Bipolar Disorder Can be a Superpower? Entrepreneurship and Mental Health with Andrew DeGood
Episode Details
Transcript
In the cutthroat world of entrepreneurship, success often comes at a cost. But Andrew DeGood's story takes an unexpected turn, revealing a hidden battle that threatened to unravel everything he had worked for. His story is a moving and impactful journey that sheds light on the mental health challenges faced by entrepreneurs.
Jamie Bateman, the host of the From Adversity to Abundance Podcast, delves into Andrew's struggle with Bipolar II Disorder, which went undiagnosed for many years. Andrew's experience of navigating through high-performance periods, coupled with the burden of keeping his condition a secret, resonates with the audience on a deep level. The candid conversation between Jamie and Andrew offers a unique insight into the intersection of entrepreneurship and mental health, highlighting the challenges and the inspiring triumphs. Through Andrew's vulnerability and transparency, the audience gains a profound understanding of the impact of mental health on entrepreneurship, creating a relatable narrative that fosters empathy and understanding.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Mastering Mental Health Challenges in Entrepreneurship: Uncover strategies for thriving amidst challenges.
- Navigating the Impact of Bipolar II Disorder: Understanding and managing its unique effects.
- Advocating for Mental Health: Embracing the power of advocacy for a healthier entrepreneurial community.
- Managing the Emotional Toll of Leading a Company: Building resilience and emotional well-being for successful leadership.
- Exploring the Intersection of Mental Health and Entrepreneurship: Understanding the dynamics to foster personal and professional growth.
In the entrepreneurial world, things can change really fast. Don't compound what might be a problem by creating a much bigger problem. - Andrew DeGood
Books and Resources
Man Enough: Undefining My Masculinity
Ideaflow: The Only Business Metric That Matters
Connect with Andrew DeGood:
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/andrew.degood.9
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/adegood
LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewdegood/
Haven Financial:
https://www.myfinancialhaven.com/jamiebateman/
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Speaker 0
Andrew De Good joins me on this episode, and it's moving and impactful and timely We talk about the mental health challenges that are facing our our country and our world and specifically the entrepreneurial, sub sec sector of of our population. And, We chat a lot about bipolar disorder type one and two and dive into his story about how he went undiagnosed for many, many years and how He performed at a very high level, particularly through his manic periods and how someone in HR when he was at his former job told him, absolutely do not mention anything about this. This was back in two thousand ten. And so he kept it all a secret for over a decade, I think, eleven years. And then about three years ago, he started telling his story And, one of his posts on LinkedIn went viral, and the historian is absolutely resonated with a lot of people. We talk a lot about business and the ups and downs of of business, but particularly in the context of mental health and how Being an entrepreneur can create mental health challenges and people that are prone to having mental health challenges or conditions, disorders tend to be drawn to, entrepreneurship as well. It's jam packed with with practical and inspiring information for sure. Anyone who knows anyone who's dealing with any kind of mental health struggle right now. Honestly, and everyone should listen to this because it it we talk a lot about not just medication, but also what we should all be doing with regard to, staying healthy and keeping our mental fitness in in check and on the up and up. Very, very timely, like I said, Andrew deals with a lot of entrepreneur and he's working on one project that he can't yet talk about and another project that is soon to be, launched, which is dealing, which is supporting particularly men, who are struggling with mental health challenges. So Again, it's this is a needed conversation. And, I'm just thankful that he's decided to be vulnerable and transparent with his story. And thankful that he spent some valuable time with us. Enjoy. Speaker 1
Welcome to the from adversity to abundance podcast. Are you an entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur, then this show is for you. Each week, we bring you impactful stories of real people who have overcome painful human adversity to create a life of abundance. A life of abundance. You are not alone in your struggle. Join us and you will experience the power of true stories and gain practical knowledge from founders who have poverty into prosperity and weakness into wealth. This podcast will encourage you through your health, relationship, and financial challenges So you can become the hero in your quest for freedom. Take ownership of the life you were destined to live. Turn your adversity into abundance. Speaker 0
Welcome everybody to another episode of the from adversity to abundance podcast. I am your host, Jamie bateman, and I'm thrilled today to have with us a special guest, Andrew De Good. Andrew, how are you doing today? Speaker 2
I am fantastic, Jamie. Thanks. Speaker 0
Awesome. We've, we we've been trying to make this happen for a bit now. We've both had issues, and and here we are. I'm I'm pumped that we could connect and bring some value to our listeners. Andrew, you are a tech entrepreneur. You've had some, at least one successful business exit for sure that we're gonna talk about. And you're also someone who openly talks about your challenges and your journey dealing with mental health and specifically bipolar, bipolar disorder. We're gonna we're gonna talk a lot about that and the kind of crossover between entrepreneurship and mental health But why don't you drill in for the listener? What are you up to today? Who are you today? Speaker 2
Yeah. Thanks, Jamie. I I appreciate that. And really excited to be here and be able to talk about not only the entrepreneurship side, but obviously, you know, mental health. So currently today, as you mentioned, I exited canopy financial technology partners. I know that's a mouthful, back in twenty twenty two, and, I spent a little bit of time with another startup, in twenty three, but, ended up stepping away from that one. And so right now, unfortunately, I have one tech project that's in stealth mode, so I can't really talk about it. Speaker 0
Got Speaker 2
it. Sorry for all the secrecy. And the other project that has additionally been in stealth mode, which is the other half, of who I am today, is a men's community, largely based around men's mental health, which we will be launching sometime in March. Which just calls iron tribe. Speaker 0
That's awesome. Yeah. I've been following you. We we chatted a couple months ago, and I I've been following you on social media, particularly LinkedIn. And I just, you're love what you're putting out there. And, it's, I highly recommend the listener go give you a follow for sure. Let's jump into your backstory. I know you and I were chatting briefly beforehand about you know, the purpose of this show and trying to add value to the listener by, discussing adversity in and I know you've been through kind of all three types of adversity that we tend to focus on, on this show. Health, relationship, and financial. You wanna kinda address. I know we're gonna get into the the mental health stuff and, how that has you know, how your journey has and your battles and ups and downs with that have gone. Let's talk about the other two first. Financial and relationship. What what comes to mind when we when I bring up adversity that you've overcome in those two areas? Speaker 2
Yeah. Those are great questions. And I I think I would, say that I they actually somewhat all tied together other, to be honest. So if it's okay, I think I'm gonna actually just jump straight into mental health and and how all of has, and and Speaker 0
and very quickly. Yeah. You know, it's it's, there's no question. They're all related and especially for entrepreneurs. It's hard to to compartmentalize things for sure. So yeah, let's do it. Where do you wanna start? Speaker 2
So I think, you know, in my story, the the first place I always go to is is, seven year old Andrew. So at seven years old was what was my first hypomanic, or mixed state episode, as a result of being bipolar too. Now that was a really long time ago. Sure. And as you can imagine, mental health was not a huge topic in the nineteen eighties. You know, we certainly didn't understand what was going, on back there. Very little was known about bipolar. So Sure. I was really looked at is a very outgoing little kid who had, some pretty significant anger management issues is what everybody believed. So now I would go a another twenty eight years. It would be twenty eight lay years later, Jamie, until I was actually diagnosed, which is in twenty ten. And throughout those twenty eight years, living with undiagnosed bipolar two, created a whole bunch of challenges. So I would later on go on to, have a lot of challenges with what people thought was addiction. At the time as well, which really I was just self medicating, to offset the depression and the hypomania. Related to the bipolar. As you can imagine, that then brings a lot of financial, issues and a lot of ups and downs. And I would I would spend, you know, really I dropped out of college, after about a year and a half just couldn't cope. The bipolar, again, still undiagnosed, having a lot of issues with that. I would go ten years through multiple industries. I was, you know, a bartender a waiter, a food and beverage director. I worked in the car industry as a car salesman. I was a furniture salesman. And it wouldn't be until the early two thousands until I landed into the financial, arena, which would later on, take me into the fintech space. So that presented a lot of challenges in corporate life as well. I I would have these outbursts and it would put a lot of strain on a lot of the relationships Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
That were going on. And, of course, Speaker 0
makes total sense. So your your mental health challenges bled into your financial life and your relationship I mean, and and again, like we've said, it's it's they're not separate. I mean, they're they're everything is everything is related and even mental health, and this is a whole burgeoning part of this field, is, is related to physical health and you know, that we can get into all that later, but it's not like you you can just put mental health on this on a shelf and and it doesn't affect anything else. As you know, it's for sure. So so let's define a couple things. What is bipolar disorder and what is bipolar disorder type two. Speaker 2
Yeah. Great. Thanks for bringing that up, Jamie. So there's, bipolar one and bipolar two effectively. So we'll we'll talk about bipolar kind of at a high level, which is, and you have what are called manic or hypomanic episodes and depressive episodes. So just think of it as a whole bunch of energy and, you know, Yeah. The life of the party on one side and curled up in bed depressed on the other side. And in bipolar one, it can have far greater swing on the what's called manic. Mhmm. Side, and a lot of times it can be very damaging. It can be spending a lots of money, irresponsibly. You know, all sorts of addictive, gambling types of personalities, yeah, gambling, sex addiction, drug addiction. So on so forth, In bipolar one tends to be caught and treated more often because it's on the furthest end of the spectrum. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
Whereas bipolar two is it's a it's Speaker 0
a little more subtle. Speaker 2
Yeah. It's a little more subtle. Yeah. So in my hypomanic stages, you know, I may talk a little bit more. I may get more irritable and have anger outbursts and things like that. They have, like, some some addictive qualities to it. When it's untreated. Bipolar two though interestingly tends to have more depression and more depressive episodes. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
My particular genre of bipolar two, tends to also have a lot of what's called mixed state. And that is what is a where mania or hypomania and depression, crossover. So I will get a level of depression Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
That has an energetic feel to it. So I'm not stuck in bed. Right? So it's not what you would traditionally associate to Right. Speaker 0
You you it's like a it's like a higher energy. Like you said, a higher energy level of depression. So, yeah, you're you're you're you look you don't look depressed, quote unquote, right, to Speaker 2
to the outsider. So the average person on the side. I wouldn't look depressed, but internally, the self talk, the lack of desire, passion. Like, those are very present. Internally. Speaker 0
Yeah. And and for the record, I mean, we just the the normal caveats neither of us are doctors, and we're not giving medical advice, anything like that. We're not we're not, you're more of an expert than I am, but neither of us are mental health experts. And there's and unfortunately, we've dealt with some some some of this in our home in the last twelve to to fifteen months. And so I've I've learned a lot about it as well. That said, it it's ever changing. It it's a we we've only scratched the surface as far as understanding all of this. So so we have a long way to go neither of us are sitting here saying this is the final word on on mental health or, you know, or or we know or we know everything about it, but That's really interesting. So type two is a little bit harder to diagnose, I would say. Right? Because it's less Speaker 2
less extreme Speaker 0
in some ways. And then there's sort of the mixed bag of mania and depression simultaneously, it sounds like. Just so is there, like, is a is a a phase or an episode? Does that last, you know, a day or or six months? Speaker 2
Or I can yeah. So the other thing that's kinda tough about bipolar, both one and two is it's it's very unique every person with bipolar is like a snowflake, if you will. Yeah. And so I've known folks with bipolar too who have very, very depressive episodes where they can't get out of bed. I've never had that, so I can't even unnecessarily relate to it. Is terms of cycling, even the cycling is very, very individual. So, mine typically tends to be a couple of months. On the depressive side, a couple of months on the hypomanic side. Although within those, you can still have your kind of ups and downs. Yeah. Now that being said, mine is obviously diagnosed and treated today. So it looks very, very differently than obviously an undiagnosed untreated. Speaker 0
No. And I it just I do appreciate you you chatting about this and being open about it. It's it's, you know, we we've I'm sure it isn't easy. And maybe it's gotten easier to talk about, since you've you've come out with this with your own story, but it's such an important I mean, we're such an important topic. We have a mental health crisis on our hands. And especially in the in the world of entrepreneurs, there's there's a higher rate of mental health challenges within the entrepreneurial group than in most than the quote unquote average or non entrepreneurial, section of of people. Speaker 2
Yeah. And interestingly enough, some of the most famous entrepreneurs that know are bipolar. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
So Steve Jobs was bipolar. Richard Branson Speaker 0
is bipolar. Speaker 2
Elon Musk, is bipolar. So Yeah. It's so bipolar folks are drawn to entrepreneurial pursuits because of that hypomanic or manic, we get, like, super tunnel vision. Speaker 0
So Speaker 2
we can become hyper hyper focused on a thing. Speaker 0
And our Speaker 2
brain moves at such speed. And we have We also have a higher level re resilience. So when you have to when you spend your entire life going through these ups and downs, it actually gain or or builds a significant amount of resilience, which I think for everybody who's listening under stands. Like, there's one key thing to entrepreneurship. It's it's Speaker 0
Well, that's so true and focus. I mean, those are two critical things, especially nowadays in today's, you know, today's world where we're getting bombarded with so much information. There's so many shiny objects Mhmm. As an entrepreneur. Oh, there's a business I wanna start. You know, focus has become, I think, even more critical to success. So the fact that in your your sort not sort of, but your manic phases, you're more focused and you have more energy and more clarity and more resilience. Like you said, I mean, that is a superpower if you're only looking at it in the with that Absolutely. Speaker 2
That lens. Yeah. There's no question about it. I mean, there's there's the old adage of I hate, you know, of I hate being bipolar. It's awesome. Because to your point, like, there are sides of it that are super powers. Speaker 0
You know, Speaker 2
and people have asked me this question. If I could take away your bipolar tomorrow, would you let me? And the answer is absolutely not, which confuses the heck out of people because they're Speaker 0
like, where? Speaker 2
Like, You talked about all these terrible sides to it. And I'm like, yeah, but the great parts for me outweigh those sides of it. Speaker 0
Oh, that's that's great. You can see it that way. That's awesome. And we had the bipolar general, Greg Martin on our on our show. A little while ago. Yeah. He was he's fantastic. And he talked about what a what a superpower when he was deployed and that that his his mania was that he was able to accomplish so much. So that was surprising to me to to hear that at that time. It's, you know, I I you think of, oh, bipolar is all bad. Everything's all bad. No. It's more a matter of understanding it as best we can and managing it and working with it. And, obviously, you know, you know that about that a lot more than I do. So so, you know, your backstory again, so so it sounds like you created did create a lot of ups and downs and and a lot of challenges with regard to finance your financial health and your relationship health and, what looked like in addiction, you said which led to financial challenges. And, so walk us through kind of, I guess, the just say say the last five or ten years of your professional career. What did that look like? Speaker 2
Yeah. So diagnosed in twenty ten. And the, I was actually doing a startup with someone else the time, not my own. I just I just happened to be the I think it was employee fifteen or something. And I got diagnosed. I actually self diagnosed. I I had an outburst at work. I was put on, leave, unpaid leave. And as you can imagine freaking out, you know, I was thirty something, had just moved my entire family across the country for a new startup idea. Wow. So terrifying to say the least. Speaker 0
Sure. Speaker 2
And the very first person I ever told, in the HR department said don't ever tell anybody that again. And this just speaks to for folks to understand. In twenty ten, we did not talk about mental health. Like, just not like it is today. Speaker 0
Yeah. And that's to be fair. That's not that long ago. Right? I mean, it's we're not talking nineteen ten. Eighteen. So we're talking two thousand ten. Speaker 2
Two thousand ten. Fourteen years Speaker 0
fourteen years ago, really. Yeah. Speaker 2
Yeah. And I but I wanted a seat at the table. Right? I had, you know, at the at that point in time, I was very focused on climbing you know, the corporate ladder. I was, you know, in my, you know, thirties, earlier thirties, you know, I had my first director role was was really doing well career wise. My home life was a bit of a dumpster fire, but, that's a totally different story. So, yeah, so I got diagnosed. I didn't talk to anybody about it. Yeah. Let me just briefly. I'm sorry Speaker 0
to sorry to jump into the the HR rep, I'm I'm guessing they were trying to help you. Speaker 2
Oh, absolutely. They had nothing but my best interest at heart because they knew if I came out and I was public about this, that it would be career suicide. Right. Because back then, it was. I mean, did you remember it's so bipolar is still considered a disability. I don't see it that way. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
Personally, mine. Yeah. But technically, we do fall into that category. And She just knew, like, where I was headed and what I wanted to do. Sure. And she knew nobody was gonna give me a seat at the big kids table. Speaker 0
Got it. Speaker 2
If I was the quote unquote crazy one because again Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
Twenty ten. Speaker 0
Yeah. It makes sense now that, you know, that and then it makes sense that you would listen to that advice. I mean, why would you why would you just ruin your own career? Speaker 2
That's absolutely right. Speaker 0
Okay. So And then so you have an outburst at work and you're essentially sent not essentially. You're sent home on unpaid leave and then what happens. Speaker 2
Yeah. So that's where I started doing a lot of digging. You know, I was I was on Google, like, crazy trying to figure out, like, what the heck's wrong with me? Like, I didn't wanna be this way. Right? Like, Sure. It just I knew something was wrong. I just didn't know what. And so I went to, psychiatrist for the first time in my entire life. Mhmm. And I basically I was like, listen, I think I'm this thing. I think I'm bipolar too. Like, I've read all the things. And, basically, he was like, yeah, that that checks. And at that point in time, I went on a mood stabilizer, Lemictal. Speaker 0
Okay. Speaker 2
Which which didn't okay job. At that point in time, the drugs were still not very well understood for bipolar. Yeah. The way that they are today my medication protocol looks very, very different now. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
But the biggest problem was I didn't talk to anyone. And so, like, a good little gen xer, I listened to my doctor, and I took my pill, and I thought, This is as good as it gets. Speaker 0
Right. And and and and let me just check because this because again, this has been front and center for us at home recently. Just this is my own take. Right? I I'm not anti medication by any stretch. But I do think there's a risk that we run-in in prescribing these medications and saying, and acting like that's gonna solve all of problems because then you don't and I know and I follow I follow you and and and I I know you have clean eating habits and and other things I love to get into. Here, but, you shouldn't stop there. The medication is not gonna be the end all be all. So I I so to me, that's the risk we run. And and and the doctor gives you a prescription and then says, good luck. It there's so much more to this than just the prescription. Is that fair? Speaker 2
Absolutely. So one of the things I always say is you can't out medicate lifestyle protocols and you can't out lifestyle medication protocols. You Okay. For me. Yeah. Absolutely. For me, I absolutely have to have both. And what can be very frustrating for some folks is getting the medication protocol is is difficult. It takes time. I, unfortunately, had not advocated for myself because I had gone into hiding. So I would actually go about eleven years on what I would tell you today was the wrong med medication protocol, I would also go eleven years with effectively no lifestyle protocol. So I wouldn't understand why it's important for me to have a predominantly meat based keto diet or why cold plunges are extremely important for me. Did one this morning. Of, you know, the the practice of meditation, why sleep is like the absolute number one thing. Right? So that there's all of these pieces that go into it. So, yeah, a hundred percent, you gotta have both sides. Speaker 0
Yeah. Absolutely. And I I recall, it wasn't for me, but, being in, you know, a psychiatric facility last year and and was, you know, dark and, the the the food offered there was extremely unhealthy. And so there's there's not much sunlight going on. There's no exercise. I mean, all these things that we all need, whether we've, whether we have these conditions or not. Speaker 2
But I need it more than you. Speaker 0
Well, yeah, that's fair. That's fair. But we all need it. Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Speaker 0
Okay. And, I mean, you know, and Let's be honest. There's still a lot we don't know about this. You might, you know, can it be prevented? I I don't know. Probably not. You know, as far are you born with it? I I guess so. Right? But there's still a nebulous part of this this whole mental health thing. And so All I'm saying is whether you've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder type two or not, you should engage in these healthy living Speaker 2
Absolutely. Habits that Speaker 0
that you're talking about. Speaker 2
Yeah. I'd recommend that life all protocol to anyone, for sure. Speaker 0
Absolutely. So okay. So you go eleven years with essentially just not correct me if I'm wrong, but you're kind of perpetuating the the problems that are, that you have, and you're not you're on the wrong medication, and and you're not living a healthy lifestyle. Is that is that what I'm Speaker 2
saying? I I always describe it as I had been walking along in a ditch on the side of the road. And somebody handed me a Geo Prism. And for anybody who's not a gen x or a boomer, that was a really crappy car back in the nineties. Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
And I thought, oh my gosh, this is so wonderful, but what I didn't realize was everybody else was driving a Porsche nine eleven GT. Right? And so here I am just sort of limping along, like I said, like, thinking this is as good as it's gonna get. Sure. But, yeah, you're a hundred percent right. Still having some struggles, but really still so hyper focused on this climb. To the c suite. That's what I really wanted was Yeah. I thought that was what was gonna validate Andrew and that once I got there, I would be happy and that would solve all my problems. Yeah. Sort of situation. And then the Speaker 0
Yes. And then Speaker 2
the pandemic happened. Speaker 0
And then the pandemic happened. Yeah. That, that was a big one. So so talk talk us through the last few years, of your Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0
So Have things gone for you. Speaker 2
So in twenty twenty, I had, in twenty nineteen, I was helping to do a a startup division within an existing company, out in South Southern California, was going amazing. You know, we really built out a fantastic team, and then the pandemic hit. And I got on a plane and I flew home. It was the morning after they canceled the NBA season. I'll never forget. Speaker 0
Oh, yeah. That that was huge. That's when I realized that was this is a big deal. Speaker 2
As well. I was like, glad that Adam Silver is the one who has decided that, like, the pandemic is real. Speaker 0
And I don't even really follow the NBA. It was just like, Yeah. Speaker 2
That's right. Speaker 0
That's when I realized it was this is this is a big deal. Speaker 2
So So, you know, a couple of months into the pandemic, the the PE firm behind the company, you know, realized they needed to cut costs, you know, and understandably. So we didn't know what was going on with the secondary market. Sure. We didn't know how long this was gonna last. So we ended up parting ways, in the summer of twenty twenty. And shortly thereafter, I had a friend who called me up and said, hey, we should start our own company. And I was like, you're crazy. You realize Speaker 0
the Speaker 2
world is in lockdown. Right? And so we would spend about a month talking through it. And, by September of twenty twenty, we just decided, hey, let's give this a go. We went out, did our pitch deck, raised our first, you know, seed capital round. Shockingly fast. It was literally a whirlwind. I think it was about three, four weeks, from, you know, first pitch deck to actually, you know, having secured the seed round. So we incorporated the company September twenty ninth twenty twenty. It was also on my youngest son's birthday, so I'll never forget that one. Speaker 0
Nice. Speaker 2
And, we would you know, go into stealth mode at that point for, roughly four months. Give or take three, four months. At that point. And, you know, I can tell you in that stealth mode period, you know, there were multiple things that made me think Oh, gosh. We're not gonna be able to do this. Oh my god. We're gonna burn through the seed money and Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
Plane is never gonna take off. I think that's one of the thing. If you've got a budding entrepreneur's listening is being that unicorn seven, eight, nine digit exit on an entrepreneur. Like, you got the same chances of being Patrick Maholds. And I think we don't talk enough about this. Right? Speaker 0
A hundred percent. It's a it's so the odds are very much stacked against you for for successful to to run any successful business, honestly. Speaker 2
Yeah. It's and and so I think a lot of people jump into this thinking, like, oh, like, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this thing. And it's, you know, I don't know the numbers on it, Jamie, but it's less than five percent, I'm sure, of of people who ever found their own company, even Yeah. Or who exit. And, like, So so Speaker 0
last week's episode that came out a week ago from from today, we talked he goes into the numbers actually Speaker 2
and and Speaker 0
it's it's very and so if you if you miss that episode, go back and listen to that one. Speaker 2
Yeah. For sure. Speaker 0
Very, very very difficult to have to found a a successful business and then exit it. So, I mean, yeah, and So tons of ups and downs, entrepreneurship is is not easy. I don't wanna discourage anyone. You know, but it's not it's not what you see on social media all the time for sure. Speaker 2
Absolutely. Now that being said, I love it. And I thing I'm about to do. And I'm about to do it again. Why I'm not sure some days. You know, this does Speaker 0
Oh, I'm sorry. I was just what kind of business was this that I don't know if we we said, Speaker 2
Yeah. So it was a tech enabled financial services. So it's effectively kinda like a data validation oracle for secondary market, securitizations. I know that all sounds fancy, but it was, you know, cleaning up data, assessing risks, on mortgage portfolios, basically. Got it. So, you know, this really brings me. I will I will tell you if my one tidbit of advice that I always give to entrepreneurs, and I'm I'm fortunate enough to to volunteer in an entrepreneur ship high school we have here locally as as well as work with some active, entrepreneurs And that is get a co founder. Now I had a co founder. I had an amazing co founder, John Levinek, is a very brilliant and talented attorney, out of the Connecticut area, and we'd known each other for about two decades. You know, My wife is a solopreneur. Speaker 0
She Speaker 2
is a clinical psychologist. She owns two practices that are very successful. One in Chicago, one here in Fort Wayne. And guess what? When my wife is having a bad day, like, there's no one else to pick up the ball and, you know, take care of whatever it is that's needed to be taken care of. And John was huge. It was not only was it the support of John and I to just be able to be like, dude, this is tough. Yeah. Absolutely. Have those conversations because entrepreneurship can be very lonely also. Speaker 0
One hundred percent. It's yeah. I yeah. And and this is not, you know, to have a pity party for me. That's not the intent, but, absolutely. I mean, I'm busy. I'm I don't say that to to trust me. I'm not saying it to brag. I Speaker 2
have Yeah. No. I I have no idea. Speaker 0
I'm I'm, you know, I'm busy and have a lot of calls and meetings and all this stuff. And But, absolutely, there there's not too many people that can really, you know, unless you have a a business partner, cofounder, or you plug yourself into a group of entrepreneurs, you know, be intentional about spending at least some time that way. No. Most people don't understand what you're going through. So it can be a very very lonely, you know, situation, and you're you're constantly dealing with problems. That's what you're that's what you're saw that's that's what what an entrepreneur and a truly a leader is is you're dealing with solving problems. Otherwise, there'd be no purpose of your company. Speaker 2
You don't deal with the good stuff. Like, that's what I always say. Like entrepreneurs, Elon Musk love him or hate him, actually, talks about this of where, like, the seat like, there's a funnel that goes to the CEO. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just all the it's all the bad stuff. Speaker 0
Absolutely. Like, Speaker 2
the good stuff goes to other people. Like, we just, like, process through all the bad crap. And when it's just you, Like, it can be very difficult. Speaker 0
So Absolutely. Speaker 2
Yeah. So we were, you know, we were really fortunate. You know, we we we caught all the right breaks. And this is the other piece that I talk about. Like, you you've gotta be talented. You've gotta be hard work working, and you also have to be lucky. Like, people don't talk about the lucky factor enough. Yes. I feel like. Speaker 0
Well, not not not when they're successful. They don't. Speaker 2
Right. Like, there's tons of guys smarter than Elon Musk, like, it's true. It's but the dude's lucky. Right? Speaker 0
That's true. He's got Speaker 2
all the other components, but he's also lucky. So You know, we would we would be really fortunate. You know, we would, Flagstar Bank would actually be our first client, that we snatched up in early twenty twenty one. And we would go through rocketship growth. So we, would ten x the size of the company and five months. So we went from thirteen employees to a hundred and thirty employees, in a five month span. We're both insane growth. Speaker 0
Man, Grant Cardon has nothing on you. Speaker 2
No. It's not huge, but, you know, it's not huge for a company size, but but that sort of rocketship And it was fantastic. We had one of the best oh, actually, no. We had the best culture I've ever been a part of. Was so, so fortunate. And it was huge. But it definitely, had still a little bit of a toll on my mental health. So the the hypomania would lead to not enough sleep at periods of time, which would cause to, you know, a fair amount of irritability. Mhmm. But again, John was really there for me, and that was where that co founder component was so important. And so John really made sure it didn't bleed into the rest of the company. And really helped me out quite a bit. So What would be the biggest change ever would come in April of twenty twenty one, and that was where I decided through a you know, bunch of events that occurred that I needed to come out about being bipolar. And so that set off, you know, a LinkedIn post that would go extremely viral that was entitled. This is what bipolar looks like. And I was amazed at the outpouring of support and people who were just shocked. They were like, I thought you would have this easy life know, this this path of gold. Yeah. Sorry. Right. Speaker 0
Yeah. Must be nice to be Andrew. Speaker 2
Right. Exactly. And I was like, not so much, guys. Right. So, you know, that but even at that point in time, I'll tell you, Jamie, I wasn't I wasn't as focused on advocating for myself. And that's gonna be the big thing I would tell to people is a takeaway is you have to advocate for your own mental health. I have, since that point in time after, you know, we exited Canopy, I got deep dive into my own mental health. And I started doing a lot of research. Right? And I use, I actually use large language models like perplexity to teach myself more about my own bipolar. And that would go on to really give me a huge journey in the lifestyle protocol and the the medication protocol. Speaker 0
Yeah. Well, I I just I love that point because, I mean, that is a theme on our on our show across almost every episode is just taking ownership of your situation and and advocating for yourself. That is not to say you're all by yourself, you're alone. No one else cares, you know, and and I mean, you already talked about the importance teamwork and a co founder and those connections and peep having other people you can rely on. But at the end of the day, the medical system is not gonna not gonna advocate for you, at least the way it's set up, you know, now. No. Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah. You're right. Speaker 0
So you've gotta advocate for yourself. I couldn't agree more. Speaker 2
And you could I mean, unfortunately, sometimes, you know, there's not We have this belief that every doctor is, like, a top tier doctor, and that's just not that's just not the case. No. So You know, canopy was on this, like, high flying, like, all is good. Growth like crazy. We would do an additional fundraise, in late twenty twenty one, and move into a stage to get an offer for acquisition. And it was gonna be it was four x from our initial evaluation. So in less than a year to four x the value of your company. Pretty impressive. And we were stoked. Like, we've hit. Well, you know, we're the pink unicorn in under a year sort of situation. Right? And then twenty twenty two would happen. And the markets would go south real fast. And the Fed would step in And our four x acquisition would go and disappear. And then the Russia Ukraine war would break out in March, which had a tremendous effect on the secondary markets. Yeah. And honestly, Jamie, it felt like twenty twenty all over again. And it was like, ugh. Wow. And it would start down a path of layoffs at first. And I will tell, again, for any budding entrepreneur there. I came from the corporate world. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
I have been laid off. I have laid off for other people. And then I have laid off when it's my own company. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 2
There is nothing more emotionally Mhmm. Just devastating than than having to lay someone off who and you can probably relate to this. Speaker 0
I Speaker 2
can't. I felt personally responsible for those people. I don't mean this This may sound wrong, but I viewed every employee of that company as, like, a child of mine. Like, they were my responsibility. Their family was my responsibility. And, I mean, Jamie, I Well, it's broke down in yeah. Speaker 0
Yeah. Broke down in tears. I mean, it's part of the reason part of the appeal for a lot of entrepreneurs in in in hiring people is you wanna, you know, rising tide lifts all all ships. Right? So you wanna help your team out along the way. You want your your employees to be successful financially. Right? So Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely. Speaker 0
The converse you know, the flip side is, okay, this didn't go well. Now now I'm letting you go. Yeah. Yeah. I've had I've been there is not is not fun. I know we're we are, pushing our time here. So what did they What did the the exit look like? About twenty twenty two. Speaker 2
Yeah. So twenty twenty two continued to be a fight on the financial side. It was it was a struggle. It it never got any any easier. And then in late twenty twenty two, we really were in a position of you know, where we needed the company to be acquired. We were fortunate enough, to find a competitor, who wanted to acquire the organization, largely, for the client base. And for the reputation that we had built. And so, would have been late December. We signed the papers, to have the company acquired as part of that. I actually stepped away, pretty much immediately because It's fairly duplicative for the organization that was acquiring. And again, not in a great market. And so I would step away from that. And like I mentioned, I would just spend, you know, time focused on me and trying to figure out my own bipolar, my journey. And then really what was next for me, which is you know, landed me to where we are today and Speaker 0
Yeah. Speaker 2
A place I'm super excited. I'm as pump for twenty twenty four is any year I've ever been. I will tell you that. Speaker 0
That's awesome. Yeah. We're gonna as we wrap up, I wanna find out more about that. I had a Kevin Dahlstrom has been on the show. He for the listener. He's been on twice. And a similar story with regard to the timing of his exit, it was a fintech called swell. And, it was looking amazing. And then twenty twenty two happened, and he was able to exit, you know, for for a profit, but it wasn't the the grand slam he would Right. Speaker 2
It wasn't the pink unicorn he had hoped. Speaker 0
Ex exactly. So, now tell us more before my the rapid fire tell us more about what you're up to today. Dive into that for us if you would. Speaker 2
Yeah. So there's kind of two sides to me today. One is I still just have a deep love and excitement and passion around emerging tech. So am working on something over on the tech side, that is in stealth mode. So, unfortunately, we can't really talk about that at all. The other piece, is men's mental health became really important to me, over the last, you know, four to five months. I've had a whole series of of events that the universe just kept shoving me into that path. And so I'm working, we'll launch in March with a men's community that's really focused on combating a lot of the things that are going on of this epidemic of not only loneliness that we're seeing with men. But obviously, all the things that we know, when you look at the stats, you know, it's an epidemic really in this country. You know, men are responsible for a hundred percent of mass shootings. Eighty five to ninety five percent of homicides. We make up eighty percent of suicides. Seventy this is crazy once seventy to ninety percent of all divorces are initiated by women. If the woman is college educated, it's ninety percent. And so Wow. We just knew that something needed to be done and a me and a group of gentlemen. We just we were tired of everybody talking about the numbers. And we realized that people really needed connection and transparency. And so Yeah. So that's what this is gonna all be about and, you know, look look towards next month or March. We'll start having some stuff coming out about it. Speaker 0
That's really, really good. Yeah, it's absolutely needed. It's specifically for men like you, like you've said and like you're focused on. That's There's a huge need there. So, unfortunately, there's a huge need there, but I'm glad you're doing something about it. Yeah. It's a it's a I'm I'm learning more and more about it every day. And so the crossover that the high numbers in entrepreneurship. Do you think do you think that I I know you said people with mental health challenges, conditions are drawn to entrepreneurship. Do you think that being an entrepreneur can lead to mental health challenges or episodes? Is Speaker 2
it kinda Yeah. I do. Yeah. Yeah. I I think if you don't understand the stress that you're getting into and if you don't have support mechanisms and and the psychology around finances and things like that, it can absolutely lead to some damage. Speaker 0
For sure. I'm looking at a a graphic on a visual capital capitalist. I know you're not supposed to refer to something that people and see on an audio, presentation, but, mental health and entrepreneurs, and it's got a a really easy to interpret, graphic that shows addiction and bipolar specific depression, ADHD addiction, and bipolar, and how and the high rates, among the entrepreneur group out there. So we recommend the listener, check that out. Alright. I I know we're we're about out of time here, Andrew. This has been really, really good. What's one thing that people misunderstand about you? What is Speaker 2
one thing people Even though I'm an extroverted extrovert, I, oftentimes, have a difficult time if I'm in a situation with a large group of people that I don't know. So, like, if you set if you sent me to a conference where I don't know anyone, It's a very intimidating environment for me. Speaker 0
Got it. What is a book that you could recommend? I know you have several back there behind you. Speaker 2
I I apologize. You're not gonna get just one from me. So, the number one business book that every entrepreneur should read is idea flow by Jeremy utley who used to be the head of the d school. It, at Stanford, number two, and that one is behind me. Number two is also behind me, which is man enough by Justin Dony, and I would say that that every man, who's struggling with masculinity and what that looks like for for them. Should a hundred percent read that book. And lastly, I would say anybody who has someone in their life who's bipolar, who thinks they might be bipolar, who who is bipolar, should a thousand percent read the book by Chris Hagen, called bipolar Not so much. It does the best job I've ever seen of really laying out what's bipolar one what's bipolar two? What are the important lifestyle, protocols and what are the, important medication protocols? And really lays out the why in all of those things. Speaker 0
Okay. It's really good. I'll throw one more. I don't know if you've read this one, but, brain energy by Chris Palmer. I did not get Speaker 2
this one. Speaker 0
Yeah. He he he's really trying to it's not quite as tactical as what you just talked about with the that that book, but it's more he's trying to change the way we approach mental health. As a as a culture and as a medical community specifically and tie in. Basically, the the gist of it is that everything starts with the mitochondria and that he's not saying trust me, he's not saying mental health is a made up thing or mental health disorders are not real. He's saying that how all of these things are the physical, mental, spiritual, all of it is is connected, and that you know, the neurologists in the world need to be speaking with the mental health professional, psychiatrists, and psychologists, and and and kind of general practitioners, etcetera, that there's a there that we need to approach this from a more holistic Speaker 2
funner. Yeah. Speaker 0
So brain energy is the one I'll I'll throw out there. Speaker 2
I'm gonna have to read that one. Speaker 0
It does kinda leave you with. Okay. What do I do in my, you know, what do I do now? You know, if if we're dealing with this tactically, but I love what he's doing, big picture wise. Andrew, what's one question that I haven't asked you that you wish I had? Speaker 2
One question that you haven't asked me. I don't know. I feel like there are there there are so many Speaker 0
covered a lot. Anything you wanna anything you wanna chat about before we sign off? Speaker 2
No. I mean, I think again that just, you know, we've got any budding entrepreneurs. There's there's a couple of things to remember One, I I always recommend to everybody that that you have a co founder. Number two is is understanding that that it's a grind, and you've you've gotta love the journey. If you're expecting windfalls of money, you're you're gonna be good chance you might be disappointed. Yeah. And the last one I will tell you is someone who thought he was gonna have a gigantic exit and then has the carpet ripped under them. Fortunately, I didn't make any bad decisions, but I've heard of a lot of people who, Speaker 0
you Speaker 2
know, they they counted their, their eggs before they hatched. And that's that's an important reminder is in the entrepreneurial world, things can change really fast. Really, really fast. Speaker 0
So Very true. Now you and don't compound what might be a problem by creating a a much bigger problem. The other thing I'll grow in is what you said earlier about advocating for yourself on the mental health side. But that was a key key takeaway for me as well. Andrew, where can our listeners reach out to you online? Speaker 2
Really the place that I am, Jamie, almost all the time is LinkedIn. It's the only social media platform that I use a lot. I do, speak largely, on my page about, men's mental health, and it's just literally simply Andrew did. I I think I might be the only pretty good on LinkedIn. So I'm pretty easy to find on that front. And if any listeners, you know, any follow-up questions they have for me, I'm always open to new connections and just shoot me a DM on there. Speaker 0
Fantastic. This has been really, really good. I appreciate everything you're doing. And like I said, I've been following you on LinkedIn and it's all really good stuff, and I wish you nothing but the best in the future. And to the listener out there, thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us. And that is your time. Thanks everyone. Take care. Speaker 1
Thank you for spending your most valuable resource with us. Your time If you like the show, please share it with your friends and fellow podcast listeners. One entrepreneur at a time, we can change the world. See you next time 
