know you'll make their day.” - Mark Owens
Book and Resources
Connect with Mark Owens
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/speaker-mark-owens/
Haven Financial Services:
Learn more: https://www.myfinancialhaven.com/jamiebateman/
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Speaker 0
Alright. Here's the deal. You work hard for your money. Isn't it about time you put your money to work for you? If you are an accredited investor, check out labrador lending dot com. Our integrity income fund provides monthly cash flow from an investment backed by hard physical real estate. Our income fund, which is uncorrelated to publicly traded stocks and bonds, invests in first lien mortgage notes diversified by geography, property value, and borrower type. So you're not investing in one project. You're investing in a diversified portfolio of first lien mortgage notes. Our Integrity Income Fund aims to pay its investors monthly distributions at a preferred rate of return of eight percent annually. Possibly the best part though, the fund showcases a short twelve month commitment, so you can invest your capital today and have access to that capital in one year. Check it out today, labrador lending dot com. This episode is truly a special one. It's a re republishing of episode number one of the from adversity to abundance podcast, and it's with Mark Owens. Mark Mark's story truly was the impetus behind my starting of this podcast. I had interviewed him previously on a different podcast, and his story just blew me away. It's incredible. He has overcome so much, and he actually wrote, end up writing the forward to my book, which is called From Adversity to Abundance, inspiring stories of mental, physical, and financial transformation that you can purchase on Amazon. Mark grew up in Baltimore in poverty, didn't have a great, upbringing as far as, you know, family and stability, got into drugs, got into theft and robbery and bank robberies, and went to prison, was homeless, and turned his life around. Just an amazing just a story of overcoming adversity. He turned to real estate investing, got into, multifamily and residential real estate investing in Baltimore. And I mean, he is an incredible storyteller, and just an incredible inspiration to those who may maybe have, had gotten the raw end of a deal, but also have created a lot of their own adversity. And, you know, it this one is just just amazing. I I can't say enough about this episode. Mark is such an inspiration and retired himself and, his wife. They travel around. She, is a traveling nurse still, I believe, but they are absolutely living it up now, traveling, doing whatever they want, working on their own schedule. And it's just amazing what he's overcome. You're not gonna wanna miss this episode. We do talk some about real estate investing and and more the the practical side of running a real estate investing business, but it's truly more about inspiration and overcoming incredible hardship. There's something for everyone in this episode. Speaker 1
Welcome to From Adversity to Abundance, the go to podcast for real estate entrepreneurs seeking not just to thrive, but to conquer with resilience and mental sharpness. Each week, join us as we dive into the compelling world of real estate through the lens of mental fitness, where challenges transform into opportunities. Get ready to transform your mindset and expand your understanding of what it takes to succeed in real estate. Let's explore these stories of triumph and resilience together. Speaker 0
Welcome everybody to our first episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman. I'm really excited about launching this podcast, and I'm really excited about our our guest today as well. So our guest is is Mark Mark Owens. Excuse me. Mark, how are you doing today? Speaker 2
Awesome, Jamie. Thank you. Speaker 0
Yeah. Mark, we had we had Mark on the the good deeds show, I think it was late December, about about three months ago. And I'm not kidding when I say, Mark, your episode really inspired me, enough enough so that I am actually launching this podcast, I would say largely because of that episode and episodes similar to it. You know, we didn't dive into real estate too much, you know, but it was more of a mindset and, you know, overcoming adversity type episode. And it really did inspire me to kinda think bigger and and, launch this podcast. So I'm really excited. But this this episode is not about me. It's about you. So for our listeners, Mark, if you could, it's it's about you and our listeners. But if you could, why don't you tell us your current situation, and then we'll jump back to your backstory. Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah. Just the first thing I wanna say is that I really, really am honored and appreciate the fact that you invited me on, and it means a lot to me. It it truly does because that's what I feel like my purpose is at this stage of my life is to inspire other people and show them what's possible and help them to develop a life of their dreams, whatever their dreams are. And so I really appreciate the opportunity to help them, you know, possibly, you know, positively influence people. So Speaker 0
Yeah. I love it. Speaker 2
As far as far as where I'm at today, I am fifty six. About to turn fifty seven years old. Married for twenty, I think, five years. My wife has trouble trouble keeping track too. Speaker 0
So It's not too soon. Good. Speaker 2
And, let me see. I've been a full time real estate investor for close to twenty years. Got a son. He's doing amazing. He's in his early twenties. He's living in, Charlotte, North Carolina as, working in an investment bank. My wife is now a travel nurse, so we're traveling around the country. She does a three month gig at one place and then a three month gig. So, Ross, we're currently in Charleston, South Carolina, which is where I am right now. But the weather's a little nicer. Speaker 0
We I got a a a yeah. You're from Baltimore. I'm from the Baltimore area as well. I just got a, notification on my phone about the snow coming in today, and it's, March thirtieth. So imagine the weather's a little nicer down there. Speaker 2
I think it's gonna be, like, seventy six today. Speaker 0
Nice. Alright. It's awesome. No. It's all good. Speaker 2
Yeah. So, so that's what we're doing now. I was I just wanna back up just to the to the any of the real estate stuff. Like, I started buying rentals, two thousand two. I bought my first one. This time last year, I had a little over a hundred units. And then I started, downsizing. The market was, like, you know, doing really well, and I had a lot of, interest from out of town investors that were cash buyers without paying real estate commissions. So it was literally saved me hundreds of thousands of dollars in real estate commissions just by doing these direct sales to people at what I consider retail prices. Mhmm. Speaker 0
So I Speaker 2
ended up scaling down. I've got about thirty units now. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
Thirty one, somewhere in that range. Speaker 0
Yep. Speaker 2
And, I don't have any debt to you know, any debt except for my Visa, which I use for everything just so I can track my spending. Speaker 0
Your expenses. Sure. Then I Speaker 2
pay that off every month. And, and I spend a lot of my time just, you know, like, trying to find stuff to do. Like, I'm trying to learn photography. I try to learn Spanish for a while, but, like, I just no. I'm just terrible at it. Speaker 0
Not happening. Yeah. Speaker 2
It was just, you know, I just so I'm just, like, spending my time trying to find things to do. I started doing some coaching, but it that's very limited. I'm only taking a few people at a time and and all that because if it starts to feel like a job, then I'm not gonna wanna do it. If I don't wanna do it, I'm not gonna give a hundred percent. And if I don't give a hundred percent, I'm gonna feel like shit because I'm gonna feel like I'm ripping somebody off. So it's like, I don't wanna I'm not trying to have, like, a volume of, like, you know, fifty people a month sign up. It's like, it's just a couple of month. Speaker 0
And So at the height at the height of your, real estate, kind of investing, what what what did that look like? Speaker 2
I self managed my units, which a lot of people, like, you know, they're just, like they just can't believe it, and they're like, how do you do it? But, I mean, I'm telling you, like, I've built up a bunch of systems and processes where I managed it. And at at the height of my unit count is probably, like, a hundred and seven units. Speaker 0
And those are multifamily or just I'm just curious Speaker 2
what's going on. Family and Maltese combination. Got it. Like, I I could say I have one building, but the one building has eighteen apartments. So what so I would say that's eighteen units. Speaker 0
And these were all in Baltimore City? Speaker 2
Everything in Baltimore City. Speaker 0
Got it. Speaker 2
And at the peak, I was I wasn't working any more than two or three hours a day. And the way that I was able to do that was that I just figured out, like, when something happened that I had to do and I didn't like it, I tried to figure out a way to get somebody else to do it. Either automate it or or get some so, like, just as the easiest example is a tenant calls up, and maybe they complain that Stowe didn't work. Well, I could get stuck in this phone call loop where I tell a tenant, okay. Let me call you back. I'm gonna call the appliance repair company, and they say, okay. Tuesday at noon. Alright. Let me call you back. And then I call the tenant back, and she says she can't do Tuesday. She can do Thursday. And you get stuck Speaker 0
in that. Speaker 2
Sure. Yep. Speaker 0
Well, it's Speaker 2
happened, you know, so many times. And I finally I just said, I'm just gonna give the damn tenant the number to the repair company, and she can call. Are you No. I'm out of it. I'm out of it. I'm out of, like, seventeen phone calls just by giving her the number. Speaker 0
I did Speaker 2
the same thing with, you know, with the plumber, the electrician, the furnace guy, the exterminator. You know? It's like, just give the tenant empower the tenant to to call. I'm paying for it. So it's not gonna cost them anything, and then they can find a time that works good for them. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
And I just I just built my whole business around that. And That's great. Speaker 0
I've seen some of your YouTube videos and things, and it just comes across that you your tenants were and I've heard you on other podcasts as well. But, your tenants seems like you had a work a good relationship with your tenants. You guys were on the same team. They weren't it wasn't an adversarial relationship. Is that fair to say? Speaker 2
I would say that that is true the majority of the time. I mean, I try to, work with my tenants as customers, not as adversaries. And a lot of landlords look at their it's like me against the tenant. I'm just like, yeah, these are my customers. I want happy customers. I want my tenant to live in this house for twenty years. I wanted to pay the rent on time. But even if they're late now and then, like, vacancies kill you. Turnovers kill you. I want them to stay there Yeah. You know, forever. I want their grandchildren to grow up in that house. And part of the way that you do that is just treat them with the same respect that you treat your accountant or your attorney. Speaker 0
No. That's Speaker 2
And that's that's what I do. I treat everybody the same. I treat I don't care if it's a section eight mom with four kids from four different fathers or, you know, my, I don't know, my title attorney or my accountant or my bookkeeper. I treat I treat them all with the same amount of respect, and I I think that goes a long way. Speaker 0
That's actually a really good, probably a good segue into your backstory, I think, because I mean, you know, I try to do that as well. Right? And sounds good. And it's and and it's but it's sometimes easier said than done. I mean, I think that your backstory in particular, you've been through you've seen, you know, we'll we'll get into that, but you've seen a lot of different things, and you've kinda lived at different, maybe, levels as far as financial success, and you've experienced a lot of hardship and and been exposed to a lot of, different kind of segments of the population, if you will. And I think may maybe I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but maybe that's helped you appreciate, you know, person for a person, and they all have everybody has value. And, so with that, why don't we dive into your backstory, if you don't mind? And and, because I again, this when we got into this on the good deeds show, it really did blow me away. So, I think our listeners are gonna really benefit from this. So if you could dive into your backstory for us. Speaker 2
Okay. So I was born in nineteen sixty five, Baltimore City, grew up in a blue collar, mostly white neighborhood, working class. There was where I was growing up, like, the dream of, like, ten, eleven, twelve year old boys was to get a job driving a forklift at a factory. Like, that's as far as we can see it. Like, man, if you can if you can get a job driving a forklift at Knoxville or Pepsi, like, you're set. Like, you're set for life. Because then you can go buy your little row house, you know, with, like, two, maybe three bedrooms, have a couple of kids, and, you know, one car. Is it back in the seventies, most families just had one car. Speaker 0
It's all you're doing, really. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2
And you and you could live, you know, a a happy middle class life, and that was our dream. And I had never really felt like, I just thought, like, there's gotta be more than that. Mhmm. There's gotta be more than just driving a forklift. And Sure. But but I was too young to really visualize that. And my family structure, I was an only child. Mother had me when she was seventeen. Quit school, work at a factory. Didn't meet my biological father at all. I was, like, seventeen. And he was a junkie in and out of jail and, you know, just just a bad guy. Had an had another stepfather for a few years, and that didn't work out. Then I got another step father. But him and I never really related because he was like he went to college. He was like like, nobody in my neighborhood went to college. It's like, who is this guy? Guy? You know? Like and so I never really felt like I fit in. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
And, and so what happened was, you know, we had drug education in school, like, in elementary school. And and you're sitting there, and you're looking at the pictures, and you're hearing the stories, and, you know, you're thinking like, oh my god. I would never do that. There's people crazy. Like, my god. Why would you do that? And then I think I was, like, twelve years old, and one of my friends asked me if I wanted to smoke some pot. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
And I'm thinking, like, this is a chance for me to fit in because I never really felt like I fit in. And, so I did. Speaker 0
So I got a quick question. Was that the DARE program? Speaker 2
No. No. There was I don't think there was a DARE program back then. This was, like, literally, like, nineteen seventy five. Speaker 0
Got it. The reason I asked is I I did some studies in criminal justice back in the day. Really didn't end up doing anything with with it. But and I remember one of the things, you know, there you can argue both sides to almost every type of, like, criminal justice policy and education and different different, you know, government policies. There's pros and cons to everything. Well, I remember the DARE program in particular actually stood out as having no positive effect if and and potentially a negative effect because it exposed kids to things they wouldn't have been exposed to. That's a whole separate, Yeah. Story, but that that's interesting. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. In my neighborhood, it was very easy to get exposed. Like I said, I was I I was smoking pot when I was twelve years old. Speaker 0
And so Speaker 2
And so were and so were all my friends. So, so about it, I was twelve years old and smoking weed, smoking cigarettes, and, something happened that, changed my relationship with my parents forever. Mhmm. You know, my mom up until that point had always told me, you know, like, if I ever, like, smoked cigarettes or, like, anything like that, like, just come talk to her about it. Mhmm. And and I trusted her. And she, so I started smoking cigarettes. This was before I started smoking weed. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
And I went and talked to my mom. I said, mom, you know, I wanna talk to you. You know, I smoked a couple of cigarettes, and you told me if I ever did anything like that to come talk to you. Mhmm. And then she started screaming on me, telling me I was stupid, made me chew up a cigarette, and, completely humiliated me. And that changed our relationship up till today where I no longer saw her as a friend or a confidant or somebody I could talk to. I saw her as the enemy Mhmm. Because she stabbed me in the back. She told me to come talk to her, and then I come talk to her, and she humiliates me. And I think that may have also been partially what led me to saying yes when I had the opportunity to smoke weed. Got it. Then, you know, I started you know you know, she found that I was getting high. We ended up moving out of Baltimore City, out to Baltimore County, which was, at the time, a lot different than it is now. It was a lot more innocent, a lot more naive. Mhmm. I was a city kid coming out to the suburbs, and Mhmm. And I felt like that my classmates even though we were the same age, I just felt like they were little kids. You know? Like Mhmm. I mean, on the street I grew up on, there were I think, you know, one of my best friend's father's was shot on the corner. A couple years later, another one of my friends, his girlfriend's mother was stabbed to death up the street from my house. I mean, it said and then I come out to Perry Hall, and it was almost like a leave it to Bieber kinda neighborhood. Like, very, like, you know, just different. Speaker 0
In a sense. Right. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It seemed like it to me. Mhmm. And so I was the bad kid. You know, I started then my drug use started to escalate where, you know, it was, like, went from weed to drinking to, you know, all the pills and, you know, inhalants and, you know, everything I can get my hands on. I'll just kinda speed through this, but, you know, I failed the tenth grade, went to a couple years of summer school, ended up getting kicked out of high school in November of my senior year. And this I was very defiant and resented authority and, you know, didn't wanna hear, like, people telling me what to do. And I I don't know where that came from, but it was it was there. And, you know, the vice principal called me into his office and you know, about my truancy, which was chronic. And he told me the next time I cut a class, he was gonna, you know, suspend me to the board of education with a recommendation for expulsion. And that that was like a challenge to me. So he gave me my pass to get back to class, and I walked out the front door and, of the school. And then the next day, I get back to school, and I get my I get suspended with a, you know, recommendation for expulsion. And I went home. I left that on my kitchen table in my house. I packed up my stuff, and then I moved down to my grandmother's house, which was back down in the city in the neighborhood that I grew up in. And I was a drug addict. You know, I was very good at manipulating people, and and my mother and her mother had had some issues, so I was very good at putting a wedge there and making it look like I'm the good guy. My mother's the bad guy. So my grandmother took me in, but there was zero structure there. And, I just I I had thought that, okay. Look. I'm gonna quit school, and then I'm gonna go get a job. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna go get a job and make some money because this stuff's a waste of my time. I mean, how many times can you learn about the same shit year after year after year? Oh, we're doing another semester on American history. We've had those semesters on American history for the last six years. It's Speaker 0
like Yeah. Speaker 2
You know? Speaker 0
Yeah. And change it. I I remember not. I've gotten more into history now. I'm not super into it, but I can I can relate to that? I was like, well, what does it mean to me? I can't change anything about what what happened. Exactly. Speaker 2
And when you're a kid, you don't understand that. You know? Like, you like, now you can look back and you can see the history and you can see that how it tends to repeat And you try to learn from it, but, you know, it keeps and it we're it's not us individually, but as our society and our politician Yeah. Just keep falling into the same trap. Care about it either. But I I just Speaker 0
Sorry. Go ahead. Speaker 2
I think there was a lot out of it. I got out of school. Couldn't, Speaker 0
you know, Speaker 2
couldn't that's okay. Yeah. Couldn't get a good job or anything like that, and, I just kept doing my drug stuff. And then I was seventeen years old. It was I remember it was February nineteen eighty two, and I remember this because I actually wrote it on my calendar because I was proud of it. The first time I saw it was a friend of mine. I saw his brother shooting coke in his bedroom. And I asked him, I was like, man, like, how much is that? And he said it was twenty five dollars for a quarter gram. I was like, well, how many shots do you get? And he said said two. And I was like, man, can I get one? And I did. He he said, Manuel, sell me some of his. So I did a shot of Coke, then I did my the other one, like, ten, fifteen minutes later. And that really changed things because up until that point, I had done some bad stuff. I'd stolen cars. I'd broken into some houses. I had broken into schools and stole, like, triple beam scales and stuff like that. But because that's what all the drug dealers like, you could trade those for drugs Mhmm. As well as a transaction. So the, but that changed everything because, you know, what happens when you start to do stuff like that is you think, well, if I ever you know, if things ever start getting bad, I'll just quit. Like, I would never let it get that bad. I mean, that's what everybody that that weighs three hundred pounds says. I'll never let myself get that fat. You know? And then years later, there they are. And, so it's it's very it it's the same trap whether it's you're talking about your weight, which a lot of people in America can relate to, or the drug stuff. You say you'll never let yourself get to that point, and then you do. And it's very gradual, so you don't really notice it because it's just a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. And, so I started shooting coke. And then, like, a month later, I found out another guy that I knew was doing heroin. And I thought, man, I like to try that out. I like Coke. Heroin's probably pretty decent too and, you know, called him up, ended up, you know, that day or the next day trying heroin for the first time. So, you know, by the time I turned eighteen, I was already shooting cocaine heroin. And Speaker 0
Jeez. Speaker 2
Is that, I I'll give the short story, but over the next few years, you know, I was in and out of jails, rehabs, living in the street, you know, in abandoned houses, sleeping under bridges. You know, I got stuck in California. I had to hitchhike from California to Baltimore with no money. Got kicked out of a drug rehab in in Virginia, and and it was like it was winter. And it's like, I violated my probation. I'm gonna get a prison for four years for violating my probation. So my choice is either go back to Baltimore and go to jail or go somewhere else. And my thoughts are, well, if I'm gonna live outside, I'm gonna be homeless. I'm going south, so I hitchhiked to Florida. And wound up in Jacksonville, Florida, which is, like, literally, like, the home of the homeless. I mean, there are so many homeless people there. And I think that's because a lot of people hitch, like, to Florida or drive there or whatever, and that's the first big city that they hit. And there's a lot of resources. If you're, like, living in the street, there's a lot of missions and shelters and, you know, stuff like that. So there's a lot of resources there for people that are, like, down and out. Speaker 0
Right. So it it's there's a a good thing, but it ends up drawing more homelessness. Speaker 2
It's it's good. It was good for me. I don't know if it was good for people that, like, live there. Right. Right. But, but, you know, but when you're hungry, you know, and you're cold and you don't care Yeah. You know, it's just you're just looking out for your Maslov's hierarchy. You know? Like, I need food, shelter, clothes. You know? I worry about the south actualization. Speaker 0
Right. Right. That's Thirty years later, Speaker 2
I'm sitting in my camper in South Carolina talking to Jamie Bateman. Speaker 0
Right. No. That's in that's I mean, I, you know, I was talking to my daughter. My daughter's fourteen. She's almost fifteen. We were talking about drugs and, you know, it's like, I I don't have a ton of experience with that, you know, myself, but, I haven't heard a lot of people who say, oh, I just I'm experimenting. I I guess they say I'm experimenting, but it's like, well, does that ever turn out positively? And I'm not I'm not judging here. I'm just saying It Speaker 2
didn't for me. Speaker 0
If you experiment with heroin, it usually I haven't heard anyone say, oh, I'm really glad I I did that. You know? In in hindsight, the experiment worked out well. It it's like, you know, it it doesn't go well. Right? Speaker 2
I am listen. I agree with you a hundred percent. But here's here's the other part that people don't wanna talk about is that people usually start with weed. Speaker 0
Gotcha. Speaker 2
Yeah. And I'm not saying that weed leads to heroin. Right. Because it's it's it's not weed doesn't do anything. Weed is just a drug. It's a but it what it does is it opens us up to, well, what's the next step? What's the Speaker 0
next step? Speaker 2
What's the Speaker 0
next step? Speaker 2
It's not it's not pot's fault because there were a million decisions that I made as an individual between the first time I smoked weed and the first time I shot Coke. You know? They said, I don't blame pot for this at all. It's just I mean, this Speaker 0
is a Speaker 2
hundred percent my fault. But let me I wanna fast forward through a little bit because Yeah. I wanna get to the part that was, I think, the most important thing. I'm just gonna fast forward to the summer of nineteen eighty nine when my drug use reached, like, the part where I was at the point of no return. I ended up I robbed the bank in Philadelphia outside of Philadelphia, nineteen eighty nine, and I'd I was already out on bail for doing another, like, a theft. I think it was I think they charged me a strong-arm robbery, but it was eventually dropped the theft. I was out on bail for that. I need the money to pay my rent. My girlfriend, like, was, you know, really, you know, pissed off and all that again because I fucked up again. And I just decided, like, man, I'm just gonna go rob a bank. You know? That's it. So I went I'll tell you how I used to steal cars. I I don't like I'll tell you how I did it. People can figure it out. I'm wondering, but what I used to do is and I I've stole a lot of cars. I I would I would find, like, an apartment building in the area wherever I was at, and I would get the address, and then I would call a pizza delivery place. Mhmm. And I would say, hey. You know, back then, they had pay phones. Right? You put a Right. Or, like, a dime. It might have went up to a quarter. I put a dime in it. Called the pizza place and say, hey. I want a large pepperoni pizza. I'm at forty one hundred Buchanan Avenue, apartment g. And then I sit across the street. Forty minutes later, pizza guy pulls up. They always leave the engine running, always, because they're in a hurry. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
I sit across the street, see the guy get out with the pizza, run-in, opens the apartment building door, starts running up up the steps. I go hop in his car and take off. That's how I used to steal cars. And sometimes I get a free Speaker 0
pizza too. I mean, it was awesome. Bonus. Jeez. So then but then, like, it might sound like a dumb question, but what would you do with the car at that point? Speaker 2
I would I would use it to go rob whatever I was gonna rob, whether it's a drug dealer or, you know, usually, I use my own car for drug dealers because they already knew me anyway. But, for the, you know, for the bank and for other places I was robbing, I was just stealing cars. And, I would actually use them for a couple of days because there are so many of them. Like, police aren't actually out, like, looking for them. They find the stolen car when it's in an accident or, you know, something like that, or you get pulled over because you were speeding or ran a red light or something. So that's how they find them. They're not actually out, like, looking for them. Mhmm. At least in a big city like Baltimore. Maybe if you're in a small town or something, they might, but big city like Baltimore, they're not they they got too much other stuff to worry about. So next day, Speaker 0
you you robbed this bank. Speaker 2
Robbed the bank. And it was like the next day, my girlfriend didn't even know about it. You know, I paid the rent and, you know, got a bunch of money hidden in the kitchen, and, you know, nobody knows but me and a and a friend in Baltimore that I told. And, the next morning, it was, like, five o'clock in the morning, six o'clock in the morning. We get a knock on the door, and we're laying in there sleeping. My girlfriend goes up and answers the door, and it was a sheriff or one of the deputies and a bail bondsman. And they were revoking my bail because, apparently, one of my girlfriend's friends called them up and said I was gonna, like, leave the state and abscond from justice. Bless you. So the, so, you know, they you know, I'm just like, look. I was a drug addict. I'm very good at manipulating people. I'm very good at, you know, sizing people up and and making, like, quick decisions on how to respond to the people. Sure. And that's just one of the benefits that you get from living that lifestyle. And Sweet Speaker 0
smarts kind of. Right? And people Yeah. Emotion, I guess, whatever they call that, in in emotional, intellectual intelligence. Speaker 2
Yeah. Mine was on fire. And and so I just thought, like, I'm sitting there and I'm and I'm like, okay. So take me back to jail. I'm like, okay. Well, I'm gonna get the fuck out of this. How am I gonna do it? I'm like, I just need to buy some time to just think about this. So I was very, courteous with the guys. I was very nonconfrontational. I'm like, okay. No problem, man. Can I let me get can I get dressed? You know, just asking permission. Mhmm. And I remember, like, I but I was a cocky I was a cocky little punk. And I remember, like, you know, tying my shoes, and I looked at my girlfriend and I winked at her. And she she didn't know what I was you know, she had no idea, but I'm like, man, I'm getting the fuck out of here. Like, I'm tying like, I'm getting dressed to run. I'm not getting dressed to go to jail. I'm putting on loose fitting clothing. I'm tying my shoes tight. Like, I'm getting the fuck out of here. And and then I didn't know how I was gonna do it, but I knew I was. And we're on the top floor. It's like a row house, and we were on the top floor of the third floor apartment. Mhmm. And in the kitchen, there was a fire escape with steps that went downstairs. And then in the hallway, next between the kitchen and the bedroom, there was a stairwell that went down, you know, through the common area. Mhmm. Speaker 0
Yep. And Speaker 2
I asked the, the sheriff. I said, listen, man. Can I call my grandma and tell her what's going on? Because she's the one that, you know, bailed me out, and I don't wanna worry about me. Do you mind if I just call her for a minute? And he said, no. No problem at all because I was acting very pleasant, you know, very compliant. No bullshit. And, and I got on the phone, and I didn't even call her. I just pretend that I did. And I'm just talking to, like, dead air. I'm just talking and just trying to figure out what I'm gonna do because the bail bonds guy was standing by the door that goes out to the fire escape, and the sheriff was at the other door to the kitchen that led to the hallway that went down the steps. Mhmm. And I just kept talking and kept talking, and the sheriff asked me if I would, he said, man, you gotta hang up. I was like, alright. Just a sec. And they said and he's like, man, you gotta hang up now. And I said, alright, man. Just a sec. And I kept talking. He came around behind me, which he shouldn't have done because then he left left me a path to the hallway. And he reached around and grabbed my hand that was on the phone. Speaker 0
Yep. Speaker 2
I I spun around and picked his ass up and threw him on the kitchen table and, then spun back around down the hallway, down the steps, out to the alley. Then I went down to it's called the Schuylkill River, which is a fairly large river in the Philadelphia area. And I'm figuring, you know, they're gonna be looking for me now. Mhmm. Right. Speaker 0
Okay. Yeah. Speaker 2
I just threw this I just threw this deputy over the kitchen table, so they're probably gonna be looking for Speaker 0
him. Took this to the next Speaker 2
level. Yep. Yeah. And and then it was just, you know, I gotta get the fuck out of here. So the river was too big to cross. Like, I, you know, I I would have drowned if I had tried to cross it, but there was a bridge that went across the river. Sorry about the traffic if you hear that. So there was a bridge that went across the river, but it was a pretty far away across, and I thought I can't leave myself exposed by going over top of the river because it's gonna be easy to spot me. So I went up and climbed up underneath the bridge where they had these girders that go across. And and I and I kinda, like, just held on and just kinda wiggled my way across and got to the other side of the river. There there were it sounds like shit on TV. There was there were true there were railroad tracks, and there was a freight train going down the railroad. And he was he was going pretty fast, probably, like, I'm I'm gonna guess fifteen miles an hour because my top speed for, like, five seconds is fifteen miles an hour, like, something like that. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
And I was running as fast as I could. It it might have been a little slower, maybe twelve miles an hour because it was on gravel. And I was running as fast as I could trying to grab onto this train. Didn't know where it was going. Didn't care. I'm just gonna hop on it. I'll hop off whether it's, you know, the next day, two days later. I could be in Kansas. I don't give a shit getting out of here. But I I was afraid. Like, I was just barely keeping up, and I thought, man, if I fall, like, I might, like, get my arms cut off. Like like, this is like Right. This isn't working. And so I stopped chasing the train, and I and I backtrack. There was another town on the other side of the bridge, and I can't remember what what it was called. I was in Norristown. That's where I started, and I can't remember what the other town was. But I just thought I was walking around. I'm like, man, I I need a ride. You know? And I'm just thinking, like, I'm gonna jack somebody. I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I need to get out of here. And, there was a walking through this little neighborhood, and there was a car that just pulled up in front of this pharmacy. And he double parked in the street, and he left the motor running. And he went in the pharmacy. And I was like, there's my ride. It's like the the law of attraction. Right? So I just attracted a car to Jack. And, I went and hopped in and took off, and I'm heading back to Baltimore. And it's a funny story. There was a kid that was hitchhiking, and, I picked him up. People people used to hitchhike back in the seventies and eighties. I'd I'd hitchhike, like, all over the place through Speaker 0
Yeah. I know. My my father's told me stories about about that. Speaker 2
Yeah. And this kid said, so I can pick them up. We're driving, and and, I told him, man, I've hitchhiked all over the place. And he's like, yeah. And I'm and I said, yeah. But I found a easier way. Like, I don't really hitchhike anymore. He's like, really? What do you do? And I was like, well, I steal cars. And he he said, really? I was like, yeah. I just stole this one. Oh my gosh. And and that would have been, like, that would have been a great pick. Right? Speaker 0
Facey day. Right. Right. Before before memes were a thing. Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Speaker 0
Yes. So I ended Speaker 2
up you know, I dropped them off a little while later. I made my way back to Baltimore. No money. I got a car. I got a bunch of money back at my apartment, but my girlfriend didn't even know about it. And wouldn't you know, the very next day, the feds raided our apartment. Wow. Found the money. Found How Speaker 0
old were you at this point? Speaker 2
I think twenty four. It was nineteen it was nineteen eighty nine. Speaker 0
Got it. Right. Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah. That was around August, something like that at eighty nine. It may maybe the very beginning very beginning of August. And, Speaker 0
So then and and I don't mean to step on your your toes here. If we can fast forward a little bit because I know you hit on the on the good deeds episode, we hit several other stories that were Mhmm. Critical. I remember several things where, like, the the, attorney when you were in jail, and I think Speaker 2
it coming to that. Speaker 0
Cab driver. I'm sorry. But those were critical key points, and I don't wanna I don't wanna miss miss those. Speaker 2
Sure. So so what happened was, at that point, I'd kinda given up, and I just thought, well, I'm just gonna get high till I die. Like, I'm just gonna I'm gonna rob stores every day or whatever. I'll steal different, you know, steal different car every day, and I'll just do this until I either get shot or overdose. Like, there was no like, jail was never an option. It's either I'm gonna get shot or I'm gonna OD. Like, that's it. And I'm just gonna keep this is what I'm choosing to do. And, after it was September I think it was September eighth September seventh of eighty nine, I decided that I was gonna go out to, Alaska. They had this Alaska out Valdez, like, oil spill, and they were hiring anybody to just come out and, like, wipe oil off the docks, rocks, and whatever. I'm just like, man, I'll go hide in Alaska. I'll get a job and, you know, and I thought I'll just, like, I'll just try this, you know, stolen cars out there. And and what I did you can't do this anymore, but you could go up and fill your tank with gas and just take off. Like, now you gotta pay it first back then. You know? And so I would just pull the tank and and take off. And, I mean, that's how I got like, I I stole a car in Georgia, made it to Pennsylvania just doing just that. Speaker 0
Jeez. Speaker 2
So it wasn't a big deal. And, I mean, it's a terrible thing to do, but it was very Right. Simple to do it. Sure. And so, so I just started robbing stores, like, every day. You know, it wasn't a lot of money. Few hundred bucks here, few hundred bucks there. But, you know, if you're a junkie and you're broke, three hundred dollars is a lot of money. Mhmm. And, in September seventh, I decided I'm gonna go out to California and or Alaska. And I talked to a girlfriend, and I just told her what I was gonna do. And her and I had been friends for years, and she was, you know, kinda hardcore like I was. And, I said, well, let's go hang out tonight. So I went and got a motel room out of it's called Pulaski Highway in the Baltimore area Mhmm. And, went out. And that night, you know, I had some money from previous robberies. We went bought some drugs, got a hotel room. We're getting high. And then I thought, let's, you know, let's go rob something else. So we left the hotel motel, went and robbed another store, went and bought some drugs, went our way back to the motel, and I ran a red light in a stolen car. And ended up, to make the long story short, I ended up getting called. You know, I I got boxed in. I I couldn't escape. There was cars in front of me. It was like two o'clock in the morning, September eighth. What the I'd like, I'm thinking, like, the fuck are all these people going? I mean, Jesus Christ. You know? Like, I got no space to navigate. And the car had stolen. It was like a two eighty z or something. It was really fast. It was a fast car. If I get an opening, like, I'm out of here. And and so, you know, they they get us boxed in, and the cops are, like, jumping out with their guns out and the lights on and all this. And the, I asked Barb. I said, hey, Barb. Give me the drugs. She gave them to me, and I'm just thinking, like, look. I'm not going out like this. Like, they're gonna have to shoot my ass. Like, I'm not just getting out and and and, like, turning myself in. So I got out and opened the door, and I put my arms up, and I looked around at the at for an opening, and then I just took off running. And, I mean, I remember, like, gritting my teeth, like, just thinking, like, man, if they fucking shoot me, like, just keep fucking running. No matter what, just keep fucking running because I'm gonna go to jail for the rest of my fucking life. That's what I'm thinking. And it's like, I would rather I would rather bleed out in the street than spend the next fifty years in jail. And I mean, Speaker 0
it seems it sounds crazy to say, but it seems logical. Speaker 2
Yeah. It did. It did to me. I mean, it's a it's a tough choice. It's like, you know, if you wanna die tonight or you wanna spend the rest of your life in prison, I'll die tonight. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
And, you know, a few minutes later, I, you know, ended up getting called. You know, I I kinda got trapped in this, like, little warehouse complex where there was, like, nowhere to go, and I ended up I got called and, went to jail. You know? And I can I admitted to everything? I mean, like, I had a bank bag, not not from a bank, but, like, a drop bag from a store that I'd robbed. And, like, it was obvious that, you know, it was up to no good. And I had the feds had a warrant for my arrest and all this stuff. I think I left that part out. The feds raided my apartment the day after I escaped from the sheriff. And I Mhmm. You know, my girlfriend found out about everything. So that kind of fucked that that kind of fucked that relationship up a little bit. It's just it's Speaker 0
true. Yeah. Through that one for a loop. Yeah. Gotcha. Speaker 2
So I wind up in you know, I I confessed everything, and part of the reason I did it is because I didn't want the girl that I was with to get, like, blamed for anything. So I just like, look, man. She has nothing to do with this. She's just the girl I'm hanging out with. Like, I'll tell you everything I did, but you gotta, like, you gotta cut her loose. Right. Right. And so they agreed, and I admitted to, like, I think it was, like, twenty three or twenty eight robberies in Baltimore City, Baltimore County, Barford County, Carroll County. Wow. And a bunch of cars and all this other stuff. And, you know, so I'm sitting in a county jail and, you know, I've got you know, I'm looking at literally, like, hundreds of years. And I thought, alright. Well, I'm not done. You know? There's I'll get out of here. I'll figure out a way to get out. And I attempted to escape from that jail, and, I mean, like, I missed it by that much. You know? Thank god. But, I'm I managed to break a piece of steel off of one of the bunk beds, which was about four feet long, thick. And in my cell, I pry they have this really heavy duty mesh security screen. I pry that whole frame off and all that. And then there was this heavy duty, like, cast iron, like, mesh behind that attached to the window. And I kept playing at that, and I got a hole in it big enough for, you know, me and a couple of other people. Like, you could fit out of it as long as you didn't weigh, like, three hundred pounds. Mhmm. And then I was using this piece of steel and prying out the plastic. It was plexiglass. Mhmm. Prying that out when they rolled in and called us. And then we ended it's, like, three, four, five minutes we'd have been out of there. And it wouldn't have just been me. I was on a high section. Like, everybody had hundred thousand dollar bailing up. I think my bail was, like, six hundred thousand dollars. Like, everybody yeah. It would have been, like, a hundred guys going through that window. A hundred skinny guys going through the window. Speaker 0
So The Speaker 2
bad guys can still be in jail. But, and they they called us, and I went to you know? So then I ended up getting put on lock up for six months, which means, like, you're locked in a cell by yourself, you know, twenty three hours a day. You get out of an hour to go take a shower and and just walk around the two Speaker 0
imagine. Yeah. Speaker 2
And that that was really good for me that it worked out like that because then the thing that happened that began to change for me was I went and, my attorney came in, and my parents stepped up, got me an attorney. And he came in to see me, and we're sitting in this little conference room. There's, like, a metal table between us, and I'll never forget it. I mean, because he really made me feel stupid. He looked at me, and he said, man, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, can't you even stay out of trouble in jail like you're already locked up? Mhmm. And then he said, don't you realize that if you do what you're supposed to do, you can be home by the time you're thirty years old. You'll be young enough to start a whole new life. And I never I hadn't considered that. Speaker 0
You hadn't thought about it like that before. Speaker 2
You know? Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
Five years, start a whole new life. Like, really? Like, is that an option? And, I mean, I didn't say that to him at the time, but I Right. Over the next course of the next couple days, I really thought about that, and I thought, okay. I'm gonna give this shit a try. And and part of and part of the thing that that really made a difference was my friend Barb, who was with me when I got locked up. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
She had managed to get, like, a few weeks clean, like, a maybe a month clean after we got locked up. She Yeah. Started hanging out with the first guy I ever shot Coke with that went to a drug rehab, and he had, like, you know, two or three months clean. And now she's hanging out with him, and she's getting her stuff together, and nobody had done that. Like, I didn't know anybody who ever got clean. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
And so I'm seeing, like, man, it's possible. Like, you can you can get off the drugs. Yeah. And I'm young enough to start a whole new life. And, that's where my mindset started Speaker 0
the gene. Ex exactly. This is the the critical piece. I mean, so many things I could I could you know, we could talk about from here. I remember in the previous episode on on the other, on good deeds, we talked about several different kind of pivoting moments or and really critical moments in your life, and this was obviously one of them, if not the the biggest. Speaker 2
It it was huge. I mean, but then there's one other thing that happened. There was there was three piece three pieces to it. Yeah. The the next thing that happened is after I got off lockup. Like, I had committed myself. Like, I'm gonna figure this out. Like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Drugs didn't work or, you know, drugs obviously don't work. Rehabs don't work. Jail didn't work because I've been in prison before. Living in the streets doesn't work. Different churches doesn't work. Different girlfriends in different states don't work. I gotta figure something out. I don't know what it is, but I gotta figure something out. Mhmm. And then I found a book Oh, right. Called you can if you think you can. Uh-huh. Speaker 0
And it Speaker 2
was on the tier one table, and I didn't like I didn't know they had soft outbox. Like, I don't know if it's a new industry or what, but I didn't know they had it. Speaker 0
I think it's grown a lot. Yeah. Speaker 2
Yeah. And I looked at it, and I was like, you can if you think you can. I was like, I got plenty of fucking time. Right? I mean, I'm gonna read it. I think I've already read every Stephen King book in the jail. So let me go ahead and read this thing. And halfway through that book, something clicked in my head, and I realized that I can take control of my life and become the person that I wanna become, but I have to believe in myself. And up into that point, I didn't believe in myself because I was always focusing on my failures. And halfway through this book, I I was smoking cigarettes back then. You could smoke in jail back then. And halfway through the book, I'm like, man, fuck this. I'm taking control of my life. I'm taking I'm taking over. I'm gonna run this shit. I'm gonna run. Not the drugs. Me. And I Right. Took my half pack of cigarettes out, and I gave it to this guy, Frank Bertina. I said, Frank, I'm fucking done. I'm Changing my life. And, of course, you know, there you know, it's like, well, I heard that before. You know, he's thinking about Speaker 0
Right. Right. Sure. Yeah. Speaker 2
But, that's that's what happened. Speaker 0
And No. That's that's really I mean, that's yeah. This mindset shifted may not have happened in in one minute. I mean, there were it was over time, but there there were critical Speaker 2
Well, there there was a time. Yeah. Yeah. I gotta tell you. Like, at that in that through that book, there was, like, there was a time. It was in an instant. Like, I knew. Like, it was like that. It wasn't like a dimmer switch, like, slowly going on and off. It might have been a dimmer, like like, preparing or fertilizing my mind for this. But once I read that one thing Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
It convinced me, like, man, I got this. I got it. And you can imagine, like I mean, this is and this isn't just with, like, drug stuff. This is with everything in life. Like, you know this. Like, if you guys are gonna get a boxing ring Yeah. And one guy is thinking in his head like, fuck, man. This guy's gonna kick my ass. I hope he doesn't hit me in the face, man. I hope he doesn't Yeah. My face up. Like, he already lost a fight. You're already done. Speaker 0
Right. Speaker 2
This if the same guy goes in with the attitude, man, I'm gonna kill this guy. I'm gonna tear his face off. His mom ain't gonna know who he is when I'm done. You still might get your ass kicked, but the chances of winning are significantly greater if you believe in yourself. Speaker 0
Yeah. Absolutely. Speaker 2
It's the belief. It's the fuel. Speaker 0
Yeah. That's really what I want this this this podcast, not just this episode, but this whole podcast to be about. It really is about the mental the mindset piece. You know, real estate was your and, you know, we're not gonna go into the weeds on how you did all your real estate stuff, but that was your, you know, kind of asset class or strategy as far as how you were able to build wealth and that kind of thing, but kinda doesn't really matter. And, you know, if you didn't have the mindset piece down, real estate never would have happened. You're you're No. Speaker 2
It's got the mindset's everything. I mean and you don't have to start where I started. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right. Speaker 0
You know? Right. Right. It still applies to people who haven't robbed twenty three or twenty eight Yeah. You know, banks and cars. And I Speaker 2
gotta tell you, man. The, this is one of the things that I did. Anybody anybody that's listening to this, you can do this. It this isn't, like, magic or anything. Like, up until this point, I and this is something that I did myself. Up until this point, when I thought about who am I, I just thought of all my failures and losses and things that I fucked up and people that I lied to and people that I hurt, and that's what I use to define who I am, the kind of Speaker 0
person I am. Speaker 2
Mhmm. And then I decided I'm gonna you know, it sounds corny, but I'm gonna flip the script. Right? I'm gonna look at this thing, and I'm gonna sit down, and I'm gonna write down all the good things that I've ever done that I can think of. It ain't gonna be a long list. It's gonna be a short list. Speaker 0
But that's what you're gonna focus on. Speaker 2
That's what that's what you're on. Speaker 0
Right. Right. Speaker 2
And that's what I did. And the first thing on the list was I quit smoking cigarettes. Speaker 0
That was the first one. Yeah. I mean and this is when I say this, it's gonna it's gonna sound so much less dramatic, you know, but I had a similar shift kind of, you know, just I was going to work every day, had the nine to five job with a long commute, and and that I didn't have a terrible life. I'm not saying that. Right? But I would I just kind of fell into the the trap of kind of Groundhog Day, and it's this is what life is kinda thing. And then I I, you know, realized I started pointing to my strengths and the people in my life that, you know, that could help me and kind of just my focus changed. And so it became more about teamwork and growth and strengths and looking at the positive, and that for me was a critical piece. This was back in, you know, twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen just to start really kinda ratcheting up the real estate and note investing and things like that. But, again, not not as dramatic of a story, but but it was really important because I could have easily just gotten caught in, you know, ho woe is me. This is this is my life and and that kind of thing. So the the mindset piece is critical. Speaker 2
Yeah. I don't yeah. People don't I mean, like, people don't have to apologize. Like, well, you know, it wasn't that bad. Like, it's this isn't a competition. This isn't a waste. Right. You know? It's like, it's I regret all of that stuff. But Sure. If it wasn't for that, I might not be here today. And and I've I've tilted the scales where I think I've done more good than bad now. Yeah. And, but I just there's some things I wanna mention that that to me are Yeah. Are important. To help people to heal is, you know, like, maybe twelve years ago or so, I looked up the cop that arrested me. I looked him up on Facebook, and I found him. Yeah. And I sent him a message and said, hey. Did you used to work in Eastern District Baltimore City Police Department? And he didn't respond. And he's probably like Yeah. Uh-oh. And and then I, you know, sent him another message a couple weeks later, and I said, listen. You arrested me September eighth nineteen eighty nine on Monument Street, the corner of Monument and Crescent, and you saved my life. And I just want you to know that I am truly sorry for all of the shit that I ever did, and that's not how I was raised, and that's not the kind of person I am. And I sincerely regret all of it, and I just wanna thank you because you saved my life, and I appreciate it. And, not too long after that, I got a response from him. And we're friends today. I mean, we've met. We've talked. We you know, I've got his I've talked to him maybe six months ago. He was number on my phone, and we're friends today. And So Speaker 0
so I'm get was that was that difficult? I mean Speaker 2
For me? Yeah. No. It's not a good job. No. No. Because, I'm that for me is, like, it's it's healing for me to express you know, to tell people how I feel, like, my remorse and and regret. Gotcha. But when when the different side, I called the attorney that, like, said that life changing thing to me. Speaker 0
Yeah. He he spoke truth into you is is Yeah. Speaker 2
What he did. Right? Talked to him since nineteen ninety. Well, this is I mean, this is, like, really funny, but I called him. I he's still practicing law. He's gotta be a hundred years old. Right? And and I I found him in the phone book, and I called his office, and he got on the phone. You know, the lady is like, well, is he expecting a call from you? And I was like, well, probably not. What which case is this involving? I was like, well, you know, it's a case from, like, you know, nineteen eighty nine. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
And, she put him on the phone, and I just relayed the story to him. And I just told him how you know, the comments that he made, it changed my life. And this is where I'm at today. Like, you know, I have a a great life. I'm a respected member or contributing member of society. I have an amazing son. Like, you know, it's like I've got good friends, like, good people that that I hang out with, and and I just wanted him to know that that that might not have happened if he hadn't said what he had. Like, I that was, like, just a huge impact. It made a huge impact for me. And I didn't know it at the time, but, he told me that I was actually on speaker, like, after I told him this. Like, his whole audience or his whole office. Staff, like, heard this conversation. And he didn't say it, but it sounded to me like he was becoming emotional Speaker 0
I can imagine. Speaker 2
Just hearing it. Speaker 0
Sure. I mean Speaker 2
And I still do when I talk about it because it it's such a life changing thing that that I'm so grateful for. But, Speaker 0
I mean, I can't yeah. I mean, it's I'm sure he has done well financially and all that, but I would guess a phone call like that would be, you know, more important than any of that stuff. Speaker 2
I'm sure when he sat down with his, you know, significant other for dinner that night Yeah. He said something to the effect of, guess who called me today? Speaker 0
Right. That wasn't yeah. That wasn't your everyday your average, Tuesday. Speaker 2
Yeah. But, you know, my point is and I've done this with other people under other circumstances. Uh-huh. It's never too late to call somebody up and apologize. Mhmm. Or to thank them for something. You know, if somebody did something meaningful in your life, you know, even if it was a boss at Burger King twenty years ago, and they said something that made a positive impact in your life, it's never too late to go find those people and let them know. You'll make their day. You will make their day when you do that. Yeah. And it makes my day it happens to me sometimes where people call me up and, you know, tell me they heard this podcast and it, like, made a difference in their life. Like, man, that's what it's all about. I mean, that's what makes it worth it. Speaker 0
We could we sure could use a lot more of that given the last just the general, you know, dynamic of how things are with social media and people tearing each other down. And, you know, there's too much of that going on. Keyboard warriors, you know, bashing people in the Yeah. The online mob. And so yeah. I mean, that's I love it. That's so Speaker 2
I mean, Speaker 0
that's that would be fantastic if we could get more of a movement like that. People We're probably Speaker 2
are we running over? Speaker 0
We are running over a little bit. You know? We may end up I don't know. Maybe we'll break this into two episodes. But but, yeah, I mean, I've got a few more questions we can we can run through real fast. Anymore. I got Speaker 2
plenty of time. Speaker 0
Yeah. I mean, so just to kind of finish up the so you you just the the very short version of, you know, where'd you go when you after you made that mindset shift, then you got into real estate, and then you had all the and and you ended up quitting your your job. I know there's a ton of detail in there, you know, that we're skipping over. But if you could just give the thirty seconds, synopsis of what happened from the mindset shift to where you are today. Speaker 2
Sure. So that mindset shift happened as either April twentieth or twenty second of nineteen ninety. I stayed in prison for another a little over four years. I got locked up September eighty nine. I got out in June of ninety four. So however many months that is. I think it's, like, four years and nine months. Before I got out, I had I got a two year degree in business, from a local junior from, you know, community college. They actually have the instructors come to the prison. Same book, same exams. Everything's the same. It's just you're in prison. And, I got a construction certificate where you're, like, learning how to frame houses and, you know, just all that stuff. And, I just figured I gotta do the time, but that doesn't mean I have to waste it. Like, I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna make the the best use of this time. So when I get out, I'm I'm as best prepared as I can be to take on, like, a whole new life. Yeah. And, right before I got out, I maybe six months before I got out, this is another this is really important Last Mhmm. Is I I wrote a letter to my high school girlfriend that I had broken up with in high school, and I broke up with her because I knew where I was going. Like, I knew, like, I'm I'm a loser, and she's gonna go to college and have a great life. And, like Mhmm. I can't change. And so I broke up with her, but I'd always regretted breaking up with her. I mean, I was in love with her, and she was just such an amazing woman. And so I wrote her, like, maybe six months before I got out. And just I still remembered her address. I mean, like, this was before email and, you know, all that stuff. And I I wrote her a letter and just told her how things turned out. And she wrote me back and said, you know, I'm doing great. Graduated school, got a great job, got an apartment, got a boyfriend. Don't ever write me again. Speaker 0
Oh, jeez. Speaker 2
And, actually, she had she had broken up with her boyfriend. She didn't tell me that at the time in that letter. And and so I got that response, and I was just grateful that I got a response. You know, it kinda gave me some closure. Like, I was able to say the things I wanted to say. Yeah. And but then I thought to myself, I didn't say everything. Like, I didn't really tell her the real stuff. Mhmm. And since she's not gonna talk to me anymore, and I don't blame her, let me just go ahead and tell her I wanna go deep and just tell her why I did what I did and and how I felt about it. And and I'll probably never talk to her again, but at least I have this off my conscience. Like, this is off my plate. And Yeah. So I wrote her you know, it took a few days to to get the letter just right, and then, dropped it in the mail. A couple weeks later, I got a response. Well, you know, we can talk. We can write. And then a month or two later, she was gonna look to see me. And then a few months later, I got out of jail. And a couple months later, we're living together. And a couple years later, we got married. We're we're still together. Traveling nurse. Yeah. And so so the point of that story is, like, man, if somebody says, like, no, we'll be just gonna, you know, we just gotta find a different way to ask the question. Well, I Speaker 0
think yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's because because You've been you've shown that you're you've been resourceful your entire life. I mean, you always figured out a way to make it happen. Speaker 2
Have the evening. Speaker 0
You know? Whether but but the big thing was you were maybe going down in a kind of negative, dark path before, and you've changed your your direction. Speaker 2
I think that you develop a lot of skills when you head in that direction, like, a lot of life saving skills. Speaker 0
I Speaker 2
mean, just as an example, when I got to Florida, they checked the Jacksonville. And so I got nothing here. I had no money, nowhere to go, no food. And I'm thinking, well, I gotta get a job. Mhmm. But if I get a job, then I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get paid for a couple of weeks, and I can't go to the shelters and the missions to get lunch and stuff like that because I'm at work. Because you have a oh, right. Speaker 0
Right. Yep. Sure. Speaker 2
So I can't go two weeks without eating, and I can't I you know, I can't go to grocery stores every night and steal food, which is another thing I used to do. I would just grab food and go and sneak it in the bathroom and eat it right in the grocery store. And, I mean, that includes, like, raw hot dogs and cheese. Like, it doesn't matter. You know? It's like when you're hungry, it doesn't matter if it's a raw hot dog. And, and so then I got this thought. It's like, okay. I'm not gonna get paid for two weeks, but I need to eat. What if I get a job in a place that sells food? Then I can eat at work. So that's what I did. I got a job working at a hot dog stand. And, Speaker 0
Yep. Speaker 2
Yeah. And it's just like so a lot of times, people, like, my wife does this all the time. She'll she just sees obstacles. Oh, you can't do this. I'm just like, oh, wait a minute. Hold up. You know? I I'll find a way around this. And that's and that's my skill is figuring out I'll either go over it, around it, behind it, under it, blow it up. Like, I'm or I'll go all the long way around. Whatever it is, there's a way. And just I suggest to people, like, never give up, man. I don't care if you're trying to lose weight and you keep falling off the thing. You're trying to quit drinking. You're trying to trying to quit smoking, and you just keep, you know, failing. Like, don't stop, man. Just don't stop. And, don't give up. You're worth so much more. You're just worth you were worth so much more, and people don't realize how much the their failures, how they can turn that into something where they can help so many people with their stories. You know? Because they're they're the only ones that fail. We all fail. I still fail at stuff. But but you can take those failures and turn them into strengths and and make a difference in people's lives. Speaker 0
I mean, that's, I mean, that's from adversity to abundance. That's that's the name of the podcast. Right? And that's Right. Speaker 2
Exactly. Exactly. Speaker 0
Really is. I mean Yeah. You know, that's the whole point of this this show, is, you know, you may not see it at the time when you're going through the struggles, and and I'm not suggesting you necessarily choose to go through struggles. Speaker 2
I wouldn't suggest that you do it on purpose. Speaker 0
But you can use those, you know, you know, in a way that maybe other people can't. I mean, because you've been through that. You've developed these these strengths and these, personal personality traits and things. You you know, you can use that experience to now help others. So as we move toward the the end of the show here, I'm gonna these are gonna be kind of a lightning round quick questions. Okay? Hanging on. What is a book or two that you'd recommend to my audience and why? Speaker 2
I would say assuming that they are not starting where I started, Rich Dad Poor Dad. Speaker 0
Nice. Love it. Speaker 2
Probably number probably number one. Yep. If you're, like, a business oriented entrepreneurial kind of person because that is gonna just expose a lot of the BS that we've been brainwashed with since birth in this country. So that's probably one of the one of the that probably the main one. I could probably name five others. That's the main one. Speaker 0
Got it. How about a movie? I don't know if you watch movies or anything. Any good movies? Speaker 2
Man, you know? Speaker 0
How about this? A movie or a movie or a podcast? You you pick one. Speaker 2
One of my favorite movies, it's a fiction movie. It was called Starman with Jeff Bridges. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
And, it's a tearjerker. So but that's like when people ask me what my favorite movie is, that's always one that pops up. You know? Alright. The worst one was Jaws. Speaker 0
So You're the worst one was jaws? Speaker 2
Yeah, man. Yeah. I never, yeah, Speaker 0
I never got into that one. What's one question you wish I'd asked you, but I haven't I haven't asked? Speaker 2
Oh, man. You know, there's nothing really. I mean, I I wish I could give you, like, a real smart, you know Yeah. Clever answer, but, yeah, I'm I'm open, man. Would Speaker 0
Love it. We've covered so much ground. I really do feel like that you've got so much to unpack with your story. It's incredible. There's no way we could cover it all in in one episode here. But, so and then we've already touched on this somewhat, but how do you like to serve others? How how are you adding value to others these days? Speaker 2
One way is like this, like doing this. I mean, I don't get paid for this. This is my my most valuable asset is time. Sure. It's a limited resource. Yeah. But if I can spend my time doing something like this where I'm I might potentially reach, you know, maybe hundreds or thousands of people that I will never meet, and it can have a positive effect on their lives. Yeah. Like, that's to me, that's a a gift for that I can I'm able to actually do that as a gift for me. It's kinda selfish because it makes me feel good to be able to help other people. Speaker 0
Not the Speaker 2
problem. That's probably the main way is by is by talking. I mean, I I give money to charities and stuff like that, but that's like I think time is more valuable than the money. Speaker 0
And, I agree. Speaker 2
So I would say that that's what I do is I just try to influence people and inspire people to live their best lives. Speaker 0
I love it. Now that goes into the next the final question here. Where can our listeners find you online? Because I know you do have, you know, YouTube channel and some other things going on. What what do you have going on, and where can people reach out to you? Speaker 2
K. So, yeah, I've got a YouTube channel. Best thing to do would be to just email me directly, mark at mark owens dot com, and ask me if you're looking for my YouTube channel. I'll send you a link because I can't even remember the name of it. It. Okay. I've I've got a Facebook group for real estate investors. There's a page in a group. Just if you do a search, it's Mark Owens, r e I, and and just the group is there. I think there's, like, a thousand people in it. The page is just like a place order. So Yeah. Okay. Don't waste your time with that. But emails email is probably the best way. And then if you tell me what you're looking for, whether it's YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, whatever. Yeah. I can I can just answer you directly? Speaker 0
Perfect. Now you're gonna be in Charleston for, oh, foreseeable future? Speaker 2
The I'm gonna be in Charleston for my wife's contract is she starts another one. It's in April, May, and June. I'm staying till the beginning of June, and then I'm heading out to Leadville, Colorado for a month. Nice. To train at elevation because I'm gonna be going to Kings Peak, which is the highest mountain in Utah, Bora, which is the highest mountain in Idaho. I've got a permit to climb Whitney, which is the highest mountain in the lower forty eight states, which is in California, and I'm gonna do Boundary Peak in Nevada. So I'm gonna do the highest point in four different states, in July. So that's that's my plans for July. Speaker 0
That's so cool. Alright. Well, there's so much more we could dive into, but we'll have to save that for if we can get you back on another time. This has been really, really good, Mark. I mean, I just love this. I just love your you know, I hate that you had to go through all that. I mean, obviously, like you said, some of that was maybe your own your own doing. But, Speaker 2
It was all my own doing, man. That's I mean, that's the only way that you can change your life is if you accept a hundred responsibility for what you do. And and I always have. I never blamed anybody else. I made the choices. Speaker 0
I mean, it's you know, I know you say you don't wanna compare, but that's some serious adversity that you that you overcame and that you went through. And, now, I mean, you know, you're it definitely seems, from my perspective, you're living an abundant life. I'm sure you have struggles like everybody else. Right? But you've got free time, and it sounds like you've got financial freedom from your your real estate and and other endeavors. So, I mean, definitely come a long way, and I really feel like this is gonna inspire a lot of people. So I really just wanna thank you for for coming on, Mark, and, and, spending your most valuable resource with us, which is your time. So thanks a lot. Speaker 2
Hey. Thank you, Jamie. Thank you for having me. I'd be happy to come back anytime in the future if you wanna continue the discussion. Speaker 0
Sounds great. And to our listeners out there, please go out and rate and review our show. We'd love it. We we're in a a growth phase, obviously, so we appreciate you listening. Take care, everyone. Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us on From Adversity to Abundance. We hope today's episode has equipped you with valuable insights and practical advice to elevate your real estate journey. For more inspiring stories and resources, visit us at w w w dot adversity to abundance dot com. If this episode has inspired you, please share it with a friend who could also benefit from our conversation. Together, let's turn adversity into abundance. Until next time, keep building your mental fitness and your real estate empire. Speaker 0
Hey, everyone. This is Jamie Bateman. Real quickly, I wanted to share with you something, that's been pivotal in the growth and success of my businesses, and that is my partnership with Haven Financial Services. I've been working with Haven for over a year now. Christine Valdez was on episode seventy of this podcast. So go check that out if you wanna hear her story. It was a fantastic personal story for sure. But Haven has been awesome. They provide me with monthly reports that are super clear and discernible, and it that provides me with clarity and focus so that I can do what I do best, which is running my businesses, not preparing financial reports. Again, if you're in the market for a top notch financial service company, or if you just wanna check one out, go to w w w dot jamie bateman slash haven and check out Haven Financial Services. Again, that's jamie bateman slash haven. Can't recommend them enough. Christine and her team have been fantastic. So I definitely recommend you check out Haven Financial Services at w w w dot jamie bateman forward slash haven. Let's get back to the show. 
