Chapter V: "Seeing the Blue Skies" with Dan Haberkost
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Dan Haberkost is one of the entrepreneurs featured in Jamie Bateman’s Book - From Adversity to Abundance: Inspiring stories of Mental, Physical, and Financial Transformation. This is a republished episode (originally released on July 19, 2022) Episode 17 Dan Haberkost: Shedding a Scarcity Mindset and Finding Success in Land Investing by Age 26
You can buy Jamie’s book here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CGTWJY1D?ref_=pe_3052080_397514860
Dan Haberkost, the founder of Front Range Land, LLC, is a real estate investor specializing in land investments. With a remarkable journey that began at the young age of 16, he has demonstrated an unwavering commitment to hard work and proactive mindset. Overcoming the limitations of a conservative and scarcity-focused upbringing, Dan's story inspires with his transition from adversity to financial abundance. His practical experience and analytical approach make him a valuable resource for real estate investors seeking to shift their mindset and seize proactive investment opportunities. Dan's journey from managing rentals as a teenager to successfully establishing an active business in land investment serves as a testament to his resilience and determination in the real estate industry.
“You won't really learn anything until you start iterating and participating in whatever it is you're trying to do. You've got to take action.” - Dan Haberkost
“Building a business is a lot like going up steps and you can't really see because you're in the clouds and someone's punching you in the face from both sides the whole way up.” - Dan Haberkost
Connect with Dan Haberkost
WEBSITE: https://danhaberkost.com/
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/danhaberkost/
https://www.instagram.com/frontrangelandllc/
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/dan.haberkost.3
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-haberkost-68b03371/
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Speaker 0
Hey, everyone. This is Jamie Bateman. Real quickly, I wanted to share with you something, that's been pivotal in the growth and success of my businesses, and that is my partnership with Haven Financial Services. I've been working with Haven for over a year now. Christine Valdez was on episode seventy of this podcast. So go check that out if you wanna hear her story. It was a fantastic personal story for sure. But Haven has been awesome. They provide me with monthly reports that are super clear and discernible, and it that provides me with clarity and focus so that I can do what I do best, which is running my businesses, not preparing financial reports. Again, if you're in the market for top notch financial service company, or if you just wanna check one out, go to w w w dot jamie bateman slash haven and check out Haven Financial Services. Again, that's jamie bateman slash haven. Can't recommend them enough. Christine and her team have been fantastic. So I definitely recommend you check out Haven Financial Services at w w w dot jamie bateman forward slash haven. Let's get back to the show. On this episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast, I had the chance to speak with Dan Haberkost of Front Range Land. He's a land investor and real estate investor and getting into some different different strategies in real estate. But he's twenty six. And, I mean, it just to think where I was at twenty six and where he is at twenty six is just as far as the our our real estate careers, I mean, he's just light years ahead of me. So super impressive. You know, I I he's very well spoken and just it's a really good interview. I think you're gonna get a lot out of it. It, we talk mostly about from an adversity standpoint, we talk mostly about, overcoming the anxiety and worry of, associated with a scarcity mindset, with regard to money. And there's a lot of discussion about money and financial freedom and where, kind of the mindset, that Dan came from from a family and hometown perspective and versus where he is now. And they're they're just worlds apart. And so, maybe not as personal of an episode from a personal adversity standpoint, but extremely practical. Like I said, he's very well spoken, inspiring story. Just I mean, he's been doing active real estate since he was sixteen. This guy is definitely not afraid of hard work. He's a critical thinker, but an action taker at the same time. Very analytical and motivating and motivated. So I I know you're gonna like this one. Take a listen. Speaker 1
Inspiring stories of real people overcoming incredible odds to live life to the fullest. We are all guaranteed to face hardships. How will we handle the adversity? Join us to be moved by everyday people who have turned poverty into prosperity and weakness into wealth. Be inspired as these relatable heroes get vulnerable and former counterintelligence investigator, Jamie Bateman, puts his interviewing skills to the test. Restore your faith in humanity as you experience true Cinderella stories of average people, turning surreal struggle and deep despair into booming businesses and financial fortune. Take ownership of the life you are destined to live and turn your adversity into abundance. Speaker 0
Welcome everybody to another episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie Bateman, and I'm happy today to be joined by Dan Haberkost. Dan, how are you doing today? Speaker 2
I'm great, Jamie. Thanks for having me. Speaker 0
Absolutely. Dan is in, Colorado Springs, Colorado, and his company is Front Range excuse me, Front Range Land LLC. And, I think we're gonna get into all the different nuances and different, asset classes and strategies that Dan has employed in real estate investing in particular. But since you know more about yourself than I do, Dan, why don't you, take it away? Tell the listener who you are and what you're what you're up to today. Speaker 2
Sure. Sure. So Front Range Land is the active business. And what that involves if you think about what someone refers to when they say a wholesale in company in, you know, the recent years, you're going direct to seller for houses or apartments. Well, I do the same but for land. And so, really, I've built a marketing funnel, a marketing system that brings in dozens of leads for land at thirty to fifty cents on the dollar and specifically infill residential or commercial, but all infill lots. Some of them we build houses on. Some of them I'll just flip for cash. Some of them I'll sell on notes, and, some of them we assign. And I'm doing that in both Colorado and Florida. And that's the active business, and then that feeds the passive investing and acquisition of more rental properties. It goes back to to when I was a teenager, actually. I was managing a portfolio of rentals at sixteen, plus a farm for my boss as he would travel to Aruba. And I did that through high school. And then in college, I, managed a landscaping company working forty five, fifty hours a week while going to school full time. And that that was a lot, but it was clear to me, hey, if I can manage that much work plus full time school, I can certainly start sort some sort of business. Grew up in a lower middle class, a very rural part of Ohio, and, didn't wanna repeat the same sort of story that everyone else in my family had done, working a crappy job, making next to nothing, and just being controlled by money. Because if you don't have any money, then all your decisions are dictated by it. Right? When you take vacation, what you buy, when you travel, when you see your family. And so, anyways, I started reading different books when I was about twenty years old about stock investing, businesses, and, like, everyone else, rich dad, poor dad, was the light bulb moment. Mhmm. Real estate was clearly the answer. And so at twenty one, I was still in college. I bought a duplex, came out to visit my brother in Colorado, knew I didn't wanna stay in Ohio, and saw the mountains and actually and, came out here, bought some more rentals, started the active business. So today I'm twenty six and, still fairly young, but having ran other people's businesses, I feel like I've been doing this a long time. So I have the active business, which feeds the passive. Speaker 0
Got it. Twenty six. But you started in real estate at sixteen or or right? Speaker 2
Yeah. Sixteen is when I was managing those rentals. Yep. Speaker 0
K. Got it. Alright. So yeah. I mean, that's that's ten years. I mean, that's actually is a long time whether you're twenty six or or fifty six. That's pretty cool. You're definitely not afraid of hard work, sounds like. Yeah. And, yeah. Alright. That's that's awesome. So let's dive into your backstory a little bit more. You touched on a little bit of it there. Obviously, like we talked about a little bit before this before we hit record Mhmm. Our show is is focused on overcoming adversity and getting to abundance. And again, our listeners are are very much aware that it's not, snapping your fingers and you have no more problems, and life is perfect. But there's a lot that can be done to address the adversity that you are either given or you create yourself or that you end up having to face in life. So pick it up where you'd like to, whether that's childhood or five years ago. But, let's go back to kind of a, you know, your first kind of major challenge in life, and let's talk about kind of how you navigated that. Speaker 2
Well, in the context of money and investing, I would say that goes back to when I was a teenager and, again, didn't have a lot of money, came from a very conservative background. And just from very early on, I remember worry, fear, anxiety, conflict. And when I think about money, those were the emotions and experiences we had. Right? My my parents didn't have much money. And especially when I was young, I was the third out of four kids. And so when all four of us were in the house, it was especially tight. By the time I was in late high school, things were more stable. But, yeah, I'll never forget. That's actually let's take it back even further. I was five or six years old. We were at the grocery store, and I wanted a Sprite. And my mom goes, well, do you have money? I go, no. Well, then you can't have a Sprite. And that that was that. So I would, there's a lot of thoughts I have here, but when I was fifteen, I started working at that tree farm. He didn't give me the the rentals to manage until little sixteen, but, and I wanted to buy a car. And so that was my way of going and buying a car, and I was pretty frustrated and, you know, fifteen year old me and bitter about that because all my friends just got cars bought for them. All my friends were gonna have college paid for for them, and that wasn't the case for me. And so in hindsight, years later, probably the biggest piece of advice, even if you feel like you are in a disadvantaged situation, again, in hindsight, I I certainly wasn't really in the larger context, but at fifteen, you don't have that perspective. If you feel like you're in any sort of disadvantaged situation, sitting there feeling bad for yourself, even if it's justified, isn't gonna help you. And you've got to not take responsibility necessarily for the cause, but for changing it. You know, it's like that book, that Hal Elrod book. I read that a long time ago, and I don't really remember much about the miracle morning, but I do remember the story of him getting hit by a car and saying, well, no one's gonna fix this for me. It's not my fault. So I guess I have to take responsibility to change that. And that's really, really stuck with me. Speaker 0
That's interesting. I just to cut you off briefly, I I actually just listened to another I've heard him on several podcasts, but I just listened to a podcast yesterday with Hal Elrod. And, is it Hal Elrod or Elrod? I forget. I think Elrod. Elrod. Yeah. Anyway, he, when he was twenty three, he emailed, like, twenty five people in his life and and asked for, you know, very real feedback on how they viewed him. And not to get too off on a tangent, but, you know, he he the whole point was he was taking ownership of how of of the legacy he was leaving and the life he was living, and, that's a a story for another day. But, yeah, he's a he's an inspirational person for sure, and and, you know, his book, The Miracle Morning, is really good. But, that we'll we'll we'll do a follow-up episode on that. Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah. Speaker 0
Yeah. So, okay. Where were we? Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, anyways, so I'm I'm kinda oscillating back and forth between, you know, teenage Dan's perspective and perspective. But that that definitely made me made me bitter, and it wasn't until late college where I decided to grow up and deal with it and say, what can I make the best out of this? And at that time, it was really clear to me that I had the skill set of someone much, much older. So in college, I I was running that landscaping company. I was managing a dozen plus guys that were twice my age, a lot of them. And I was going to school full time. And I said, okay. I can do that. I can definitely build some sort of a business. So I can cry about it, or I can go do something with it. And I chose the latter. Speaker 0
So just just can you give us a little more context? Like, what did your parents do for a living and what, you know, you know, what what part of Ohio were you in? Speaker 2
Yeah. My mom taught piano lessons, and my dad was a pastor at a church. Okay. And this was in They Speaker 0
were rolling in it. It. Speaker 2
Yeah. Yes. So, for anyone that knows Ohio, this was about fifty minutes southwest of Cleveland, right on the border between Litchfield and Medina. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
Cornfields. Speaker 0
Got it. Okay. Yeah. So, no, I think that's awesome that just you recognize that I mean, the fact is money does matter. And I don't know what you know what you were the the how your family taught money skills or anything like that. But They didn't. They didn't. But I know for it sounds like maybe you came from more of a scarcity mindset and and, you know, not the abundance mindset, that Rich Dad Poor Dad opened you up to. Mhmm. But, I mean, here's you know, money is is so important. I mean and and that sounds like you've come to that realization probably earlier than most people did. So, yeah, anything to weigh in there? Speaker 2
Yeah. So first and foremost, yes. Especially my dad. Huge warrior. The sky was always falling. The world was always ending, and the market was always crashing. Everything was going wrong all the time, and that has been extremely difficult to get out of that sort of thinking. I catch myself, and I'll say, wait. No. That's your dad. That's not you. That's ridiculous. So I I still struggle with that to this day, and we can talk about some of the things that have gone wrong in business up to this point. The bit you're gonna get kicks in the teeth. I'll I'll tell you that. And the second point, what you just said is is so true because it's it's not that money. It's money itself is just a concept because bartering is difficult, but it enables all of the things that matter in life. So whether it be you know, I live out here with my brother. I've seen my family. I'll see my parents six or seven times this year. He'll see them once. Why? Because I have money. It doesn't it doesn't really matter. I can trade that for things that matter. I can go travel, whatever I want. So money is just a tool to Right. Trade for the things that actually matter. So when I hear people say, oh, what's more, you know, this and that and this are more important than money. Well, that's somewhat misleading because money is the thing that enables all the things that matter. Speaker 0
Yeah. I love that. I mean and it's like, you know, I equate money to it's it's like the Internet. It's like, is it inherently good or bad? No. But it's extremely powerful. It can be very powerful. And it is. It's just a tool, and it's how you wanna use it. And I think to take the approach of money doesn't matter or or becoming a slave, you know, to to that fear surrounding money that you're talking about is really not not the the right way to go. You know, it's it's easy for me to sit here and judge your parents or my parents, obviously. But, I think too many people take that kind of cop out where it's like, No. I mean, I shouldn't Money isn't something to strive for. And so therefore, I'm just gonna you know, go the easy route and and not, not try to acquire more money. But what it can do is enable things like you just talked about. Enable freedom really is what enable time freedom and and location freedom and, like you were like you were talking about. So, yeah. Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, when someone says money doesn't matter, that's very interesting. My first question would be, well, what does your week look like? When they tell me, oh, they get up, they go to work, I would, you know, respond. Most in most cases, it sounds like money dictates everything you do all day every day. So that's interesting because Yeah. You typically, if you don't have it, then money controls your life. If you do have it, then you control your life. Speaker 0
Sure. Yeah. No. That's really good. So, what other obstacles or kind of themes that were were difficult for you exist existed? In other words, anything not money related, that you grew up with that was kind of challenging from a either human or business, perspective? Speaker 2
I I would say the biggest thing that pertains to this conversation, that I would wanna get into would probably be just that intense fear based scarcity mindset. Right? Just the pen so they never figured out how to make money, so they're just super conservative with spending money and then never got to see their, you you know, their parents, my grandparents, their siblings. I'm talking about my parents. That's probably the biggest one that applies to this conversation, because it's so hard. You know, I in hindsight, I have cut myself so short by having been stingy about marketing dollars. Right? I have hiring people. Just I have made my own life so much harder because of this. So, yeah, that's been a huge one for me, and it still is to this day. I I catch myself thinking very irrationally or worrying about things that I shouldn't worry about at all. You know? So that's probably the biggest one. And for me, self awareness has helped the most. Right? Trying to catch myself and say, hey, that's it's not you. That's just, you know, twenty years of hearing your dad. Right? Sure. That has helped me a lot there. Speaker 0
Okay. So take us from, say, twenty through twenty six. Just kinda bring us up to speed. Sure. How did you how did you get out of that scarcity mindset, you know, or or attempt to anyway and then get to where you are today? What were some some tools or tactics that that got you where you are? Speaker 2
Yeah. Probably the two biggest things are just proceeding, taking action in spite of being afraid and, the people you get around, I'd say, are the two biggest. So I bought that duplex in college and then moved out to Colorado, bought another house hack out here. And it was around that time that I realized, hey. The the whole low and no money down thing sounds really great. It sells a lot of courses and books and podcasts. But at the end of the day, this is a cash intensive venture. You're gonna have things go wrong. If you don't have cash or or someone partnered with you who does, you're gonna get yourself hurt. You're probably not gonna last very long. So I started going to the real estate group that I now host out here. And I met a guy who had been investing in land, building houses, apartments, commercial strip centers, etcetera, for the last forty years. So I would drive an hour south every weekend and go work with him, work for him, and just learn. And that was how land and development came into the picture originally. Again, really consolidating a lot of information here. But through that, I eventually just started doing it myself, and that's where front range land came about, and that has allowed me to buy more properties. So, again, I I just turned twenty six now, and and that's, what the business is at this point. Front Range Land feeding the investing. And I wanna tell a story about that guy I I just mentioned. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. Speaker 2
Okay. Alright. So when I met him, he seemed a little bit, his memory wasn't great, and, oh, I don't know. There's something funky about this guy, but he showed me all these properties he's building. He showed me all his rentals, and he clearly had experience. Turns out he had gotten brain cancer when he was fourteen. So we're talking the seventies. He had an operation. His whole life, he had been disabled. He can barely write his name, Wedgeline. Terrible memory. And he has gone out and built a massive business, gone and done deals all over the country and the world. He showed me an apartment he built in China in spite of that. And at the time when I met him, he'd gotten cancer again. This time in his neck, he could barely speak. He was I watched him go through treatment. I ended up taking him to treatments, go through radiation and chemo. And in the midst of that, I don't think I ever heard him complain a single time. I'll never forget it was at the end of twenty nineteen when he was nearly dead from treatments. And I had a question. He's like, I'll I'll meet you. I go, are you sure? He's like, no. I'll meet you. Anyways, I meet him. He barely walks in. I think we met at McDonald's or something in town. He can barely talk. He can barely walk. And I was like, like, are you sure are you sure you wanna talk? You know, should I take you home? What and he's like, Dan, I've been dealing with this since I was fourteen years old. It's not gonna take me out. I'll get better. And, anyways, so I I have learned a lot from him because here's a guy who has a really legitimate reason to complain. I mean, cancer at fourteen. Oh my gosh. He's fought with it on an office whole life, been disabled his whole life, and I have literally never heard this man complain. Speaker 0
And That's awesome. Speaker 2
He went out regardless and built a business and had a has had a really cool life. Speaker 0
And he's still still doing well? Yep. That's awesome. Speaker 2
Yep. Speaker 0
Yeah. He'll be here. That's, I need to get him on the podcast. Yeah. We we can we can talk later. But, I mean, that's that's the type of story that is perfect for this show, to be honest, because, you you know, that's what I'm hoping for is that people take away from from this show that not that you should never complain or not that you don't not that your problems aren't real. Right? But but here's an example of someone who dealt with real adversity, like, legitimate and is still dealing with it, it sounds like, but made the most of it. Right? And so, to me, that's inspirational. I'm not certainly happy that happened to him, but that's that's a I mean, that's yeah. It makes my my my the things I complain about kinda Speaker 2
evaporate. Yeah. I when I catch myself complaining about anything, I always think about him because, yeah, I've never really looked up to anyone, especially as a kid. He's probably the first person I've ever actually was impressed by or admired by because that's incredible, in Speaker 0
my mind. So and how did you you just met him through the real estate club and then kinda latched on and he kinda became a mentor to you? Is that just Speaker 2
Exactly. Yep. Speaker 0
Okay. Yep. And, also, the other thing I wanna pull out is it sounds like you were adding value to him Mhmm. You know, without specifically asking for something in return. Speaker 2
Yeah. He he actually stood up and said, hey, guys. I need help with such and such in my business. He lived an hour south of Colorado Springs down in Pueblo West. So it was a bit of a drive. And, of course, everyone gathered around him, got his number. Me and one other person actually took him up on it. The other guy quit after, like, a week, and it was just very clear to me after a short time that he knew what I wanted to know. And so I I I just kept going. And, eventually, we just became friends, and, he invested in me and with me. And then I just do it on my own now. Speaker 0
That's awesome. I mean, you took action. You have persistence. You know, just so many things that if you'll do those few things, then you all of a sudden, you're in the top ten percent of performers and, you know, I I that's that's great. Speaker 2
Yep. And to expand on that, so how how when I said the people you're around influenced so much. Right? Getting out of that mindset. And he has contributed to that a lot. Spending time with him, he's really taught me how to think, very differently than how I grew up. Right? If I'll ask him if something is doable so backstory, when I met him, it was shortly after moving here, and I always talked about how my favorite part of Colorado is it's always sunny. We have bright blue skies all the time. And I love that because I grew up in Ohio, and you you don't see the sun six months. I mean, it's horrible. Don't ever go there. But, anyways, so if I would ever ask him if something was doable or can I do he would always say, Dan, it it's blue skies? It's blue skies. You can go do whatever you want. And so he would use that analogy. And so I think about that all the time, and that will stick with me for the rest of my life. Speaker 0
That's fantastic. That's really good. Awesome. Now we'll get into your business at the end as well. But what what does it I know you said you have the passive and and active, and they feed each other essentially, or at least the active feeds the passive. But what does your team look like? What's the structure of your business look like? Speaker 2
Yeah. So for Front Range Land for the active business, I have two acquisitions managers. They both do business in Florida and Colorado. And I just have a network of different realtors, different title agents, a couple different contractors I use. So I've kept it really, really low maintenance. And for anyone you know, most often people, when they think of direct to seller businesses in real estate, they think of wholesaling residential houses, And that is way more time intensive. With land, the due diligence is much easier. You never have to meet anyone in person. So one acquisitions manager can handle a lot of volume because it's very, very simple. You're not dealing with foundations and electrical and plumbing. It's just a flat piece of land. You double check your zoning, your topography, your size and setbacks, and it's about it. It's very, very easy. So with two acquisitions managers, you can get a lot done. Speaker 0
Got it. Yeah. And you're also if you're creating notes, you're not dealing with owner occupied issues like Dodd Frank and CFPB and the issues that I I deal with on in our business. So, yeah, that that's awesome. Alright. Well, I'm going to fly through some questions, and then we'll get back to kind of your where people can reach out to you. What do people misunderstand about you? Speaker 2
Oh, gosh. Misunderstand. Speaker 0
People meet me Speaker 2
in the context of business, and I especially moving to Colorado, the culture is very different. So I grew up in I I would compare the stereotype of the New Jersey and New York sort of, culture to being similar to Cleveland in that area where communication is very quick, very direct. I have had to change that dramatically moving out here because it's farm. I gotta relax, talk slower, and I'm naturally just a driver. So in the context of business, most people think I'm boring and excessively practical. So that's probably the biggest thing. Anyone who knows me in business probably does not think I'm very fun, but come snowboarding or climb a mountain. It's a very, very different side of me. You'll see. You know? Speaker 0
Just it's all blue skies at that point. It is. Yeah. I mean, it's you're twenty six. I this doesn't really fit into the context right now, but it's just super impressive what you've done so far. So, on the flip side of that, what would you say is one of your your bigger failures thus far? Speaker 2
That's a great question. I I would say not living up to potential, having been way too scared, allowing that to affect me and not being nearly far along as I I could or should be, in my opinion. That's probably the biggest thing that comes to mind. Speaker 0
That's good. And I I what you learned from that is is what? Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, remembering that's not me. That's just what I was raised on and very practically getting more granular in the context of business, spending more on marketing, not being afraid to and I'm talking to myself right now and telling myself, go spend more money on marketing. Speaker 0
That's Yeah. Speaker 2
Probably the biggest thing and good people. Good people in marketing. Speaker 0
That's I can I can definitely relate to those? Mhmm. Speaker 2
If Speaker 0
you could have coffee with any historical figure, who would it be? They could be, you know, could be someone with us still today or or Speaker 2
not? Oh, man. Any historical figure? Speaker 0
If you drink coffee, that is. Speaker 2
I do drink coffee. I'm just trying to think who would I wanna talk to. I read a lot of history, but it's more big picture. Speaker 0
Doesn't have to be your favorite person, but just, you know, anybody you'd wanna spend an hour with and and pick their brain. Speaker 2
Oh, man. I wasn't prepared for this question. It would probably oh, gosh. Probably one of the Greek philosophers, someone from a long time. I read one of my favorite ancient history books, the facilities. I forget how you pronounce it. The history of the Peloponnesian War. I love that book. I would go talk to him because, yeah, ancient history is very interesting, and it reminds you how much or how little has changed. Speaker 0
There you go. I like it. If you were given ten million dollars tomorrow, what would you do with it besides marketing and hiring? Speaker 2
Well, I would probably pay off a couple rentals and have that at the base of the portfolio as just completely solid. Like, you know, go buy, like, a Walgreens building, something like that. Right? A very, very low risk thirty year triple net that had the base. I'd put that in a separate entity, and I'd take the rest and go after far more, probably not necessarily risky, but go after a far higher return with that. Leverage that money. Okay. Try and add a couple zeros to that in the next couple years. Nice. While keeping the more, Speaker 0
stable Yes. Speaker 2
You see what I'm saying? Speaker 0
Anchor tenant or whatever. Mhmm. What's your what does your rental portfolio look like today, if you don't mind getting Speaker 2
into it? Yeah. So I have thirteen tenants between six properties. So that's a duplex and then five houses here. Two of those houses are rented by the room. Two of those houses are traditional rentals, and then one of the house houses is the one I live in with the basement separated off as its own unit and then putting putting tenants down there. Just they have their own entrance and everything. Speaker 0
That's I'm just thinking of where I was at twenty six, and we don't need to get into that. Speaker 2
It's it's all it's all relative. You know? Speaker 0
No. It's awesome. I'm I'm super impressed. Not that your goal was to impress me, but, you know, I can still be impressed. Thank you. Speaker 2
If you Speaker 0
had to eat one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be? Speaker 2
Oh, man. And calories still apply, I take it? Yes. Okay. Then, man, probably eggs eggs and toast. I love eggs. My breakfast I eat every day is very yeah. Eggs and toast. Speaker 0
Nice. Alright. What's a a challenge that you're facing right now in your business? Speaker 2
Great question. Yeah. It goes back to what we've been talking about the whole time. I wanna scale, but I'm intimidated. And I'm doing it. I'm sending out mail, but I'm intimidated by by two things. Number one, markets with bigger numbers, really just more zeros. Like, I'm moving into Cape Coral right now. We're working on it, and a lot of those lots sell for two, three, four hundred grand, and that's intimidating. So I'm working on that. And then secondarily, I need to hire someone else and I don't want to, but I need to. So there's that. And then number three is I've not leveled up my investing at all to match the active income, and I need to do that. I've I've got one of my best friends, from when I was kids when we were kids text me all the time. Have you gotten into commercial yet? Have you bought a office or strip center yet? I'm like, damn it. No. So, anyways, my buying houses does not make sense unless we're talking very nice houses. It does not. I need to be investing in larger assets, and I haven't done it yet. So that's number three. Those would be the three things. Speaker 0
Gotcha. Okay. That's that's good. I I don't think single family homes are the worst place to put your money, but but Speaker 2
No. Agreed. Agreed. But, you know, I I just again, who you're around matters a lot knowing and seeing what some of my friends are doing. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
I I look at my house. Why the heck do I do this? Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0
Yeah. Makes sense. If you could do one occupation other than real estate or totally unrelated to what you're doing, what would it be? Physicist. Physicist. Okay. Why? Speaker 2
I love math comes very naturally to me. I like I love science, numbers, and physics or or somewhere in biology. Both the sciences are really, really interesting. Speaker 0
Got it. Yeah. I I liked physics a lot too. That was that was fun. Alright. What's a book or two that you'd recommend besides the one you already mentioned? Speaker 2
Yeah. Or, Speaker 0
actually, you mentioned a couple already. But Speaker 2
Well, everyone talks about Rich Dad Poor Dad, so that doesn't count. That's a cop out. Sapiens is excellent. I've read that. This is the only book I've read three years in a row. And then deep deep simplicity is another one that I really, really like. That's the only book I read and then went to page one and read again. There are concepts in that that are so applicable just across the board. I love that book. And then anything written by Howard Marks, he I like his memos, especially he's in the same world as Warren Buffett, so not necessarily in real estate, but he starts everything he writes with contrary to a lot of people, he says the future is unknowable. He doesn't try and predict the future specifically. Right? You can have an idea as to kinda, you know, okay. Interest rates are going up. That is gonna price people out, but we don't know how extreme of an effect that has in the market. So anything he writes is excellent. His thinking is very rational, calm, and just well written on the market, what's going on, and how to approach it. So, yeah, anything he writes. Speaker 0
It's really good. How about a movie? Any movies you'd recommend? Speaker 2
Oh, I love, The Assassination of Jesse James, There Will Be Blood. All the Wes Anderson movies, I enjoy those. The Irishman, I like long, well done character studies. I hate action movies. I like more long interesting. The Irishman is really good. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. That was good. Do you listen to any any podcasts? Speaker 2
Yeah. I still enjoy BiggerPockets. David Green, specifically, he and I probably think very much alike, so I like listening to him. Speaker 0
Interesting. I I, because I I just it's not out yet as of today, but one of the recent interviews I just did, we were talking about that. She was on the Bigger Pockets podcast, actually. But, I told I I've stopped listening, and I I apparently, I need to give it another another shot. Speaker 2
You know, I'll be listening. They'll ask a super beginner question, but then he will give his perspective and thinking as somebody who is quite a bit ahead of me, and then I always find that to be valuable. I mean, there are some that are just very beginner, but he tends to say things in there that make me come back. Yeah. Speaker 0
And then, Speaker 2
the other one I like, I like Kevin Bupp's commercial podcast, and then I like, oh gosh, the real deals. Elliot Smith, Tucker Merahue up in Pacific Northwest. They're very, practical and talk through their businesses in detail, and that's really useful. Speaker 0
Nice. I think Kevin Buppett, he did have at least two podcasts. Right? I think he's Yeah. Speaker 2
I just know his, general and commercial one that's been around for quite a while. I can't think of that name. Speaker 0
Yeah. Awesome. Alright. Two more questions for you because I know you're a busy guy. How do you like to serve others? Speaker 2
Well, right now, at this point, I turned around. I host this real estate group now, that I got a lot of value from when I moved out here. I'm doing the talk tonight. And from that, there's a lot of people that just reach out to me, and I try and help how I can. So as of now, that that that's it. Speaker 0
That's that's good. What's what's the, talk on tonight? Speaker 2
I'm gonna talk through land, but more specifically, I'm gonna pull the concept out of land that is applicable across the board. So we we could get into that. I would love to hit on that. Speaker 0
Sure. Go for it. Speaker 2
Well, just the concept of an efficient market. Right? So there was the efficient market hypothesis in the world of equities. I think it was in the sixties where the idea was you have millions of rational investors looking at prices at all times. They're updating constantly. So prices reach intrinsic value. Now we know people aren't discount. In the world of real estate, I to buy a stock at a discount. In the world of real estate, I would like in single family and multifamily to stocks in that really difficult to buy at a discount. But wherever you can find inefficient markets, there is huge opportunity. So land is a great example of this. Not well understood, easily mispriced, lots of variables people don't understand. It's very easy to go buy land at fifty cents on the dollar. Another example right now, small businesses. Okay? I'm watching my girlfriend's parents. They've had a septic company that's been super profitable in Ohio for the last thirty years, and they might just have to shut it down because they don't know how to sell it. Businesses like that get shut down and or sold at one or two, maybe three times cash flow all of the time when if there was a a well done system where the businesses were exposed to the masses and the numbers were clear and financing was clear, those would sell at much, much higher multiples, but they don't because the market is grossly inefficient. Think what Ray Kroc did to McDonald's. Think what, the the hedge funds have done with storage units and, mobile home parks in the last ten years. That that's the concept I wanna drive home tonight because it's applicable to both assets and specific markets within assets, and that's how you find opportunity. Speaker 0
Wow. That's, I might have to drive drive up there, fly up there. Speaker 2
So that's not good. Speaker 0
Wow. That's, that's yeah. No. It's it makes a lot of sense. It's it might be, two or three meetings wrapped in one. Or Oh, Speaker 2
yeah. I wanna talk about building too, and I can't fit that in. So it'll just land, and then I'm gonna go granular, how to identify markets, and then big picture, that concept. Speaker 0
Now do you do you sell do you, ever write notes on on the land that you keep? Yeah. Seller finance? Yep. Okay. Gotcha. I know I said two more questions, like, five questions ago, but this is how it goes. Speaker 2
No. We're fine. I got an hour blocked off. Speaker 0
What's one question you wish I'd asked but I haven't asked? Speaker 2
You know, great question because there's one story I wanna tell. The the whole point of this podcast is adversity. And the last slide actually from my talk tonight, I wanna go through that with you. And that is when you listen to me on a podcast or when you listen to BiggerPockets, we sound very well put together, very smart and and and planned and calculated in hindsight, and we always talk about things that go right. And I promise you that building a business is a lot like, imagine you're going up steps and you can't really see because you're in the cloud and someone's punching you in the face from both sides the whole way up. That's what building a business is like. We only sound smart and calculated in hindsight. We're all uncertain as we move forward and things go wrong. So let me let me give you an example of that. So my, primary market out here in Pueblo West, Colorado for years had been my primary market. You had tens of thousands of subdivided lots with utilities in place. It had been neglected by people in Colorado as far as the business side, but as far as the end user, lots of people were moving there. So I was down there having a field day and and still am to some degree. And so flying home from Florida this January, I had already purchased six lots down there, three more under contract. Four of those six lots were under contract to sell, and I was gonna profit between eleven and fourteen per lot and then also had a number of builds lined up for subsequent lots. And all at once, they shut down additional permits and water taps with no warning, nothing. And I I it was the worst oh, it was a terrible day because I was I was flying home. I get to a layover in DC. I have to rush to my next flight. You know how it is when you land and you get all the text and calls units. Well, my phone just blows up, and clearly something is very wrong. And I'm supposed to have those foreclosings in the next week. So I'm expecting, you know, to make almost fifty grand and then also get all that capital back. And just like that, it all shuts down. So I'm sitting there thinking, holy crap. These might be completely useless. They might not turn this back on. I didn't I didn't know. At that same time, I had a nightmare with a rental where a contractor screwed me as a new tenant was moving in. And to add to it, my accountant messed up. I thought I owed an additional twenty grand in taxes. I owed fifty one. So I had to write that check that much. So within the course of a week, those three things happen. Yep. Yep. Those so it's just a massive kick in the teeth. And I smile now because, you know, it's like, at this point, I feel like I can handle anything because that's just one example. But that's the kind that's when you sign up for for starting a business, it it's worth it because at the end of the day, when I wake up, my priorities are my priorities. But you are going to get kicked in the teeth, I will tell. Yeah. Speaker 0
And I think that's really critical. You don't know how. You don't know what it's gonna look like. Right? Yeah. But it is it has helped me too in times where, k, this this really sucks whatever I'm going through, but it's like, wait. You knew things were gonna come at you, so why why are you surprised? Like Yeah. You know? Yep. But so any what's the short version of how you got out of all that? Speaker 2
Got it. Okay. Well, the rental thing was just a day by day, getting other contractors, paying more and handling it. The tax thing, I mean, I'm I'm cautious, so I I had the cash. It was just irritating. The land thing, it worked out okay. It could have been a lot worse. It turned out as as time went on, we got some more information from the metro district. They made it clear. Okay. We are gonna open this back up. There's gonna be a limited amount of taps and at a higher price. So, eventually, I've been able to sell off all those lots. Didn't make nearly as much money as expected. Didn't I I had a certain amount of bills I wanted to have in process. Thankfully, I had paid for a tap and gotten a permit for one the week before, so that was grandfathered in. But Mhmm. So I am way behind on what I intended to accomplish down there. Mhmm. But I did thankfully, you know, I didn't get stuck with all those. I didn't lose all that money. And then I quickly pivoted into Florida. Now I'm doing business in a couple markets in Florida. So, yeah, that that sucked. But, you know, it's just like anything, man. You can cry about it. You can handle it. So I immediately sent mailers out to a different market. Speaker 0
Well and I like how you when you answered that, you you compartmentalize them. I mean, you dealt with each problem kinda separately, one one at a time, and that's how you can work through those things. What markets in in Florida are you you in? Speaker 2
Lehigh Acres. I just sent out mailers to LaBelle, and then Kate Coral, working on getting into. But, man, I will tell you, I was just down there. It just gives me an Speaker 0
excuse to go down there. Speaker 2
K. And there are just subdivision after subdivision after subdivision, probably on the east side too or what yeah. East side too, but I've only explored the west where lots were worth nothing ten years ago. They've gone up ten x in price. There's a friend I mean, there's so much money to be made down there. Oh my gosh. Crazy. Speaker 0
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I don't think it's I don't think it's ending anytime soon, maybe particular markets. But, yeah, we've got a I have a couple rentals. One was a nonperforming loan that turned into a a buy and hold. We rehabbed it from a distance in, in Jacksonville. Speaker 2
Nice. Okay. Speaker 0
And now that's a cash flowing rental that I've got no money in. And, and then we did a build to rent in Ocala. So, you know, I just think, Florida's a a great still a great place to be from a real estate investment standpoint. Speaker 2
Yeah. I I wrote so on my website, I just write little blurbs about what I'm working on and and Follow the Speaker 0
herd. Right? Speaker 2
Yes. But, well, that's the joke. Right? Because, obviously, you don't wanna follow the herd of investors, but following the herd of end users in in market so I'm selling the shovels. That's why I think of it in the Gold Rush. I don't have buy and holds down there. If I wanna buy and hold, well, in Lehigh Acres, it's very easy to bring on new supply. So I would either want a a huge discount or something to change where you couldn't bring on new supply so easily. Right? So I those are two different compartments. Where do I wanna keep property versus where do I wanna just go to make money? I like owning property in very liberal areas because if you operate correctly, everything they do just pushes up the prices and pushes out the competition. Great. I remember when I moved to Colorado, and and I'm I don't consider myself on either side of the coin. I'm in my own little world. I'm apolitical. But I saw liberalism coming in droves, and I said, great. It's gonna push up the prices of my properties. Wonderful. So those are two different compartments where I go to just make money versus where I wanna keep something. So in Pueblo West, two hundred more taps left this year approximately, four hundred next year, and they're done. So now I'm thinking of going and building and keeping some stuff down there. Speaker 0
Got it. So The fall follow the herd is is more of a population. That's where people are moving. Is that is that what you're getting at? Speaker 2
Yeah. That's what I meant. It's tongue in cheek because you don't wanna follow the herd in investing, but that's what I meant. If there's thousands of people moving there with money, that is a great place to go buy and sell land or build houses. Speaker 0
Absolutely. Mhmm. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, we can't know what like you said, we we don't know what the future holds as far as all market conditions or, you know, what the government's gonna do. Or Yeah. But real estate does give usually some kind of warning if you're paying attention. Mhmm. And as you get older than twenty six, I mean, you've you've already got a ton of tools in your tool belt, and and it just, you know, as you're I can't imagine when you're thirty six how many you'll have, and then it's like, I don't care what happens. Mhmm. I'll just pivot. You know? You're you're gonna thrive in any environment. So Speaker 2
Thank you. Speaker 0
Yeah. Anything to add to for our listeners? Speaker 2
Whatever it is you're trying to accomplish, if you haven't gotten started, what's the quickest way to get started and start participating without, you know, maxing out your credit cards or risking your house? That's that's something else. Because people equate those two things. They think jumping into something without all the information is risky. Well, not if you go work for someone in that space or just send out a few mailers with income you can dispose of or what right? With anything and everything, what is the quickest way to test your hypothesis in a low risk with high reward potential sort of means? That's how I think about it, because you won't really learn anything until you start iterating and participating in whatever it is you're trying Speaker 0
to do. Dan Rasmussen (3five thirty three): You got to take action, right? And there's never you can't eliminate risk. And meaning, there's always gonna be risk no matter if you take action or not. I mean, in fact, I think there's big risk in not taking action. Yeah. But that doesn't mean throw caution to the wind. And so, I think you said it more eloquently, but that's, I couldn't agree more. You you gotta be you gotta get out there and make stuff happen. Speaker 2
Mhmm. Speaker 0
But but don't be stupid about it. You know? Yes. So Yep. Awesome. Alright. Dan, this has been really good. We've covered a lot of ground. Can't wait to have you back in in, you know, when you're fifty two. No. I just you've done so much, and you're twenty six. I just just blows my mind. But, Speaker 2
never been able to sit still. Speaker 0
You're clearly an action taker and but but you you're clearly analytical as well. You don't just you also kind of, are are paying attention to what you're doing and taking lessons from the adversity that you've been through and and the successes you've had. You can tell that, you don't just bury your head in the sand, and and, I mean, you clearly, you got you got it going on as far as, you're you're you're an action taker, but you, yeah, I just you're putting out a good vibe. So I really, I think our listeners are gonna really benefit from this. And speaking from speaking of our listeners, where can they find you online? Speaker 2
Yeah. Dan haberkost dot com or dan haberkost Instagram, Facebook. You'll see some business stuff Speaker 0
and then lots of Speaker 2
pictures of mountains in the ocean. Speaker 0
Awesome. You're gonna stay there, or you're gonna move to Florida? Speaker 2
Oh, no. I love Colorado. And I need to find a beach in Florida I can surf. Then, potentially, I'll go spend part Speaker 0
of the Speaker 2
year in Florida. But, no, snowboarding is my favorite thing in the world, hands down. Speaker 0
Awesome. Speaker 2
Yeah. Speaker 0
Well, Dan, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Jamie. Absolutely. And to our listeners out there, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us, and that's your time. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Speaker 1
Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the From Adversity to Abundance podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. That helps others find the show, and we greatly appreciate it. Thanks again for listening, and we'll catch you in the next episode. Speaker 0
Hey there. It's Jamie Bateman. Ever felt boxed in by life's challenges? Dive into my new book, From Adversity to Abundance, inspiring stories of mental, physical, and financial transformation, available now on Amazon. From a former bank robber's redemption to a young entrepreneur's victory over hurdles, these stories are not just inspiration. They're the road maps to your transformation. Whether for you or as a powerful gift to friends and family, especially those who might not tune in to podcasts, this book is a beacon to a life of abundance. Ignite that inner fire and set your course to the life you've imagined. Purchase yours today on Amazon and light the path for someone you love. 
